Photographer
Scott Evans Photography
Posts: 578
Houston, Alaska, US
I have had many conversations with model and photographers on the differences between "internet models" and "agency models" and we all agree on one major thing; professionalism!
Internet models derive the majority of their shoots off of sites like this one. The majority are TFP and the majority are lacking the true modeling skills and have a greater prepensity to now-show or flake, NOT ALL DO
Agency models are signed models, usually between 5'8" and 6'0" (varies) and are better skilled at the craft and are uaually on time and prepared
I have determined the difference by attitude and professionalism. I hardly think that a Houston model who flaked on me 3 times for a TFP shoot is a model, internet, agency or otherwise.
Now lets see how many of your actually READ this and take it in the vein it was intended and not as a personal attack!
Photographer
Tog
Posts: 55204
Birmingham, Alabama, US
Emotive Photography wrote:
Now lets see how many of your actually READ this and take it in the vein it was intended and not as a personal attack! What's the other way to take it?
i.e. What's your point?
Photographer
Scott Evans Photography
Posts: 578
Houston, Alaska, US
W.G. Rowland wrote:
What's the other way to take it?
i.e. What's your point? My point, is as written; 'I have determined the difference by attitude and professionalism."
Proves my point
Model
Tiara Lestari
Posts: 11436
Jhanaydāh, Jhanaydāh, Bangladesh
lotusphoto wrote:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Modle hiihihhi Lotus!
Photographer
BTHPhoto
Posts: 6985
Fairbanks, Alaska, US
Agency models have more parts so they're harder to operate. That's why you have to be a pro to use one. And even then, some pros need assistants to make them work right.
Oh, and what's a prepensity?
And why are you yelling?
And I kind of like now-show models.
Model
Iona Lynn
Posts: 11176
Oakland, California, US
Would you be so kind as to define the word professionalism for us OP...
*snickers*
Model
LaViolette
Posts: 9865
Hollywood, Florida, US
I don't understand. It sounds like she was stringing u along. Why would u let her get away with pulling that more than once?
Photographer
The Dave
Posts: 8848
Ann Arbor, Michigan, US
Flake on me once, shame on you...
Flake on me twice, shame on me...
Flake on me three times.... Damn, Rule #1 applys here....
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Emotive Photography wrote:
I have had many conversations with model and photographers on the differences between "internet models" and "agency models" and we all agree on one major thing; professionalism!
Internet models derive the majority of their shoots off of sites like this one. The majority are TFP and the majority are lacking the true modeling skills and have a greater prepensity to now-show or flake, NOT ALL DO
Agency models are signed models, usually between 5'8" and 6'0" (varies) and are better skilled at the craft and are uaually on time and prepared
I have determined the difference by attitude and professionalism. I hardly think that a Houston model who flaked on me 3 times for a TFP shoot is a model, internet, agency or otherwise.
Now lets see how many of your actually READ this and take it in the vein it was intended and not as a personal attack! The difference between an Internet model and an agency model has to do with where they get the bulk of work. Any person who is freelance modeling or with an agency should perform in a professional manner regardless. This is about "business" so if someone is having problems working with a freelance model, then they can simply drop that model for someone else. You pay more for an agency model because they have gone through some process of selection before reaching you.
What would you call a model who is signed with a non exclusive agency and makes money from work from off the Internet too? Jessica Marie Jones of Ohio does work that way. She is very professional!
Photographer
Scott Evans Photography
Posts: 578
Houston, Alaska, US
Katy Goldapple wrote:
Umm if that model flaked on you three times, I'm sorry, that's your own fault for being clueless enough to work w/ her two more times. If I plan to shoot w/ someone once & they're a no-show, they won't get a second chance w/ me (unless it was some type of emergency). Ahhh so when I try to be a nice guy, or as you put it "clueless", and offer my services TFP and decide NOT to be a jerk about cancelling and falking then I am still a jerk? But when I offer an opinion with examples as to the difference, and that difference being professionalism I am still a jerk,,,lose lose that is. I find it funny that each model that responds to threads like this is always the exception and not the rule LMAO!
