Miles Chandler wrote:
I read the whole thread, and I know she gave the photographer specifics. But she didn't give US any, or tell us his response in any detail. So nobody here could possibly tell her if she's "wrong" about the photographer being unreasonable or rude. The thread is pointless- all we can do is pat her on the back:-)

Honestly, if the photographer freaked out on her after she gave an actual reason instead of some vague excuse... he isn't worth working with. He just shows that he is a temperamental diva.

Miles Chandler wrote:
I read the whole thread, and I know she gave the photographer specifics. But she didn't give US any, or tell us his response in any detail. So nobody here could possibly tell her if she's "wrong" about the photographer being unreasonable or rude. The thread is pointless- all we can do is pat her on the back:-)

i dont think that i need to explain myself anymore ......
i just never got a response like this before ...

NancyJ wrote:
I let him know hours before the shoot...
right after i got the call about my family..
i dont want to talk about it because its bothering me right now....
I didnt call and JUST cancel i called and asked if i could reschedule ...
Thanks

as a photographer I have zero tolerance for flakey models. I do have sympathy for family emergencies as well as personal emergencies.

In all honesty hours is not enough time to find a replacement model. I understand that might be all the notice you are given about the family emergency, but if someone calls me and tells me they had a family emergency I would be somewhat skeptical myself without any elaboration. Since you did explain this is obviously not an issue. On all my shoots I will have a makeup artist present, so it is a problem when the model cancels only hours before the shoot because the time I was going to spend shooting them I could have taken another paid job and so could the MUA. Anyone on my team is more than willing to understand if a tragedy happens though - we are all nice people!

I have no doubt that models do occasionally have emergencies - everyone does. But the excuse of a family emergency is the most abused excuse in the world for getting out of work, school, and other commitments.

Since you did explain everything to him he had no right to be upset. A legitimate emergency is a valid reason to cancel a shoot. I have rescheduled shoots due to personal illness before so I understand that sometimes you just CAN'T do a shoot.

If he doesn't want to work with you again don't worry about it - there are thousands of photographers, many of whom are probably better anyways!

Mikes Images - Mike #4 wrote:
Here's what I'd suggest.  Work with other photographers, post great images, wait a year and then talk to the photographer again...

Ditto.

Couture Imagery wrote:
In all honesty hours is not enough time to find a replacement model.

Probably why agencies exist.

NancyJ wrote:
i dont think that i need to explain myself anymore ......
i just never got a response like this before ...

Sigh. No of course you don't "need" to do anything. But you started an entire thread just to ask why a photographer was rude to you, and every response you've gotten is completely meaningless because we don't know what he said that you considered "rude" , or what your excuse really was. All people can do (and they have) is say "Awww.. he's a jerk", even though they have no idea if that would be their opinion if they knew the facts.
It's like me asking if a garage is charging too much to fix my car and then refusing to say what type of car I have, what's wrong with it, or how much the estimate is for the repairs. You see?

Aaron S wrote:

Probably why agencies exist.

in all honesty hours is not enough to get a model from agencies either. Agency models do cancel occasionally as well and even the top ten agencies are going to have a hard time getting a replacement that fast.

fortunately, even with night-before cancellations, I have never had a problem finding a replacement quickly. I guess I am lucky to have a great network of models that I can call on a moments notice and find someone for the next day, but I can see how it would put many photographers here, especially beginning ones in a bind.

but hey, everyone has emergencies - you just have to learn to adapt to whatever gets thrown your way.

Primal Lens wrote:

Why is an emergency not a real answer? Unless the person says this often you have no reason not to believe her unless you`re just being a jerk. Why is it any of his business what the familyemergency is?It`s family business.

I bet If your favorite photographer came to you and wanted to shoot you and cancelled on short notice  and said  suddenly had a family emergency you would be perfectly fine with it and not expect him to tell you what the emergency was. In family emergencies you have enough on your mind without having to give personal details.

