Heidi Pinkney wrote:
Well I just did my 1st TFCD & it went well, really good experience. Thanks for all your help & input :-)

Yay!!!

Let us know when you post the pics!  : )

Catriona wrote:

I know! That's why it's so frustrating to keep reading your posts.
On my planet, attacking someone's work, education, and personality (as you did to both Boswell and Carole Hayes), when none of those things are even remotely relevant to the discussion, because you don't agree with their opinion counts as "trolling."

Thank you!  (For the post AND for spelling my name correctly!)

: )

Shyly wrote:
Everyone is talking about the practice of collaborative shoots as if all circumstances and markets are the same, which renders this conversation basically meaningless.  What is true for a top tier fashion model won't necessarily be true for an art model or a commercial model or a fetish model, or...

I think that on a website like MM, where people from all levels and types of experience come together, it is important to be specific rather than general when expressing our opinions based on our experiences.  Mine is as a hobbyist art model.  I can tell you a lot of things about working as an art model that are true, but wouldn't be true across the boards for other kinds of modeling.  If I make general statements about the nugget of truth with which I am acquainted, the statement is rendered meaningless by too broad an application.

Shyly,

You make a very good point.  I agree -- which is why I tried to keep my comments as general as possible:  I believe that "do your homework before working with someone" applies in every field....

Shyly wrote:
Why does this always have to devolve into such a nasty argument?  Isn't it enough to manage your business in the way you see fit, and allow other people to do the same?  (General "you" not directed at anyone specifically.)  What's with this obsessive need to hammer away at anyone who does things differently?

It always devolves into a nasty argument because Lightwave won't stay out of it.  He takes every opportunity to slam TFP/CD and those who do it, and he doesn't just do it in threads where seasoned professionals are debating the issue:  he seems to make an effort to seek out threads where new models are asking for advice, and then offering his opinion as if it were the sacred truth.  THEN he proceeds to tear down the work of anyone who disagrees with him -- unless they offer something he can't counter, in which case he either ignores them or turns to personal attacks.

Shyly wrote:
And then everyone puts on their cranky pants, like they have here, and the whole thing devolves into personal insults.

If you go back through the thread, I think you'll find that most of the insults come from Lightwave; the rest are in response to things he's said....

(nice portfolio, btw!)  : )

Shyly wrote:
Why does this always have to devolve into such a nasty argument?  Isn't it enough to manage your business in the way you see fit, and allow other people to do the same?  (General "you" not directed at anyone specifically.)  What's with this obsessive need to hammer away at anyone who does things differently?

In some cases, we have a real life application of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Some people get so obsessed with their beliefs/righteousness, that they lose sight/contact with the general/other realities around them.  Generally, the more energy a given person puts into defending a given position and ignoring or devaluating all others, the less experienced they are with Life.  Everyone's Reality is different from everyone elses.  Those that think otherwise are rather out of touch with Reality.

Shyly wrote:
Are there professional photographers out there making a successful living creating great images who do collaborative projects with models from time to time?  Sure.  (And you might be surprised by who some of them are.)

There are also many amateur photographers out there who, while not making a successful living creating greating images, are creating great images via collaborative efforts with models (translation: TFP work).

Shyly wrote:
And then everyone puts on their cranky pants, like they have here, and the whole thing devolves into personal insults.

I lost my Cranky Pants years ago.  I probably wouldn't fit in them now anyway.  The way I look at it is simple: you might not approve of what I do - but, damnit, I can do what I do better than you will ever be able to do what I do! So, don't tell me what I do is wrong.  It's only different than what you do.

Whew!  I must have had something good to smoke today....I'm feeling very philosophical at the moment!

Ok, now, WHICH one of you beautiful models would like to work with me - for TFP?  I'm in need of a shoot!  Help me out here, ok?

-R

Lightwave Photography wrote:
...it isn't worth my time to respond to her because I dont practice psychiatry.

Lay off the personal attacks, okay?

BD, MM Moderator

Heidi P. wrote:
The first two are up now, just the first ones the photographer has done, let me know what you think.

honestly, i don't like any of the new shots. you look bored or the photos are shot in a bad angle. i particularly don't like this one. it is not flattering for you butt.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=2017556

your old photos are far better. . .

Leo Chan wrote:

honestly, i don't like any of the new shots. you look bored or the photos are shot in a bad angle. i particularly don't like this one. it is not flattering for you butt.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=2017556

your old photos are far better. . .

Do you know what, I wasn't sure about that one either - it's gone :-)

Rowen wrote:
That being said, to answer your question about my nudes.....  I don't usually sell my works.  This is a hobby and a way to get away from the astrophysics of stellar dynamics and interiors, LOL!  However, I have had a couple requests for purchases and, in all cases, I split any sales with my models 50/50.  I will tell models this up front, too.  I need them to pose for my photographs and they need me to take them [the photographs], so I feel a 50/50 split is fair and equitable.  I do try to get them paid modelling jobs with the companies I've worked for though....as a way of helping out when/where I can.

-Rowen

I couldn't agree more. It is not fair to a model to shoot a TFP/CD and the photographer makes money on the images. If a photographer intends to make money on the images, the model should be paid money for her time. If, as in your case, the photographer sells an occasional image from a TFP/CD shoot, the model should get a cut. I am not talking about "copyright laws" or the rights of photographers as opposed to the rights of models, I am simply talking about fairness.