Photographer
Scott Evans Photography
Posts: 578
Houston, Alaska, US
Patrick Walberg wrote:
The difference between an Internet model and an agency model has to do with where they get the bulk of work. Any person who is freelance modeling or with an agency should perform in a professional manner regardless. This is about "business" so if someone is having problems working with a freelance model, then they can simply drop that model for someone else. You pay more for an agency model because they have gone through some process of selection before reaching you.
What would you call a model who is signed with a non exclusive agency and makes money from work from off the Internet too? Jessica Marie Jones of Ohio does work that way. She is very professional! I have determined the difference by attitude and professionalism.
Model
Tiara Lestari
Posts: 11436
Jhanaydāh, Jhanaydāh, Bangladesh
Emotive Photography wrote:
My point, is as written; 'I have determined the difference by attitude and professionalism."
Proves my point How about this...
I was on non-exclusive contract with Elite Model and Talent Management. On that premises, they teach me how to be a professional. Resulting me always be on time, or early, never flake, always ready, never show up drunk or look tired, ready to work!
The difference is, Im not with Elite and I do this part time, therefore im an internet model. With the same work ethic.
Photographer
Scott Evans Photography
Posts: 578
Houston, Alaska, US
Lestari wrote:
How about this...
I was on non-exclusive contract with Elite Model and Talent Management. On that premises, they teach me how to be a professional. Resulting me always be on time, or early, never flake, always ready, never show up drunk or look tired, ready to work!
The difference is, Im not with Elite and I do this part time, therefore im an internet model. With the same work ethic.
I have determined the difference by attitude and professionalism.
Photographer
Lotus Photography
Posts: 19253
Berkeley, California, US
professionalism is looking at nude models on a model site for free, rather than going to a porn site and paying 19.99 per month..
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 65617
Danbury, Connecticut, US
Emotive Photography wrote:
I have had many conversations with model and photographers on the differences between "internet models" and "agency models" and we all agree on one major thing; professionalism! I disagree. The major difference between them is who gets them jobs.
Professionalism can be found in Internet models, and it can be lacking in agency models. Of course, the longevity of an unprofessional agency model is much shorter, so you are bound to run into fewer of them...
Photographer
Scott Evans Photography
Posts: 578
Houston, Alaska, US
lotusphoto wrote:
prefessionalism is looking at nude models on a model site for free, rather than going to a porn site and paying 19.99 per month.. cannot argue with that at all,,,LOL!
Photographer
Scott Evans Photography
Posts: 578
Houston, Alaska, US
Brian Diaz wrote:
I disagree. The major difference between them is who gets them jobs.
Professionalism can be found in Internet models, and it can be lacking in agency models. Of course, the longevity of an unprofessional agency model is much shorter, so you are bound to run into fewer of them... Jobs aside, I agree with you. But I could not write that agency models get more paying jobs because I would have been slamed for saying as much! All models had to start somewhere and those who were professional and had longevity usually made it into the world of "non-TFP" work!
Model
Tiara Lestari
Posts: 11436
Jhanaydāh, Jhanaydāh, Bangladesh
Brian Diaz wrote:
I disagree. The major difference between them is who gets them jobs.
Professionalism can be found in Internet models, and it can be lacking in agency models. Of course, the longevity of an unprofessional agency model is much shorter, so you are bound to run into fewer of them... good point.
Photographer
RED Photographic
Posts: 1458
I'm a great fan of Agency models, and you are right about professionalism and not flaking and all that stuff.
But it is a horses for courses thing. Because I usually hire models, and because I usually expect to make a (usually small) profit somewhere, doesn't mean that I don't understand that other people have projects which don't justify the expense of hiring models, or they don't want to hire models, or they are simply perfectly happy with Internet models.
Yeah, some of them flake. Yeah, some of them bring boyfriends with guns. But most of them are perfectly adequate for the job, and everyone's happy with the results.
