Photographer
VLP essentials
Posts: 17
Virginia Beach, Virginia, US
Hello photog memebers...I have a question. I've been noticing a large volume of average, unpublished, and in some cases ones with bad portfolio that are demanding money right now. I know, if the model looks are amazing...whats wrong with paying? But, it seems to be getting crazy now with the demand for money these days. Almost to the point now that models don't feel that they have to build their ports anymore...just ask for cash...and despite their experience, a large amount of it. I am even seeing pro photographers from LA, NY, Miami struggling with this problem...not producing as much models as they did before. I was wondering if any of you are experiencing this situation and what are you doing to handle it.
Photographer
Jim McSmith
Posts: 794
Edinburgh, Scotland, United Kingdom
I think some people think they can just say I'm a model and demand cash even though they have no experience or even modelling ability. If it's fashion or portrait work then unless they have something special to offer it's only fair they work on a TFCD basis to begin with.
But I will add it's a matter of choice. If the photographer wants to pay then that's up to him and again it's a model's choice whether they do TFCD to begin with. No hard rules!
Photographer
Top Gun Digital
Posts: 1528
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
There are a lot of people out there with unrealistic expectations. A lot of them think that by having an MM page it makes them a model. They think that because someone told them that they are pretty that someone else is going to pay them to take their picture. Most of them will find out pretty quickly that such is not the case. What can be done about it, not much.
Photographer
still-photography
Posts: 1591
Bothell, Washington, US
Yes, I've experienced it. I thank them for their interest in working with me, and tell them that I'll be in touch if I ever have a budget that will allow me to retain their services.
I've learned that responding "you've got to be f@ck!ng kidding me" doesn't convince them they're being unrealistic.
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 16713
Orlando, Florida, US
The "market" has become completely oversaturated. In the "old days", there were professional photographers and everyone else in their camera clubs. Now, anyone with $450 can get a D3200 or a T4i kit and call themselves a photographer.
Also, any girl with a Facebook and/or Instagram and an iPhone can call herself a model.
Photographers are extremely accessible to "models" lately, and the need for them to go to someone's studio to help build their portfolio is gone. There are maybe 10-20 photographers in this country that serious models might pay for updating. And every girl thinks she can charge after doing 2 or 3 shoots with somebody who puts ridiculous ideas in her head.
The advice that I can offer you is to just keep at it. Offer people something that they can't easily get elsewhere. Whether that be a unique style, location, or crazy wardrobe. If you have something that people want, they will be far more agreeable to work with you.
The Instagram girls who are demanding payment will continue to do so as long as someone is giving into their demands. If that doesn't happen, chances are, they just won't do shoots because they don't see the value in them, only the potential paycheck. You don't want to work with those people in the first place.
Keep looking for the people who WANT to do it for the love of it. They're the best people to work with anyway.
Photographer
Carlo P Mk2
Posts: 305
Los Angeles, California, US
I personally wouldn't call such models "unworthy" because I view modeling not as a time-based job but rather a usage/likeness-based job (probably not the correct term). By that I mean models make money by allowing people to use their likeness aka images of their face/body for an agreed purpose. Since its the models' own likeness that's being used, the model can rightfully charge however much s/he wants. They set their rates and we'll just have to go with it. I do think the environment/industry/supply-demand has changed so I'm starting to dabble into other types of photography or doing very low key/ low maintenance people shoots. A closeup of a great white shark is probably a lot more cool than a nice portrait of the "prettiest" model on MM, yes? :-p Carlo Parducho www.carloparducho.net
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15973
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom
Top Gun Digital wrote:
There are a lot of people out there with unrealistic expectations. Dreamers.
Photographer
Michael DBA Expressions
Posts: 3730
Lynchburg, Virginia, US
Folks with unrealistic expectations are quickly educated by the Universe, in my experience.
If they can actually GET that money, their expectations were not unrealistic, no?
And if they can't, they either figure it out, or they go away. Problem solved.
