Bill Mason Images wrote:
One of the problems is that models don't report this stuff to the police. Any photographer that touches a model inappropriately (without the model's permission) is committing assault. If the police are notified and charges brought against them, these photographers would hopefully be shut down, fined and/or jailed. I know of one photographer that does this regularly, at least once with a minor...with the girl's mother in the next room!

I heard this just this morning from a model in the Philly area

Click Hamilton wrote:
A girl keeps sending me an IM asking for a photo shoot TFBJ, finished with a TFF.

Is that like an attack or inappropriate touching of some sort?


Undecided In San Diego

Depends on if you want it or not.

Bill Mason Images wrote:
One of the problems is that models don't report this stuff to the police. Any photographer that touches a model inappropriately (without the model's permission) is committing assault. If the police are notified and charges brought against them, these photographers would hopefully be shut down, fined and/or jailed. I know of one photographer that does this regularly, at least once with a minor...with the girl's mother in the next room!

That's probably why not a lot of people take this as seriously as they should.  These things are not reported for whatever reason.  In a 9-5 job if the person hiring you/boss were to grope you or harass you in that way they would be fired/sued or whatever.  It's very sad that reports are not made and action not taken against the culprets.

Colegrove Photography wrote:
Never. Never. Never.
Go to a shoot as a model alone
or shoot as a photographer alone.
That's the rule. Don't be dumb.

The guy that wasted that model in L.A. (I guess that was maybe 10 years back) was a faily well known photographer and aquainted with the model too.

On the other hand, you could be sitting on the shitter in a public airport and get wasted by a random stranger, but you don't insist on having an escort there. The whole escort thing is purely a personal preference and I hope most models don't live the paranoid life that reading threads on MM alone would lead too.

Yes, there are perverts hanging out on the Internet. Shocking. So take whatever steps you feel you need to filter them out of your life. But be a little realistic. Use your intuition. Do a little research before you go to a photo session with someone you've never worked with.

It's really not that hard.

Anyone can meet their doom at the hands of another human being at any time, unexpectedly. That doesn't mean we should all be paranoid all the time. That's no way to live.

Trevor Snyder wrote:

On the other hand, you could be sitting on the shitter in a public airport and get wasted by a random stranger, but you don't insist on having an escort there. The whole escort thing is purely a personal preference and I hope most models don't live the paranoid life that reading threads on MM alone would lead too.

Yes, there are perverts hanging out on the Internet. Shocking. So take whatever steps you feel you need to filter them out of your life. But be a little realistic. Use your intuition. Do a little research before you go to a photo session with someone you've never worked with.

It's really not that hard.

Anyone can meet their doom at the hands of another human being at any time, unexpectedly. That doesn't mean we should all be paranoid all the time. That's no way to live.

OH GREAT! Now I will never go in an airport restroom!

Angel Renee wrote:
That's probably why not a lot of people take this as seriously as they should.  These things are not reported for whatever reason.  In a 9-5 job if the person hiring you/boss were to grope you or harass you in that way they would be fired/sued or whatever.  It's very sad that reports are not made and action not taken against the culprets.

Well on here it's just not that simple. Not claiming someone has attacked you and not have any proof is a difficult thing to prove and it's not solely about a model lack of reporting this. It has alot to do with what is real and what isn't. Similar to the example that I gave about how anyone can be anyone online. People do it and lie all of the time.

Now if the model or photographer can show or have proof of what has happened via police report, then we have something.

Think about how many people have gotten caught up in those crazy occults and end up dead. Jim Jones and the Wacom Texas incident.

Legacys 7 wrote:

Well on here it's just not that simple. Not claiming someone has attacked you and not have any proof is a difficult thing to prove and it's not solely about a model lack of reporting this. It has alot to do with what is real and what isn't. Similar to the example that I gave about how anyone can be anyone online. People do it and lie all of the time.

Now if the model or photographer can show or have proof of what has happened via police report, then we have something.