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Emotive Photography wrote:
Ahhh so when I try to be a nice guy, or as you put it "clueless", and offer my services TFP and decide NOT to be a jerk about cancelling and falking then I am still a jerk? But when I offer an opinion with examples as to the difference, and that difference being professionalism I am still a jerk,,,lose lose that is. I find it funny that each model that responds to threads like this is always the exception and not the rule LMAO! I'm sorry you have had a model flake on you. However, that is not reflective of all models. Have you tried paying your models? I do quite a few things to make sure a model will show up.
From my blog on www.myspace.com/internetmodelclub
Late again? How to be on time ...
Current mood: cheerful
Category: Art and Photography
It's not fair to pick on models when photographers and just about any human being can be late. I commented on another thread about this but it got buried. I listed some ideas to help motivate people to be on time to shoots like;
(1) Get the people invested in the shoot. If money is being exchanged, she or he is more likely to show up on time! It's a serious loss if you show up late to court or the hospital. So if "serious loss" of money, freedom or life is involved, we show up! 
(2) Be sure you have exchanged cell phone numbers AND that directions are CLEAR. I have a minutes plan that allows for up 5,000 minutes and long distance so I don't care if I talk to someone while giving them directions.
(3) Have alternative plans or things to do available to you so that you are not bored (which contributes to mad moods.) I like to have several people around so that I can put someone in right away to check lighting, warm up, etc. ... before the model gets there. Then when the model arrives, they jump in! It works that way in Hollywood! If you can find something else to occupy your time, you'll feel better.
(4) Car pool or make arrangements for transportation. This is a good thing to do, especially when it's critical to have everyone there about the same time. Traffic becomes less of an "poor" excuse when we are together in it! LOL
For those who do "TFP" and complain ... all I can say is what does the photographer and model have to lose? It's part of the risk you take in doing "TFP" ... it's better to pay the models!
Photographer
Scott Evans Photography
Posts: 578
Houston, Alaska, US
RED Photographic wrote:
I'm a great fan of Agency models, and you are right about professionalism and not flaking and all that stuff.
But it is a horses for courses thing. Because I usually hire models, and because I usually expect to make a (usually small) profit somewhere, doesn't mean that I don't understand that other people have projects which don't justify the expense of hiring models, or they don't want to hire models, or they are simply perfectly happy with Internet models.
Yeah, some of them flake. Yeah, some of them bring boyfriends with guns. But most of them are perfectly adequate for the job, and everyone's happy with the results. No doubt at all, and this helps prove my point in that models who are adequate have a certian measure of professionalism that allows for this. :-)
Photographer
BTHPhoto
Posts: 6985
Fairbanks, Alaska, US
Emotive Photography wrote:
My point, is as written; 'I have determined the difference by attitude and professionalism."
Proves my point You've determined the difference by .... applying attitude and professionalism? ... examining their attitude and professionalism? ... conducting controlled experiments on attitude and professionalism? ... witholding attitude and professionalism? ... there's a verb missing somewhere.
Your point as written is gibberish, and it doesn't prove anything except that you're indulging in an incoherent rant. I know those can make you feel better for a while, but when you start claiming they prove something you usually end up looking foolish.
Photographer
Scott Evans Photography
Posts: 578
Houston, Alaska, US
Patrick Walberg wrote:
I'm sorry you have had a model flake on you. However, that is not reflective of all models. Have you tried paying your models? I do quite a few things to make sure a model will show up.
From my blog on www.myspace.com/internetmodelclub
Late again? How to be on time ...
Current mood: cheerful
Category: Art and Photography
It's not fair to pick on models when photographers and just about any human being can be late. I commented on another thread about this but it got buried. I listed some ideas to help motivate people to be on time to shoots like;
(1) Get the people invested in the shoot. If money is being exchanged, she or he is more likely to show up on time! It's a serious loss if you show up late to court or the hospital. So if "serious loss" of money, freedom or life is involved, we show up!