Photographer
J Haggerty
Posts: 1315
Augusta, Georgia, US
What do I do when I experience this issue? Thank them and move on.
There are hundreds of other people to work with and if I have specific needs in a model I would go to an agency and make my selects. It's great how adding more to a budget, or having a budget at all, grabs the attention of those "worthy" models and people's life needs are different. If they are making the amount they requested then they're doing something right for themselves.
Photographer
DOUGLASFOTOS
Posts: 10604
Los Angeles, California, US
VLP essentials wrote:
Hello photog memebers...I have a question. I've been noticing a large volume of average, unpublished, and in some cases ones with bad portfolio that are demanding money right now. I know, if the model looks are amazing...whats wrong with paying? But, it seems to be getting crazy now with the demand for money these days. Almost to the point now that models don't feel that they have to build their ports anymore...just ask for cash...and despite their experience, a large amount of it. I am even seeing pro photographers from LA, NY, Miami struggling with this problem...not producing as much models as they did before. I was wondering if any of you are experiencing this situation and what are you doing to handle it. OP...a quick lesson in life....All Art is Subjective. Let's move along.
Photographer
Marcio Faustino
Posts: 2811
Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany
VLP essentials wrote:
Hello photog memebers...I have a question. I've been noticing a large volume of average, unpublished, and in some cases ones with bad portfolio that are demanding money right now. I know, if the model looks are amazing...whats wrong with paying? But, it seems to be getting crazy now with the demand for money these days. Almost to the point now that models don't feel that they have to build their ports anymore...just ask for cash...and despite their experience, a large amount of it. I am even seeing pro photographers from LA, NY, Miami struggling with this problem...not producing as much models as they did before. I was wondering if any of you are experiencing this situation and what are you doing to handle it. For some people everything is all about money. If there is no money they rather don't leave their bad.
It is like this where I live and I didn't realised it before moving. People are extrimily eletist and they earn good money but they can't think on other things that is not about work and money. The result now is 2 photo shoots in 1 year and 6 months. I strugle to find people interested on join projects just for the art and fun. And I used to live where it was the opposite and had 1 or 2 models to shoot every month.
Photographer
ChadAlan
Posts: 4254
Los Angeles, California, US
VLP essentials wrote:
Hello photog memebers...I have a question. I've been noticing a large volume of average, unpublished, and in some cases ones with bad portfolio that are demanding money right now. I know, if the model looks are amazing...whats wrong with paying? But, it seems to be getting crazy now with the demand for money these days. Almost to the point now that models don't feel that they have to build their ports anymore...just ask for cash...and despite their experience, a large amount of it. I am even seeing pro photographers from LA, NY, Miami struggling with this problem...not producing as much models as they did before. I was wondering if any of you are experiencing this situation and what are you doing to handle it. There are many models on here (at least in my area) that will shoot for trade. Amateurs, and very experienced, published models also.
I haven't noticed a surge in new models asking for money lately.
As far as "handling it", I just move on to the next profile. Hope your situation turns around soon!
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 10856
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Carlo P Mk2 wrote:
A closeup of a great white shark is probably a lot more cool than a nice portrait of the "prettiest" model on MM, yes? :-p
Carlo Parducho
www.carloparducho.net Yes. And likely no more dangerous.
Photographer
Viator Defessus Photos
Posts: 1259
Houston, Texas, US
There are plenty of girls that think being pretty makes them a model. There are plenty of men and women that think buying a camera and some lights makes them a photographer. So we're all even. Funny how that works.
Photographer
Jeff Fiore
Posts: 9225
Brooklyn, New York, US
Unless a model is extraordinary, they usually don't last long.
Photographer
Worlds Of Water
Posts: 37732
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US
There's literally 1000's of models on this site who suffer from one commonly serious illness... 'Delusions of Grandeur'... 
Photographer
Another Italian Guy
Posts: 3281
Bath, England, United Kingdom
Rants belong in Off Topic. This one has been done to death.
