TJ Photo wrote:
As I glance occasionally at the tags on a model's page, I often notice tags from photographers simply posting "Let's Shoot" or a similar comment.  I think that's lame and discourteous. No compliment on the model's look or praise of their portfolio, just that weak "let's shoot". If you're really interested in a model and want to set up a shoot, the courteous thing to do is to message them, compliment what you like about them, and lay out the details of what you have in mind.  It doesn't have to be lengthy, but a mere "let's shoot" seems totally unprofessional and suggests you're just tagging lots of models with minimal effort.

I share your opinion.

Why do photographers react so differently when a retoucher leaves a work availability tag on their page?

I agree there are surely much better ways to approach members for finding work opportunities than tagging “Let’s Work”, especially a model’s page who happens to live in a different part of the world!

The following is a comment by a female model responding to a recent thread in the Newbie Forum:
“Another thing is when a female model's profile is activated, they already have comments on tags on their profiles, and probably lots of messages and friend requests. (I know, that was the case with me).”

For me, members who have nothing constructive to contribute who simply make curt comments such as “Slow Sunday, huh?” or express a disrespectful opinion that what they think of your opinion is that “you are a bit too worked up about this” are simply highlighting their self-indulgent verbosity.

Just like to finish by saying to any models who happen to be reading this thread, please feel free to comment.

Camera Buff wrote:
I share your opinion.

Why do photographers react so differently when a retoucher leaves a work availability tag on their page?

I agree there are surely much better ways to approach members for finding work opportunities than tagging “Let’s Work”, especially a model’s page who happens to live in a different part of the world!

The following is a comment by a female model responding to a recent thread in the Newbie Forum:
“Another thing is when a female model's profile is activated, they already have comments on tags on their profiles, and probably lots of messages and friend requests. (I know, that was the case with me).”

For me, members who have nothing constructive to contribute who simply make curt comments such as “Slow Sunday, huh?” or express a disrespectful opinion that what they think of your opinion is that “you are a bit too worked up about this” are simply highlighting their self-indulgent verbosity.

Just like to finish by saying to any models who happen to be reading this thread, please feel free to comment.

Now use the other hand, pretend it's a stranger.

Lucifers_Corner wrote:
Now use the other hand, pretend it's a stranger.

Thank you for sharing your secret into personal self-gratification. Definitely your cleverest comment to date. Such a shame we’re not in the thread about masturbation.

Lucifers_Corner wrote:

Now use the other hand, pretend it's a stranger.

What a juvenile and snarky comment.  Is that really the best you can do?  Pathetic.

Model MoRina wrote:
The cause of this problem (if it is indeed a problem) is that you have to be friends to message a model. This forces models to accept every friend request in order to even start a conversation. It is a flawed system. I can't imagine being offended by a tag saying "let's shoot" though. This is a networking site. Or was, anyway. 🤨

Agreed, that's the main problem, but I agree that "Tags" are often pretty mindless, and uninviting too I'd imagine.

Camera Buff wrote:

Thank you for sharing your secret into personal self-gratification. Definitely your cleverest comment to date. Such a shame we’re not in the thread about masturbation.

Then why the verbal gushing?

TJ Photo wrote:

What a juvenile and snarky comment.  Is that really the best you can do?  Pathetic.

As we all think about your post.

Pathetic.
Useless.
Silly.

I debate with my peers; all others get clowned.

Modelphilia wrote:
Agreed, that's the main problem, but I agree that "Tags" are often pretty mindless, and uninviting too I'd imagine.

Not sure what makes you think we have to be Friends to message a model?  That's not my experience.  I've messaged models without being "friends" at that point and never ran into any block to messaging a model other than the limits of how many messages can be sent in a day.

Lucifers_Corner wrote:

As we all think about your post.

Pathetic.
Useless.
Silly.

I debate with my peers; all others get clowned.

Wow, you are definitely arrogant and hostile.  When you use the royal "we," I guess that means you speak for EVERYONE in the world except me.  As for your "peers," do you mean other pretentious, self-absorbed amateurs who have yet to show quality, professional or distinguished photography?  Talk about clowning.  Mellow out, and see if you can improve your work.

Camera Buff wrote:

Thank you for sharing your secret into personal self-gratification. Definitely your cleverest comment to date. Such a shame we’re not in the thread about masturbation.

Your thoughtful and relevant comments don't seem to penetrate the concrete skulls of certain belligerent posters who seem to have a lot of free time to troll, vent some bile, and act superior when they're definitely not.