(2) Be sure you have exchanged cell phone numbers AND that directions are CLEAR. I have a minutes plan that allows for up 5,000 minutes and long distance so I don't care if I talk to someone while giving them directions.
(3) Have alternative plans or things to do available to you so that you are not bored (which contributes to mad moods.) I like to have several people around so that I can put someone in right away to check lighting, warm up, etc. ... before the model gets there. Then when the model arrives, they jump in! It works that way in Hollywood! If you can find something else to occupy your time, you'll feel better.
(4) Car pool or make arrangements for transportation. This is a good thing to do, especially when it's critical to have everyone there about the same time. Traffic becomes less of an "poor" excuse when we are together in it! LOL
For those who do "TFP" and complain ... all I can say is what does the photographer and model have to lose? It's part of the risk you take in doing "TFP" ... it's better to pay the models! OH lord,,,this was a simple example,,that is all,,,,showing that being a forgiving nice guy does nto work all the time and that you as a photographer MUSt do all of the things you listed, and even then that is not gurarantee
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Emotive Photography wrote:
I have determined the difference by attitude and professionalism. I would hope that ALL professional models should have a good attitude and professional manner. Again, do you pay your models? I am about to do a shoot today with a model I am paying. If she doesn't show up, then I keep my money for the next one who will. Simple as that! 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
This is the most ridiculous thread yet (short of Hyunh's "is it ok to get hard on a shoot" threads).
Everybody knows the difference has nothing to do with professionalism. Internet models have nicer boobies and give better foot massages. Duh.
Photographer
Scott Evans Photography
Posts: 578
Houston, Alaska, US
Tim Hammond wrote:
You've determined the difference by .... applying attitude and professionalism? ... examining their attitude and professionalism? ... conducting controlled experiments on attitude and professionalism? ... witholding attitude and professionalism? ... there's a verb missing somewhere.
Your point as written is gibberish, and it doesn't prove anything except that you're indulging in an incoherent rant. I know those can make you feel better for a while, but when you start claiming they prove something you usually end up looking foolish. LOL,,theyd didnt learn me dat deer stuff on dat fancy schuoole. You need to be large and in charge don't you LMAO!
Photographer
Scott Evans Photography
Posts: 578
Houston, Alaska, US
Michael Pandolfo wrote:
This is the most ridiculous thread yet (short of Hyunh's "is it ok to get hard on a shoot" threads).
Everybody knows the difference has nothing to do with professionalism. Internet models have nicer boobies and give better foot massages. Duh. FIANLLY,,,,some one gets it! LMAO!
Photographer
Scott Evans Photography
Posts: 578
Houston, Alaska, US
Patrick Walberg wrote:
I would hope that ALL professional models should have a good attitude and professional manner. Again, do you pay your models? I am about to do a shoot today with a model I am paying. If she doesn't show up, then I keep my money for the next one who will. Simple as that! Yes,,paid twice and they flaked once,,,then other showed up 2 hours late,,,I quit paying after that point!
Model
DELETE ACCOUNT
Posts: 5517
Eškašem, Badakhshan, Afghanistan
Good morning, EP! Your points are very well taken. I am curious to know how freelance models (photgraphers, journalists, etc.) fit into this. I am one of many whose work appears offline. I use the Internet as a business and communications tool, and appreciate being able to exchange ideas with you today.
Respectfully,
Kathy Jean
Model
Tiara Lestari
Posts: 11436
Jhanaydāh, Jhanaydāh, Bangladesh
Emotive Photography wrote:
Yes,,paid twice and they flaked once,,,then other showed up 2 hours late,,,I quit paying after that point! Should've contact me!
edit: but then again, I dont look like Eva Longoria
Model
LaViolette
Posts: 9865
Hollywood, Florida, US
Some people seem to have no luck w/ these things 
Photographer
Scott Evans Photography
Posts: 578
Houston, Alaska, US
Lestari wrote:
Should've contact me!
edit: but then again, I dont look like Eva Longoria LMAO!!!!!!!!!! GoOD POINT!
