Full Sun Photography wrote:
how naive some models are.........Models will agree to shoot with you on these websites and then change their minds after you've gone and contracted a makeup artist , stylist , etc,...don't they understand that these little agreements made on these websites are legal and binding ? Don't they understand that we can charge them   IN COURT for not showing up ?

and the color of the sky on your planet is?

Full Sun Photography wrote:
how naive some models are.........Models will agree to shoot with you on these websites and then change their minds after you've gone and contracted a makeup artist , stylist , etc,...don't they understand that these little agreements made on these websites are legal and binding ? Don't they understand that we can charge them   IN COURT for not showing up ?

meh, cry me a river. Try wasting weeks of time and money shooting 10k photos for a website and then have the model decide she doesnt wanna do it.

Full Sun Photography wrote:
Don't they understand that we can charge them   IN COURT for not showing up ?

MrE Creations wrote:
meh, cry me a river. Try wasting weeks of time and money shooting 10k photos for a website and then have the model decide she doesnt wanna do it.

And this is precisely why you should just pay the models for the shoots per diem and then you make 100% of the profits the site makes. No profit sharing involved.

MrE Creations wrote:

meh, cry me a river. Try wasting weeks of time and money shooting 10k photos for a website and then have the model decide she doesnt wanna do it.

I'll pass.

Full Sun Photography wrote:
What are all of you saying ?  that these agreeements are not biding ? not the the way I've understood verbal , let alone written agreements to be..

But then you have to prove that she was in fact the person who was writing them on her own behalf. It would be very easy for her to simply say that her 'manager' wrote them for her and therefore you should be suing him. Oh... and by the way, she doesn't remember what his name was.

John Jebbia wrote:

And this is precisely why you should just pay the models for the shoots per diem and then you make 100% of the profits the site makes. No profit sharing involved.

Uh huh. Thats what I will be doing from now on.

John Jebbia wrote:

And this is precisely why you should just pay the models for the shoots per diem and then you make 100% of the profits the site makes. No profit sharing involved.

Paying, even in cash per diem is still no guarantee against no shows.
OP has my sympathy.

Full Sun Photography wrote:
What are all of you saying ?  that these agreeements are not biding ? not the the way I've understood verbal , let alone written agreements to be..

I think that's exactly what they're saying. You honestly think you can take someone to court over a verbal agreement? Gee, my last boyfriend told me he would always love me - think I can sue him for dumping me?

As for written agreement, I'm no lawyer, but I have a suspicion that someone who was one would not find an e-mail stating "Sure, let's shoot!" as legally binding. If a model actually signs a contract and then fails to deliver, then you've got something, but otherwise, you're in the same boat as all of the rest of us who have had people agree to shoots and then not follow through - SOL.

Full Sun Photography wrote:
how naive some models are.........Models will agree to shoot with you on these websites and then change their minds after you've gone and contracted a makeup artist , stylist , etc,...don't they understand that these little agreements made on these websites are legal and binding ? Don't they understand that we can charge them   IN COURT for not showing up ?

Is he really serious....I thought he was joking!

MrE Creations wrote:

meh, cry me a river. Try wasting weeks of time and money shooting 10k photos for a website and then have the model decide she doesnt wanna do it.

By 10k are you referring to the pay you would have received for those shots, Michael Bell - I mean, "Mr. E"? And you complain about models asking $150 an hour?

Sorry, thread hijack.

Full Sun Photography wrote:
What are all of you saying ?  that these agreeements are not biding ? not the the way I've understood verbal , let alone written agreements to be..

Is this Tennessee mentality?

that's not how it works in the real world.

Catriona wrote:

I think that's exactly what they're saying. You honestly think you can take someone to court over a verbal agreement? Gee, my last boyfriend told me he would always love me - think I can sue him for dumping me?

Damn good example.

OP- I work in law. Your logic isn't logical. It doesn't work that way in your situation. Verbal agreements do hold up in some cases.

This isn't one of them.

And if you're that hyped up on taking models to court- you'll be shooting with no one.

Catriona wrote:

By 10k are you referring to the pay you would have received for those shots, Michael Bell - I mean, "Mr. E"? And you complain about models asking $150 an hour?

Sorry, thread hijack.

Go find someone else to bother. You cant possibly have that much time on your hands.

Full Sun Photography wrote:
I guess I'll pass too..I have always been under the understanding that Verbal Agreements WOULD  stand up.. , but I guess ya'll know more than some of the lawyers I know..and when you've got agreements made on these websites then...aren't they then WRITTEN  AGREEMENTS..???????     BEtter check your law...

curt needs to see this crap.

don't get so defensive because you're wrong.

Full Sun Photography wrote:
I guess I'll pass too..I have always been under the understanding that Verbal Agreements WOULD  stand up.. , but I guess ya'll know more than some of the lawyers I know..and when you've got agreements made on these websites then...aren't they then WRITTEN  AGREEMENTS..???????     BEtter check your law...

True, that verbal contracts are binding... IF YOU CAN PROVE THEM.

Maybe your lawyer is having a slow month and needs the business. Regardless of whether you can actually win or not, he still gets paid. Better check the ethics of your lawyer.

Colin Talcroft wrote:
Do your research. A verbal agreement to perform a service or to pay for a service is technically a contract and therefore subject to all the same laws as any other contract. They are hard to enforce, which is why people always say "get it in writing," but a verbal contract is, in fact, a contract.

wrong times a billion.

SOME verbal agreements are binding. setting up a shoot where no money is deposited or involved, and no terms are signed to (that's SIGNED WITH INK) is not a binding agreement.

If you can't prove it, you have no case.

What do I know- I only work in law.

edit: and if these are the rules you practice, you'll limit the models that will work with you.

Full Sun Photography wrote:
I'm sorry I've gotten into this forum conversation..I'm just trying to understand when an agreement is an agreement..it's always been my understanding that a verbal agreement was EQUAL  to a WRITTEN agreement..I'm outa here...

consult an attorney.

not the ones you have consulted previously- cause they are wrong

Full Sun Photography wrote:
It's just confusing to me because I've sit in on several of these forums and listened to people talk about verbal agreements on different things..I'm not looking for an arguement here..just trying to find out what really is legal when it comes to internet conversation..I've listened to many WELL KNOWN photogs on here talking about LEGAL  AND  BINDING.. , but when I ask the same questions there seems to be a separate set of rules..

1. i thought you were done posting

2. people did give you answers. you just don't like them.