Roaring 20s wrote:
this is amusing because not only are profile comments a leftover from 2006, so is your opinion about commenting on her looks instead 😆😆😆😆

not worth having a strong opinion on. "let's shoot" matches the kinds of comments seen on social media posts, "let's collab", commenting on looks as a preface to that point would be seen as thirsty and uncouth, not "polite". keep it simple has been in vogue for a long time, your suggested replacement reads like a satire on the Victorian Era at this point best reserved for a Renaissance Fair

Yeah, it's real prehistoric to actually write a complete sentence or deal courteously with models.  If you think the quick, impersonal, empty-headed posts like "let's shoot" are the trend and match social media conduct, well, maybe you've failed to recognize that trend is lame.  Keep it simple-minded, eh?  People who type with their thumbs want to get it done without investing more time or personal contact.  I get it.  But don't give me the dismissive slam about me being so foolishly outdated or I might have to refer you back to the "Roaring 20s" [sic]

TJ Photo wrote:
Not sure what makes you think we have to be Friends to message a model?  That's not true.  I've messaged models wiithout being "friends" at that point and never ran into any block to messaging a model other than the limits of how many messages can be sent in a day.

As a basic member I am unable to freely message other members who are not on my Friends List. Any attempt to do so automatically generates a response from MM telling me it’s time for me to upgrade. VIP / paying Members have the necessary power to send messages.

Once-upon-a-time, you only needed to be a basic non-paying member to send messages. However MM decided to change their rules and applied certain restrictions on non-paying members. 

Now don’t hold me to what I am about to say. When the new rules were introduced long time non-paying members (I think may be called Legacy Members) may have retained certain privileges, such as being able to freely send messages. However, if one of these members decided to temporarily close their membership account, they lost privileges. If they decided later to reactivate their free membership account, then although their Profile Page records their original joining date, they fall under the rules that existed at the time they decided to reactivate their account. I am someone who falls into this category.

This could be BS on my part so for anyone who wishes to fact check they will need to check the history books with a long serving moderator.

Camera Buff wrote:
Now don’t hold me to what I am about to say. When the new rules were introduced long time non-paying members (I think may be called Legacy Members) may have retained certain privileges, such as being able to freely send messages. However, if one of these members decided to temporarily close their membership account, they lost privileges. If they decided later to reactivate their free membership account, then although their Profile Page records their original joining date, they fall under the rules that existed at the time they decided to reactivate their account. I am someone who falls into this category.

This could be BS on my part so for anyone who wishes to fact check they will need to check the history books with a long serving moderator.

I haven't heard that until now, but you may be right in your reading of the situation.

Audrey Rinehart wrote:
As someone who worked as a pro model, for a decade before I ever started shooting, I'll say that you don't even have to compliment the model. It's unnecessary and wastes time. Message them with information about: concept, compensation, location (which includes your state, town and studio vs outdoors), as well as timeline. That's literally all that is needed. I shoot models day after day, month after month. Unless a designer books the models, I generally handle that. I never have difficulty finding people for projects, and work with many who are agency-signed fashion models. I think the only time I have started an introductory message with a compliment was for a female model who was bald. I love working with bald women models and it is difficult to find that look, so I did mention. However, her style would be a pivotal part of the concept, so it was very relevant. Keep the initial contact extremely professional, focusing mostly on proposal and logistics. This approach has always had a very high success rate for me personally, and was what I preferred from photographers when I was working as a model. No excess chit-chat, mostly concept and logistics.

And yes, just tagging, "Let's shoot" is pointless, because it provides little to no information about what or how you would like to build a shoot with that individual

Your perspective is interesting, as someone who has worked as both a model and a photographer, but your comments are somewhat conflicting.  You say tags like "let's shoot" are pointless, providing little information.  Of course.  You say compliments are "unnecessary and waste time".  I fail to see how compliments are a waste of time, since a few words of courtesy and compliments are a human element in establishing rapport with a prospective model.  Then you say to keep the initial contact professional, focusing on the proposed shoot details.  You recommend providing all the relevant details of a shoot.  I think a more brief summary is sufficient in the initial contact, which can be expanded once the model responds to express true interest.  In my experience contacting models here and in other contexts, many of them turn out to be unreliable or flaky enough that it's a waste of time to provide much detail until the model demonstrates they're professional in return.

Anyway, your comments make clear that the "let's shoot" tag is of no value, but I assume you also mean that it's unprofessional and discourteous since it wastes the model's time and devalues her/him with a brief, empty offer.  I'm glad you brought up the kind of information you believe a model would want if they're serious about taking decent shoot offers and knowing what's to be involved.

TJ Photo wrote:

Wow, you are definitely arrogant and hostile.  When you use the royal "we," I guess that means you speak for EVERYONE in the world except me.  As for your "peers," do you mean other pretentious, self-absorbed amateurs who have yet to show quality, professional or distinguished photography?  Talk about clowning.  Mellow out, and see if you can improve your work.