Think about how many people have gotten caught up in those crazy occults and end up dead. Jim Jones and the Wacom Texas incident.

Waco, not Wacom The crazies have always been with us.

Legacys 7 wrote:

Well on here it's just not that simple. Not claiming someone has attacked you and not have any proof is a difficult thing to prove and it's not solely about a model lack of reporting this. It has alot to do with what is real and what isn't. Similar to the example that I gave about how anyone can be anyone online. People do it and lie all of the time.

Now if the model or photographer can show or have proof of what has happened via police report, then we have something.

Think about how many people have gotten caught up in those crazy occults and end up dead. Jim Jones and the Wacom Texas incident.

I'm not talking about doing anything on here.  If you are in that situation and you are groped/fondled etc.  You should immediately stop the shoot and go report it to the police.  That way at least there is a police report.  Not wait till later and go on MM and out someone and start that big ordeal where the model looks bad.

Trevor Snyder wrote:

Waco, not Wacom The crazies have always been with us.

I was talking about the Wacom tablets. Ok I'm lying. And yes that is kind of my point, but more of how people can be very decieving and gullable. Male and female.

Lexloco wrote:
I am still waiting for a model to tell me about a photographer she met on MM and went to shoot with (without an escort) and was attacked.

There was a fairly popular model on here 2 nights ago... Who posted that a photographer from here tried to rape her. She made about 15 posts. The photographer immediately changed his profile, deleted all his pictures. And then they both got banned..

Angel Renee wrote:

I'm not talking about doing anything on here.  If you are in that situation and you are groped/fondled etc.  You should immediately stop the shoot and go report it to the police.  That way at least there is a police report.  Not wait till later and go on MM and out someone and start that big ordeal where the model looks bad.

I didn't say that you were talking about doing anything on here. But my point is what the topic is all about, models who have been attacked on here by other members.

Some models and photographers view it as wrong when others don't take the report serious and the others view it as always getting two sides to a story. I addressed that if a model or a photographer have proof and show it on here, then he or she will be taken serious.

Lexloco wrote:
I have enjoyed reading all the threads about the escort question.   But I have yet to read a post where a model tells a story about being attacked, robbed, raped whatever.  I  have read about them being afraid or of a photographer acting "creepy" or touching them inappropriately.  I would like to hear some real stories of models who went to a shoot and had something terrible happen.

Google Linda Sobeck

But as with anything, there are always issues of bad photographers, good photographers, bad models, good models, and also bad escorts and good escorts.  I have know people in all of these categories.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Linda Sobeck

Google Timothy McVey, Benedict Arnold, the Unibomber.  There are always exceptions to the rule and to "normal" people in society that go bad.  Poodles bite more often than Pit Bulls, stingrays are now man-killers.

Maya Lei wrote:
I check for tags resembling: can't wait to work with you again, thanks for the shoot, you're great and fabulous, etc...

And serial and timely emails.

Confirmed with a phone call.

*knock on wood* works for internet dating too...lol

I'm glad that you mentioned "The Phone Call"

Somewhere along the line, you need to talk to the person that you're gonna be alone with.

Tikeya wrote:
In the past, I've seen "warning" threads posted by models with the intention of warning other models, and then there would be at least one MMer who responds with "I don't believe you"....."Well then, why don't you tell us this photographer's name?" etc.  Well outing isn't allowed on the forums...PMs can be sent to get the details.  A few times I've even seen the photographer of the story post to the thread, claiming that the model is a liar, and the whole thing just gets ugly.

We had an example of that the other night with a model and photographer who seem to no longer be on this website. It was an "outing" thread which is against the rules set for this websites forum.  It does not mean that we have enough information to judge anyone based on posts made in this public forum although quite often people do!

Colegrove Photography wrote:
Never. Never. Never.
Go to a shoot as a model alone
or shoot as a photographer alone.
That's the rule. Don't be dumb.

The guy that wasted that model in L.A. (I guess that was maybe 10 years back) was a faily well known photographer and aquainted with the model too.