It's just so easy to say oh I had a family emergency.Plus some people use emergency lightly.Not just with photographers and models but with anyone like students or for work people lie about stuff like that.Now if they gave me an exact reason that'd be fine but I don't think saying oh an emergency calls for letting you reschedule.I wasn't trying to be rude and I wasn't saying you had to agree either.Obviously this photographer has similar feelings as me because he didn't want to reschedule either.Also your point about photographers.If a photographer told me only that he had a family emergency and didn't have an explaination I would suspect they were lying.That's just me and I'm not sorry if you don't like that.

Miles Chandler wrote:

Sigh. No of course you don't "need" to do anything. But you started an entire thread just to ask why a photographer was rude to you, and every response you've gotten is completely meaningless because we don't know what he said that you considered "rude" , or what your excuse really was. All people can do (and they have) is say "Awww.. he's a jerk", even though they have no idea if that would be their opinion if they knew the facts.
It's like me asking if a garage is charging too much to fix my car and then refusing to say what type of car I have, what's wrong with it, or how much the estimate is for the repairs. You see?

yeah exactly what I was thinking

Couture Imagery wrote:

in all honesty hours is not enough to get a model from agencies either. Agency models do cancel occasionally as well and even the top ten agencies are going to have a hard time getting a replacement that fast.

Well, I guess it depends where you are. London is the only place I've had the problem. And the agencies there don't like to help you until the last minute anyway.

Aaron S wrote:

Well, I guess it depends where you are. London is the only place I've had the problem. And the agencies there don't like to help you until the last minute anyway.

a day maybe, but just a couple hours is hard to swing especially if you are shooting on location in some place that is hard to find unless you know where you are going

skint lizard designs wrote:
Basically, if you really want to get back on good terms with the photographer, offer to pay for what the shoot cost him. Call me old school, but my father was a successful businessman and I still cherish the years I had to watch him operate. One of the simple rules he followed was if you can't live up to your end of an agreement, offer to make it right. Family emergencies are a part of life, however, when we choose to deal with them--as most of us do--we can't expect others to eat the costs. I offering to make it right financially is always an investment for the future.

Or in the very least offer to shoot for twice as long with just as much compensation as was agreed to in the initial shoot. Thats about the only way that you can attempt to get back into his graces, if you still want to shoot with him.

Think about this, you've put a lot of work into getting ready for the shoot, maybe a manicure and pedicure, showered, shaved extra careful, chosen your wardrobe and have everything packed up and ready to go. Then your phone rings. "Hi this is your photographer, I have to cancel blah blah blah blah..." Thats all that you hear. You're so disappointed that you can't even hear their reason, and even if you do, the magnitude of the reason isn't likely to affect you becuase you've never met this person. All your hours of prepration are now wasted. At this point its TOUGHT to be compassionate enough to say something kind to the person. I've been there. The fact that the photographer offered to pay me in full for the arranged amount made the entire situation better. I was still pretty disappointed though.

It happens to the best of us. The best thing is for each of us to remember the inconvenience that we are placing the other person in, and take steps to fix the situation as soon as we possibly can.

TXPhotog wrote:
How much did you offer to compensate him for the cost (out of pocket and opportunity cost) of the shoot you missed?  He gave up a day to shoot with you, and lost the opportunity to schedule something else. Did he hire a makeup artist for the day?  If so, she did the same.  Did you offer to compensate her?

If you had, I suspect the response from the photographer would have been less "rude".

Oh bah... lighten up a little bit. Everyone has emergencies... and frankly, if I am in the middle of a serious family emergency all you're gonna get is a call. Once things settle down, then I'll be able to refocus enough to offer some form of compensation for your time. If its a real emergency though, compensating you for your effort is going to be the LAST thing on my mind.

Benefit of the doubt is a beautiful thing.

NC17 wrote:
Oh bah... lighten up a little bit. Everyone has emergencies... and frankly, if I am in the middle of a serious family emergency all you're gonna get is a call. Once things settle down, then I'll be able to refocus enough to offer some form of compensation for your time. If its a real emergency though, compensating you for your effort is going to be the LAST thing on my mind.

Benefit of the doubt is a beautiful thing.

There is room for lots of doubt about this situation in particular, and Internet shoots in general.  I don't think it would be at all wrong to suggest that things are often not as they are presented on the 'net, by models and photographers both.