Dude, I don't GAF about your tantrum.

TJ Photo wrote:
don't give me the dismissive slam about me being so foolishly outdated or I might have to refer you back to the "Roaring 20s" [sic]

😆😆😆 we're in the roaring 20s now sir, in the 21st century

TJ Photo wrote:
Anyway, your comments make clear that the "let's shoot" tag is of no value, but I assume you also mean that it's unprofessional and discourteous since it wastes the model's time and devalues her/him with a brief, empty offer.  I'm glad you brought up the kind of information you believe a model would want if they're serious about taking decent shoot offers and knowing what's to be involved.

Complimenting the model wastes YOUR own time, because the photographer and/or content creator spends 5 minutes thinking about what they want to say and typing it, when they could just send relevant details, such as:

"Hi, Suzie Q. I'm a beauty/fine art/whatever genre photographer, putting together a shoot for date/time, at location XYZ. The compensation for this shoot will be TFP/$$ amount/tearsheet from Mag*, to be delivered to participating models within X weeks of shoot day. Please see my work at www.place.things and let me know if you'd be interested in participating. Wardrobe and makeup will be provided by XYZ collaborators, and you can see their work at styling&clothes.random site. Thank you!"

A drive-by tag also wastes your own time, because again, people spend time typing it and posting it when it can come across to models as very unserious and unfocused. Different models react different ways to compliments, but I will say that I have spent the past 20 years behind and in front of cameras, and pretty much everyone loves an organized, concise project proposal. If you have a moodboard already put together, ready to email out after the first response of interest from a model, even better.

It might come across as discourteous to some, and not to others -- but chit-chat back and forth without a goal directed approach is almost always a waste of *someone's* time

Audrey Rinehart wrote:
Complimenting the model wastes YOUR own time, because the photographer and/or content creator spends 5 minutes thinking about what they want to say and typing it, when they could just send relevant details, such as:

"Hi, Suzie Q. I'm a beauty/fine art/whatever genre photographer, putting together a shoot for date/time, at location XYZ. The compensation for this shoot will be TFP/$$ amount/tearsheet from Mag*, to be delivered to participating models within X weeks of shoot day. Please see my work at www.place.things and let me know if you'd be interested in participating. Wardrobe and makeup will be provided by XYZ collaborators, and you can see their work at styling&clothes.random site. Thank you!"

Yes, sending that info in a message would be ideal,
but it is not possible for many basic account holders to do that, as it seems MM limits who they can send messages to.
and that would be a long and pointless drive by tag.

Lucifers_Corner wrote:
Dude, I don't GAF about your tantrum.

Of course you don't.  (Or pretend you don't, while hostile again.) You're too full of yourself and too overflowing with bile to deal with incoming critique.  Again, a trumpian projection on your part.  How's life in the corner, Luci?

Chris Macan wrote:

Yes, sending that info in a message would be ideal,
but it is not possible for many basic account holders to do that, as it seems MM limits who they can send messages to.
and that would be a long and pointless drive by tag.

I'm not sure if she's still referring to a tag.  That's the kind of message that is more fitting in a direct message.  Trying to put details into a tag seems like something a tag is not meant for. Besides, a tag with all those details would reveal a photographer's shoot process to everyone viewing the Tag content, which I think should remain between the photographer and the model only.  So I was always proposing shoot details go through a direct message, not a tag. But I understand some members may not be able to send a message to the model if there hasn't been a "friend" relationship set up.  I didn't realize that until recently.

Roaring 20s wrote:
"let's collab", commenting on looks as a preface to that point would be seen as thirsty and uncouth, not "polite".

"your suggested replacement reads like a satire on the Victorian Era at this point best reserved for a Renaissance Fair"

Roaring 20s opinions suggest he is using Modern Era Google Ai to help him to express his opinions, rather than use his own authentic, engaging writing.

Excerpts from Google Ai:
A "satire on the victorian era" and "best reserved for a renaissance fair"

I was also able to find Ai’s definition for the phrase “thirsty and uncouth” which needed translation, as it’s not a commonly used expression in my neck of the woods!

All that remains is to have Roaring 20s highlight for me the tweet of the OP's that relates to "Your suggested replacement reads like a satire."

Camera Buff wrote:

Roaring 20s opinions suggest he is using Modern Era Google Ai to help him to express his opinions, rather than use his own authentic, engaging writing.

Excerpts from Google Ai:
A "satire on the victorian era" and "best reserved for a renaissance fair"

I was also able to find Ai’s definition for the phrase “thirsty and uncouth” which needed translation, as it’s not a commonly used expression in my neck of the woods!