If somebody is willing to pay them, then they will.
Otherwise, we can simply say "NEXT!"
Concentrate your time on improving your own work rather than worrying about what others are doing.
Just my $0.02 etc. etc.
Photographer
Giuseppe Luzio
Posts: 5834
New York, New York, US
VLP essentials wrote:
Hello photog memebers...I have a question. I've been noticing a large volume of average, unpublished, and in some cases ones with bad portfolio that are demanding money right now. I know, if the model looks are amazing...whats wrong with paying? But, it seems to be getting crazy now with the demand for money these days. Almost to the point now that models don't feel that they have to build their ports anymore...just ask for cash...and despite their experience, a large amount of it. I am even seeing pro photographers from LA, NY, Miami struggling with this problem...not producing as much models as they did before. I was wondering if any of you are experiencing this situation and what are you doing to handle it. When they dont get hired 5 years in a row they may either rant about it in the forums or start asking around what to do...
Photographer
Kool Koncepts
Posts: 965
Saint Louis, Michigan, US
Another Italian Guy wrote:
Rants belong in Off Topic. This one has been done to death.
If somebody is willing to pay them, then they will.
Otherwise, we can simply say "NEXT!"
Concentrate your time on improving your own work rather than worrying about what others are doing.
Just my $0.02 etc. etc. This...
Photographer
Revenge Photography
Posts: 1905
Horsham, Victoria, Australia
I don't let it bother me.
One of a few things generally happen.
1. They get no interest and decide to give up modelling but keep the profile to impress gullible friends.
2. They shoot nudes with GWC's until all the local ones have seen them naked and then they fade away.
3. They realise that its not going to happen and the get more realistic and shoot TF with decent photographers to build a portfolio.
So just wait and let time separate the chaff from the grain
Photographer
Kendra Paige
Posts: 145
Wellington, Florida, US
VLP essentials wrote:
Hello photog memebers...I have a question. I've been noticing a large volume of average, unpublished, and in some cases ones with bad portfolio that are demanding money right now. I know, if the model looks are amazing...whats wrong with paying? But, it seems to be getting crazy now with the demand for money these days. Almost to the point now that models don't feel that they have to build their ports anymore...just ask for cash...and despite their experience, a large amount of it. I am even seeing pro photographers from LA, NY, Miami struggling with this problem...not producing as much models as they did before. I was wondering if any of you are experiencing this situation and what are you doing to handle it. I think that's just the dividing line between an amateur and a professional model. There are tons of new models who hit the scene thinking that because they're pretty, that they're a good model. It can't be further than the truth for a lot of girls. I've photographed girls that were absolutely stunning, but were utterly stiff and lifeless on camera. Being pretty isn't enough.
On the flip side, you can't blame someone for trying. I've found that belittling a model for 'lack of experience' helps no one. I also ensure to state my compensation terms in my initial contact with a model.
Photographer
Vector One Photography
Posts: 3722
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US
You're new here... or at least haven't posted much. You'll learn, this is a long time discussion around here. This isn't the modeling industry, this is the online modeling industry and the rules and good sense aren't the same.
You'll see more silly stuff happen than just this.
Photographer
Laubenheimer
Posts: 9317
New York, New York, US
VLP essentials wrote:
Hello photog memebers...I have a question. I've been noticing a large volume of average, unpublished, and in some cases ones with bad portfolio that are demanding money right now. I know, if the model looks are amazing...whats wrong with paying? But, it seems to be getting crazy now with the demand for money these days. Almost to the point now that models don't feel that they have to build their ports anymore...just ask for cash...and despite their experience, a large amount of it. I am even seeing pro photographers from LA, NY, Miami struggling with this problem...not producing as much models as they did before. I was wondering if any of you are experiencing this situation and what are you doing to handle it. does it keep you up at night? should it?
i realize my answer is cliché. but seriously....