From his perspective:

1.  Was there a real family emergency?  Maybe, but the sixth time in a row that some Internet model tells you her grandmother died as an excuse for not showing up, you begin to wonder that there is anyone left in the country over age 60.  Only a fool takes all excuses at face value.  Fool me once . . . you don't get the chance to do it again.

2.  We don't know what the family emergency was.  Her mother got in a car wreck and was on life support?  Her hamster was sick?  Was the explanation she gave him sufficient for him to judge it as a real "emergency" that justified the cancellation?  How do you know?

3.  We don't know the nature of the shoot.  Was this a "show up at my studio and we will figure it out when you get here" or did he make extensive plans, rent a studio, hire an MUA and stylist, and have a $500 or more invested in non-refundable costs?  If the former, an offer to reimburse him would be taken as a nice gesture, but wouldn't cost her anything.  If the latter, it's not surprising he wouldn't want to risk another go-around with her, if he doesn't perceive her as being willing to take any responsibility for his expenses.

4.  We don't know how, if at all, rude he really was.  All we know for sure is that he chose not to reschedule.  For a model I had a shoot planned with that called hours before and cancelled with a "my grandmother died", I wouldn't reschedule either.  The model may be as reliable as any agency pro - but on the basis of my sample of one experience with her, I would prefer to work with someone else.  That's the prerogarative of the photographer.  There is no rule obligating him to allow her the chance to "fool him twice".

It's entirely possible, given the situation as presented by the OP, that this photographer is out a substantial sum of money through no fault of his own.  When she calls and says she's "sorry, want to do it again?" are you so very sure you want to blame him for saying no?

Under the circumstances, I don't think an offer from her to compensate him in some way, if only to show that she recognized that she had put a burden on him and didn't mean to, would be at all out of line.  And such an offer, if made, would go a long way towards diminishing the "fool me twice" issue.  If he feels that she is feeling his pain, and making it hers, in part, he will have a lot more trust and respect for her.

NC17 wrote:
I can't help it if you've been cancelled on... whats that say about you?

This is objectionable.  You are making the fact that Internet models flake into a problem with me.  I don't accept that for a minute.  When a model approaches me for a shoot, we set it up as she agrees to, and she flakes, that says something about HER, and what it says is that I don't want to deal with her again.

NC17 wrote:
I just don't have the energy to waste being really harsh with people. Its not worth my effort, I have much better things to do than waste energy being upset and angery at people.

I don't have that energy either.  And the solution is simple:  when someone flakes, I wash my hands of them and move on with my life.  I don't make anguished posts about it on Internet forums, I don't lose sleep.  I do cut my losses.

NC17 wrote:
I recently had to cancel a shoot due to the fact that my boyfriend got really sick very quickly. Shit happens. If others can't understand that, then thats their problem.

You have mischaracterized.  I can understand it, I just don't want to deal with it.  If your life is stuctured so that when something happens with your boyfriend, you cancel a shoot, that's up to you.  It may be entirely reasonable.  But it is also reasonable for me, should it happen to me, to not want to set something up with you again.

NC17 wrote:
If you end up getting flaked on too many times in a row its probably time to examine your target group and see if there is a problem, and do a better job of screening your potential models.

I don't have a "target group".  I don't spend much, if any, time recruiting models to shoot with, and am perfectly happy not to shoot for long, long periods.  The vast majority of the time, when I shoot it is because someone has approached me.  I am their target.

It's easy enough for me to decide not to shoot with Internet models anymore, and that would, indeed, reduce the incidence of flakes.  As it is, my choice has been not to allow any repeat flakes.  That is my choice to make.

NC17 wrote:
I certainly hope that I do not become jaded as I age. If I do, I certainly hope I've got the brains to know that I need to make a change within myself to fix the situation.

Or, in the alternative, the brains not to blame the victim.