All that remains is to have Roaring 20s highlight for me the tweet of the OP's that relates to "Your suggested replacement reads like a satire."

Ah, I should have suspected.  It's reached the point where we can't tell easily what's genuine/original and what's been produced by some AI app.  I guess that demonstrates that the Roaring One is actually not in any century but just devoid of imagination and unable to communicate without the help of some app.  Maybe I could get a job writing snarky text to use in programming AI-Hole.

Camera Buff wrote:
My spin on Audrey's wording suggestion. For those of us who need to have our FR accepted before we can message another member.

Hi (Model’s Name)
How are you?
You look so amazing in your photographs! 
I will be in your City for all of next week and would love to do a portrait photoshoot with you while I’m in town.
Please let me know if you’re up for a shoot, I would be thrilled!
I look forward to hearing back from you,
(Photographer’s name)
For further information, please accept my pending Friend Request.


Info sourced from - How to DM Instagram Models for Photoshoots:
https://stemplewski.wixsite.com/mysite/ … hotoshoots

That seems like too much for a tag just to persuade the model to accept a FR.  I don't know if my experience is typical, but I normally leave a simple complimentary tag on a model's page--something like "You have a great look, with an excellent face and body combination.  Some nice images in your portfolio as well"--or maybe one or two short comments on individual images in the port.  Then I click on the FR button.  It seems like most of the time, my FR is accepted, assuming the model is active on the site.  I do that pretty often, and it's rarely as a prelude to pitching a shoot to the model.  I just want to offer a sincere compliment to a model I believe deserves it.

TJ Photo wrote:
That seems like too much for a tag just to persuade the model to accept a FR.  I don't know if my experience is typical, but I normally leave a simple complimentary tag on a model's page--something like "You have a great look, with an excellent face and body combination.  Some nice images in your portfolio as well"--or maybe one or two short comments on individual images in the port.  Then I click on the FR button.  It seems like most of the time, my FR is accepted, assuming the model is active on the site.  I do that pretty often, and it's rarely as a prelude to pitching a shoot to the model.  I just want to offer a sincere compliment to a model I believe deserves it.

To tell the obvious truth as witnessed by the numbers in my Friends List,  I am not a SME when it comes to attempting to persuade anyone to do anything. That said when it comes to sending FRs to models I really don't see much point in collecting thousands of mostly female Friends.

I do try to leave intelligent comments on the photographs I like, which creatives rarely respond to in kind. Which is totally okay, because I realise I played a part in generating the return comment.  So while I appreciate the sentiment I often delete comments I receive under such circumstances. Besides I don't want the occasional viewer who accidentally happens to be viewing my amateur hour pics to be too easily distracted away by the excellent Avatars that accompany comments.

Do yourself a favour and read the 'About Me' bios of the two female models on my Friends List. Try not to be distracted by the quality of the images in their professionally curated portfolios, it's their well written bios that outline their approach to their work that is key behind why I appreciate being able to click on their FRs to quickly find their ports again to see what they have done, are in the process of doing and are planning to do next.

In defence of my proposed wording. I am not sending a compliment or fishing for a casual acceptance of a FR. It suggests that due pending travel plans I require a quick response to my photo shoot invitation and that they will need to accept my FR to allow time for arrangements to be organised. I agree that I can/could shorten my FR's wording to exclude the introductory niceties such as the "how are you?" and and compliments like how they look in their pictures. Which is the very reason behind why I would be sending them a FR in the first place. It sad to read that today people may think that what I've suggested for a FR is wasting time. And a simple Tag saying "Let's shoot! If interested, accept my FR." will and would suffice.

Anyway check out the attached instagram link in my previous post, which goes into various 'what and whys' about how things can be said.

Chris Macan wrote:
Yes, sending that info in a message would be ideal,
but it is not possible for many basic account holders to do that, as it seems MM limits who they can send messages to.
and that would be a long and pointless drive by tag.

TJ Photo wrote:
I'm not sure if she's still referring to a tag.  That's the kind of message that is more fitting in a direct message.  Trying to put details into a tag seems like something a tag is not meant for. Besides, a tag with all those details would reveal a photographer's shoot process to everyone viewing the Tag content, which I think should remain between the photographer and the model only.  So I was always proposing shoot details go through a direct message, not a tag. But I understand some members may not be able to send a message to the model if there hasn't been a "friend" relationship set up.  I didn't realize that until recently.

Yes, that was my point.
The poster I was replying to doesn't seem to get that not all users can send private messages to non friends.

Although inf we are being honest,
drive by tags were a thing even when all users had full access to the messaging system.