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 23575
Salem, Oregon, US
it might help if photographers would deliver images on TF shoots.
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24079
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Top Gun Digital wrote:
There are a lot of people out there with unrealistic expectations. A lot of them think that by having an MM page it makes them a model. They think that because someone told them that they are pretty that someone else is going to pay them to take their picture. Most of them will find out pretty quickly that such is not the case. What can be done about it, not much. And there are a lot of people who have a camera, take crappy pictures, and call themselves photographers - and they even make demands about releases, how to contact them, and all kinds of stuff.
Works both ways, other than these togs seem to have a longer lifespan than most models.
Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com
Photographer
Solas
Posts: 10390
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Ironic thread is ironic..
Photographer
Solas
Posts: 10390
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I keep reading and hearing how high unemployment is in the usa, on the radio last night i heard "for every available job in canada there are 6 uni qualified grads..." so ..that bodes well for us in general, anything that stimulates economic activity is a GOOD thing for us as photogs. That means if people are making money we will be  ..or have a better chance. See what i did? Turned your negative into a positive  Another Italian Guy wrote:
Rants belong in Off Topic.
Just my $0.02 etc. etc. Except if you are an italian guy, then you can rant anywhere to the good of the entertainment of all
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24079
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Vector One Photography wrote:
You're new here... or at least haven't posted much. You'll learn, this is a long time discussion around here. This isn't the modeling industry, this is the online modeling industry and the rules and good sense aren't the same.
You'll see more silly stuff happen than just this. Its not really a discussion either, its always been a rant. Seems everyone just loves the free market when it works for them, or everyone loves drumming up how much their work is "worth" but then feelings start to get hurt when people are asking for money to pose.
How dare they! How dare they charge to sign my release! How dare they not shoot with me for free! How dare they work with someone else and now ask for money!
=/
Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com
Photographer
Mark Reeder
Posts: 627
Huntsville, Ontario, Canada
There are plenty of beautiful women in the world to photograph. Don't get too caught up in only dealing with 'models'. If you don't want to pay, don't. Find somebody else.
Photographer
JohnEnger
Posts: 868
Jessheim, Akershus, Norway
Another Italian Guy wrote:
Rants belong in Off Topic. This one has been done to death.
If somebody is willing to pay them, then they will.
Otherwise, we can simply say "NEXT!"
Concentrate your time on improving your own work rather than worrying about what others are doing.
Just my $0.02 etc. etc. +1
And nobody forces you to pay anyone for modelling. And you can't force a model to pose for free. If you are having trouble recruiting, work at it from a different angle, or shoot something else. I have very few models where I live (even paid ones), and that has made me shoot models on my travels. Other than that, I shoot cars, architecture, nature and animals when I'm at home.
J.
Photographer
Jim McSmith
Posts: 794
Edinburgh, Scotland, United Kingdom
As someone who did 90% of my work pre-internet I can say with confidence that the internet has changed the photographer-model relationship profoundly and the reason? Before the internet potential models didn't have to worry so much about the circulation of compromising material around friends and family. People are even worried about fashion shots being used to lampoon them, perhaps due to poor fashion choices or outdated hair styles and so on. Getting models was much easier pre-internet and now it's time to look at other disciplines.
Photographer
Alien LiFe
Posts: 934
San Jose, California, US
still-photography wrote:
Yes, I've experienced it. I thank them for their interest in working with me, and tell them that I'll be in touch if I ever have a budget that will allow me to retain their services.
I've learned that responding "you've got to be f@ck!ng kidding me" doesn't convince them they're being unrealistic. I will say something in this line as well ...
I rarely say some bad things about it - it's just me ... I only want to work with people that want to work with me ... just as simple as that ...
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
VLP essentials wrote:
I am even seeing pro photographers from LA, NY, Miami struggling with this problem...not producing as much models as they did before. I was wondering if any of you are experiencing this situation and what are you doing to handle it. Nope, no problem... if I am doing a project, and I can't find a model that would like to collaborate with me, I would pay a model that fits what I am looking for.