Linda Sobeck

Studio 3-1-oh wrote:

Google Timothy McVey, Benedict Arnold, the Unibomber.  There are always exceptions to the rule and to "normal" people in society that go bad.  Poodles bite more often than Pit Bulls, stingrays are now man-killers.

Linda was murdered by a reputable photographer.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Google Linda Sobeck

But as with anything, there are always issues of bad photographers, good photographers, bad models, good models, and also bad escorts and good escorts.  I have know people in all of these categories.

I'm glad that you mentioned Linda Sobek.

It's one of three cases in 20 years in this country where a model was murdered by her photographer.

In the other two cases, the photographer was only posing as a photographer, and a simple check of references (or lack thereof) would have revealed this.

She was an ex-Raiderette and sucessful model.

She went on a shoot with a photographer, and drove her own vehicle to the shoot.
She called a friend halfway through the shoot, and told her that the photographer
was making her uncomfortable. She had a chance to leave in her own vehicle, did
not, and ended up getting murdered.

Bottom line: If you feel creepy- LEAVE.

Trevor Snyder wrote:

On the other hand, you could be sitting on the shitter in a public airport and get wasted by a random stranger, but you don't insist on having an escort there. The whole escort thing is purely a personal preference and I hope most models don't live the paranoid life that reading threads on MM alone would lead too.

Yes, there are perverts hanging out on the Internet. Shocking. So take whatever steps you feel you need to filter them out of your life. But be a little realistic. Use your intuition. Do a little research before you go to a photo session with someone you've never worked with.

It's really not that hard.

Anyone can meet their doom at the hands of another human being at any time, unexpectedly. That doesn't mean we should all be paranoid all the time. That's no way to live.

Trevor, you are right that we should not live in fear. The escort issue is a personal preference of the model and photographer.  We have choices.  I started my thread on escorts because I hope that models not only consider whom they shoot with but also if they choose to have an escort, ask themselves "Why?" and then if they choose to have an escort, consider carefully whom that person should be.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Linda was murdered by a reputable photographer.

Timothy was a good student, Benedict Arnold was a good soldier and a patriot, Unibomber was, well he probably was weird.  The photographer that killed Linda actually was an embittered ex test photographer that no longer had access to models and was a bit over the edge already.  Many agents in Orange County reported that they had used him but stopped due to the warning signs he was volatile and unstable.  Find his name and google, or try to google Kathy Clarke Agency or Brand Agency.

Maya Lei wrote:
According to Tyra, the risk is very real...ooohhh....

And I don't doubt that.

But CHANCES ARE, nothing is going to happen... especially is his port is halfway decent.

That's how I look at it.

I did have a guy pull out his cock in Tampa - GWC was paying me way too much.  He was an attorney by day, lonely married dude w Asian fetish by night.  I proceeded to smack him with it (just kidding).  Lemme know if you want his name

Gotta love the fiesty ones. Why not just put on your Profile Photographers you will not work with. That sould get their attendtion. You don't have to say why, unless the a model checks your references.  Cheers, Tim

Lexloco wrote:
I am still waiting for a model to tell me about a photographer she met on MM and went to shoot with (without an escort) and was attacked.

It has happened.  I do know of at least one case but I certainly can't post it because that would get me kicked off MM!  Now if you want to call or message me .. oh shit, that would be gossip!  Just trust me, it has happened before.

Image K wrote:

I'm glad that you mentioned "The Phone Call"

Somewhere along the line, you need to talk to the person that you're gonna be alone with.

I wont consider a appointment to meet or shoot "booked" until there has been a phone call and an exchange of phone numbers of both parties.  That is why I have no complaints about flakes or bad escorts.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Now if you want to call or message me .. oh shit, that would be gossip!  Just trust me, it has happened before.

Did HIS or her name rhyme with Mean Smelly?

Patrick Walberg wrote:

We had an example of that the other night with a model and photographer who seem to no longer be on this website. It was an "outing" thread which is against the rules set for this websites forum.  It does not mean that we have enough information to judge anyone based on posts made in this public forum although quite often people do!