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Emotive Photography wrote:
OH lord,,,this was a simple example,,that is all,,,,showing that being a forgiving nice guy does nto work all the time and that you as a photographer MUSt do all of the things you listed, and even then that is not gurarantee Again, I'm sorry you have been flaked on. It's wonderful that you are able to blow off steam here on the MM forum about it .. and there are many who have! But it happens! Get over it and move on to the next model.
Let me ask you this ... so now that you blow off on here, isn't it more productive to pick up that camera and shoot with some other model? I know I am going to! 
Have a Merry Christmas!
Model
ErinTheArtist
Posts: 306
Oakland, California, US
Emotive Photography wrote:
I have had many conversations with model and photographers on the differences between "internet models" and "agency models" and we all agree on one major thing; professionalism!
Internet models derive the majority of their shoots off of sites like this one. The majority are TFP and the majority are lacking the true modeling skills and have a greater prepensity to now-show or flake, NOT ALL DO
Agency models are signed models, usually between 5'8" and 6'0" (varies) and are better skilled at the craft and are uaually on time and prepared
I have determined the difference by attitude and professionalism. I hardly think that a Houston model who flaked on me 3 times for a TFP shoot is a model, internet, agency or otherwise.
Now lets see how many of your actually READ this and take it in the vein it was intended and not as a personal attack! Damn! I am 5'5"...I have a profile on MM.....I work mostly TFP or TFArt.....and I get to work with alot of fellow MMers.....I guess this means I am not a professional. Sad it can all come down to that.....and we can all be lumped into this category. Some models trade to LEARN something....and more models trade to work with wonderful photographers and not Pay (hence, I am a poor art student).
If you hate us "internet" models so much.....then leave us alone...and quit bitching.
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Emotive Photography wrote:
Yes,,paid twice and they flaked once,,,then other showed up 2 hours late,,,I quit paying after that point! You gave up. I was on OMP for a a year before I shot my first model from that site!
I hope you find some patience for xmas!
Model
Tiara Lestari
Posts: 11436
Jhanaydāh, Jhanaydāh, Bangladesh
Emotive Photography wrote:
LMAO!!!!!!!!!! GoOD POINT! Yeap.. Im sorry if you only work with models that look like Eva Longoria but end up being a flake.
Have a good day
Photographer
Scott Evans Photography
Posts: 578
Houston, Alaska, US
KathyJean wrote:
Good morning, EP! Your points are very well taken. I am curious to know how freelance models (photgraphers, journalists, etc.) fit into this. I am one of many whose work appears offline. I use the Internet as a business and communications tool, and appreciate being able to exchange ideas with you today.
Respectfully,
Kathy Jean KATHY,
I would imagine that the same applies to anyone in this industy. I do NOT use sites like this ans anything other than what you uise it for, a means of communication.
Photographer
Scott Evans Photography
Posts: 578
Houston, Alaska, US
ErinTheArtist wrote:
Damn! I am 5'5"...I have a profile on MM.....I work mostly TFP or TFArt.....and I get to work with alot of fellow MMers.....I guess this means I am not a professional. Sad it can all come down to that.....and we can all be lumped into this category. Some models trade to LEARN something....and more models trade to work with wonderful photographers and not Pay (hence, I am a poor art student).
If you hate us "internet" models so much.....then leave us alone...and quit bitching. Of course your did NOT read this thread! If you did then you would have seen that I never used the word hate, and that my point is that there is not a difference and that is all bopils down to professionalism.
Model
Tiara Lestari
Posts: 11436
Jhanaydāh, Jhanaydāh, Bangladesh
ErinTheArtist wrote:
Damn! I am 5'5"...I have a profile on MM.....I work mostly TFP or TFArt.....and I get to work with alot of fellow MMers.....I guess this means I am not a professional. Sad it can all come down to that.....and we can all be lumped into this category. Some models trade to LEARN something....and more models trade to work with wonderful photographers and not Pay (hence, I am a poor art student).
If you hate us "internet" models so much.....then leave us alone...and quit bitching.
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