I will never pay an unfit model... and I stopped getting aggravated by such portfolios and rather use them as a moment of wondrous amusement, to brighten my day.
The market place will take care of it anyway... you can demand whatever you want... and the funny thing is... it seems that there is always a dentist with too much cash on hand to experiment with his hobby...
Not my problem...
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 26342
Portland, Oregon, US
VLP essentials wrote:
Hello photog memebers...I have a question. I've been noticing a large volume of average, unpublished, and in some cases ones with bad portfolio that are demanding money right now. I know, if the model looks are amazing...whats wrong with paying? But, it seems to be getting crazy now with the demand for money these days. Almost to the point now that models don't feel that they have to build their ports anymore...just ask for cash...and despite their experience, a large amount of it. I am even seeing pro photographers from LA, NY, Miami struggling with this problem...not producing as much models as they did before. I was wondering if any of you are experiencing this situation and what are you doing to handle it. Don't worry about it.
... If you don't want to pay a model, you don't have to.
... If she gets paid jobs, more power to her.
... If she doesn't get paid jobs,
--- She'll either figure it out, or
--- She'll get out of the business.
In any case, problem solved.
(I also doubt that these frequent, incredulous threads about "unworthy" models demanding payment do any good).
Photographer
Mikey McMichaels
Posts: 3356
New York, New York, US
VLP essentials wrote:
Hello photog memebers...I have a question. I've been noticing a large volume of average, unpublished, and in some cases ones with bad portfolio that are demanding money right now. I know, if the model looks are amazing...whats wrong with paying? But, it seems to be getting crazy now with the demand for money these days. Almost to the point now that models don't feel that they have to build their ports anymore...just ask for cash...and despite their experience, a large amount of it. I am even seeing pro photographers from LA, NY, Miami struggling with this problem...not producing as much models as they did before. I was wondering if any of you are experiencing this situation and what are you doing to handle it. How do you know the photos are bad and that it's not just an issue of your taste?
Model
Agatha D
Posts: 117
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Yep. Now that I am browsing this site more it has been a huge wake up call. I know that I personally need to add to and improve my port. I think many models and photographers alike could benefit from building ports and getting more experience. Having done a lot more fetish video content than still nude and fetish still photography, I would like to improve my port before going to people and asking for paid work again.
That being said, I think it is ok to get experience through paid work as well. So I post that I am available for that, but TF is something I am open to now that I had not considered as much before and that is why I changed my approach to that.
I wonder how other models feel on this matter. I think it is beneficial to be critical of one's self and to compare your work to other's who have a lot of published and dynamite content.
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
udor wrote:
Nope, no problem... if I am doing a project, and I can't find a model that would like to collaborate with me, I would pay a model that fits what I am looking for.
I will never pay an unfit model... and I stopped getting aggravated by such portfolios and rather use them as a moment of wondrous amusement, to brighten my day.
The market place will take care of it anyway... you can demand whatever you want... and the funny thing is... it seems that there is always a dentist with too much cash on hand to experiment with his hobby...
Not my problem... Economics is beautiful
Photographer
Richard Allen Photo
Posts: 3663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US
Looknsee Photography wrote:
Don't worry about it.
... If you don't want to pay a model, you don't have to.
... If she gets paid jobs, more power to her.
... If she doesn't get paid jobs,
--- She'll either figure it out, or
--- She'll get out of the business.
In any case, problem solved.
(I also doubt that these frequent, incredulous threads about "unworthy" models demanding payment do any good). This. +1
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 6209
San Diego, California, US
VLP essentials wrote:
I was wondering if any of you are experiencing this situation and what are you doing to handle it. I try to find those lacking in delusion.
Photographer
In Balance Photography
Posts: 3378
Boston, Massachusetts, US
I try not to worry about the people I don't want to work with.
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..or have a better chance. 