I happened to be awake, and saw the "rapist" threads, and watched the entire drama unfold.

The model started "rapist" threads in every category (Casting Calls, Off-Topic, MM Market, Stylist, etc) stated the photographer's MM number, and warned models not to work with him.

I (and several others) warned her that outing threads were not allowed, and calling someone a rapist (when all she accused him of doing is touching her) could get her in to legal trouble.

She finally stopped posting, and a moderator eventually woke up, locked the threads, and the drama stopped as suddenly as it had started.

The photographer, who had only four pics on his port, no credits or references, and a bio about two sentences long, removed his pics, and erased his bio. 

There were a few things that did not add up:

1. She claimed that her brother and boyfriend (who were actually in another room in the apt) responded to her screams, and threw him out of the apt. Then she claimed that she was going to file a police report. My question: Why let him go? Why not detain him until the Police arrived?

2. The photographer (before he erased his profile) started posting, and claimed that the boyfriend and brother assaulted him for no reason, and he was going to file a police report that reflected this.

3. A photographer that actually had worked with the model prior was posting on MM, and actually called her. The boyfriend answered the phone, and stated that the model had been asleep for 90 minutes. If true, someone else had been posting under her name while she was sleeping.

I guess we will never know whether it happened the way she said, the way he said, or if someone hacked into someone's profiles, and played an elaborate gag on everyone in question.

Welcome to internet photography.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

I wont consider a appointment to meet or shoot "booked" until there has been a phone call and an exchange of phone numbers of both parties.  That is why I have no complaints about flakes or bad escorts.

I agree.

No everyone agrees about this, but I believe in some form of contact other than e-mails or text messaging.

Image K wrote:
the model had been asleep for 90 minutes. If true, someone else had been posting under her name while she was sleeping.

Which is against the rules and cause for banning I think, according to the confusing rules. Either for the slander, the forum spammings, the crying wolf, or the sharing of account.

Studio 3-1-oh wrote:

Which is against the rules and cause for banning I think, according to the confusing rules.

How would someone hijacking her profile be a cause for banning?

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Linda Sobeck

In about 2003, a model was murdered by a photog in PA.  I know a model who had shot with that photog, and gotten away unscathed, and I know a model who was good friends with the model who was murdered.  So, it can happen.  But it can happen on a date, or walking home from the bus stop, too.

Edit:  I googled.  Here's the story on that one:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/do … 318008.htm

Here's a fuller version of what happened:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/p … PrintStory

Vivus Denuo wrote:

In about 2003, a model was murdered by a photog in PA.  I know a model who had shot with that photog, and gotten away unscathed, and I know a model who was good friends with the model who was murdered.  So, it can happen.  But it can happen on a date, or walking home from the bus stop, too.

Edit:  I googled.  Here's the story on that one:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/do … 318008.htm

This is another of the 3 cases in the last 20 years that I reffered to above.

If she had bothered to check references, she would still be alive today.

Vivus Denuo wrote:
In about 2003, a model was murdered by a photog in PA.  I know a model who had shot with that photog, and gotten away unscathed, and I know a model who was good friends with the model who was murdered.  So, it can happen.  But it can happen on a date, or walking home from the bus stop, too.

Edit:  I googled.  Here's the story on that one:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/do … 318008.htm

Yes, these are all isolated incidents. Sure many bad things have happened ... but the odds are small and against it happening again. Sort of a "how often does lightening strike twice?" theory.  The Internet has caused a magnification of issues to the point where I think we are floored by all the freaking warnings!  It's too much that we can all know about things that happen on the other side of the World.  Not that I would give up the Internet, but come on people!  Use common sense!

Image K wrote:
If she had bothered to check references, she would still be alive today.

If she worked at the post office she would be alive too, unless a disgruntled postal worker came in and shot her.  If she had been a flight attendant she'd be alive, unless the plane crashed.
If
If
If
If