NancyJ wrote:
I have been modeling since quiet a while now and never did one of those NO SHOWS.
Only once did I have to cancel a shoot and  it was because of a family emergency.
I did contact the photographer in this  case and explained myself in a very nice manner!
Why did I get a rude response from him about not wanting to reschedule?
Any words of advice?
HUGS NANCY

Not knowing all the specifics, since you asked for advice, my advice for the future would be this. If you knew in advance that the photographer would incur nonrefundable costs at his expense, and if this were a tfp and you had a family emergency or any other reason that would prevent you from showing up, tell him you will send him a reasonable payment for the inconvenience, and insist on it. Tell him  or her that the check is going to be in the afternoon mail.

That way, you relieve yourself of any feeling of guilt or remorse over it, and he should not have to be rude to you if he will get paid a reasonable amount for the inconvenience. Of course this is all hypothetical on my part, since I don't know everything about how the shoot was set.   this is just my opinion.... hope it helps a little.

skint lizard designs wrote:
Basically, if you really want to get back on good terms with the photographer, offer to pay for what the shoot cost him.

I had to read all the way down the first page before getting to the first logical response.
Many have said to move on but that's crap.  You canceled, (though you call it a reschedule), and he should be reimbursed.

skint lizard designs wrote:
Basically, if you really want to get back on good terms with the photographer, offer to pay for what the shoot cost him.

markcomp wrote:
I had to read all the way down the first page before getting to the first logical response.
Many have said to move on but that's crap.  You canceled, (though you call it a reschedule), and he should be reimbursed.

lol, I guess I missed that but my post was kinda similar

StudioMona wrote:

skint lizard designs wrote:
Basically, if you really want to get back on good terms with the photographer, offer to pay for what the shoot cost him.

lol, I guess I missed that but my post was kinda similar

That's cause we think so much alike.

NancyJ wrote:
I have been modeling since quiet a while now and never did one of those NO SHOWS.
Only once did I have to cancel a shoot and  it was because of a family emergency.
I did contact the photographer in this  case and explained myself in a very nice manner!
Why did I get a rude response from him about not wanting to reschedule?
Any words of advice?
HUGS NANCY

I would have been more than happy to reschedule you!  Of course, you'd forfeit the deposit on the first shoot and would have to put a deposit down on the rescheduled shoot.  This is business, not fun.

skint lizard designs wrote:
Funny...as people sit here and debate this issue, NancyJ has seem to have lost interest a long time ago...Just a note of interest.

I don't think she is getting the answer she wants anymore.

TXPhotog wrote:

NC17 wrote:
I can't help it if you've been cancelled on... whats that say about you?

This is objectionable.  You are making the fact that Internet models flake into a problem with me.  I don't accept that for a minute.  When a model approaches me for a shoot, we set it up as she agrees to, and she flakes, that says something about HER, and what it says is that I don't want to deal with her again.

If the model approaches you, then yes, its all on her. If you approached the model, and repeatedly end up flaked upon, then its time to question your methods. This is more speaking in the generic you, not as in singular you alone, TX.

TXPhotog wrote:

NC17 wrote:
I recently had to cancel a shoot due to the fact that my boyfriend got really sick very quickly. Shit happens. If others can't understand that, then thats their problem.

You have mischaracterized.  I can understand it, I just don't want to deal with it.  If your life is stuctured so that when something happens with your boyfriend, you cancel a shoot, that's up to you.  It may be entirely reasonable.  But it is also reasonable for me, should it happen to me, to not want to set something up with you again.

*shrugs* Its reasonable for you to say that, just as its reasonable for me to say that. However, family comes first... always. Money is never so important to me as to take care of my family.

TXphotog wrote:

NC17 wrote:
If you end up getting flaked on too many times in a row its probably time to examine your target group and see if there is a problem, and do a better job of screening your potential models.

I don't have a "target group".  I don't spend much, if any, time recruiting models to shoot with, and am perfectly happy not to shoot for long, long periods.  The vast majority of the time, when I shoot it is because someone has approached me.  I am their target.

Then obviously the above does not apply to you. Again, read generic you, not specific you.

TXPhotog wrote:

Or, in the alternative, the brains not to blame the victim.

All too often in this lovely society of ours people take too little responsibility. I don't intend to let that happen to myself. I can never change the actions of others, but I can change myself. Change can include removing myself from the situation just as you have... though I still get a bitter edge to your frankness.