Forums > Model Colloquy > A question for models...

Photographer

GSmithPhoto

Posts: 749

Alameda, California, US

If you were writing a "Code of Conduct" for photographers, what would you like to see included?

For instance, other than a handshake when I first meet the model in person, I make sure never to initiate physical contact with the model - giving her a minimum of two arm lengths of space at all times.

Let's see what models want in order to be comfortable.

Sep 26 23 06:10 am Link

Photographer

AlaskanSeaAdventure

Posts: 12

Apache Junction, Arizona, US

That's a good one.

One that I think would be a good one is always keep the models safety in mind.  Shooting close to the edge of something, be mindful of where they are stepping and maybe have them step closer or something.  Making sure they don't trip and fall.  If there are other people around, keeping an eye on them is a must.  Just saw a youtube video where they had a belligerent guy come up and personally throw insults at the model and photographer.  Yes Cops had to be called.

I am out of Arizona, so always having sealed bottles of water available along with sun screen if shooting outdoors.  Or taking the weather into consideration.  If the temps are going to be above 90 degrees, try to shoot in the morning or in the shade rather than late afternoon.

Sep 26 23 11:47 am Link

Photographer

rGlenndonShoots

Posts: 89

Atlanta, Georgia, US

GSmithPhoto wrote:
A question for models…
Let's see what models want in order to be comfortable.

Models?
The floor is yours. Have your say. Some of us are listening.

Sep 27 23 04:53 am Link

Photographer

Nor-Cal Photography

Posts: 3719

Walnut Creek, California, US

Hands off. Don't think two arm lengths is necessary in most situations.

But just one worthless opinion.

smile

Sep 27 23 10:08 pm Link

Model

MatureModelMM

Posts: 2843

Detroit, Michigan, US

Since I model naked for artists and photographers, among the most important things I need is assurance of my safety at all times.  The vulnerability that a model experiences is significant, and those who have never modelled naked don't always appreciate that fact, but models have to accept that as the reality of the job.  Having the creative people we model for respect that vulnerability is very important.  Having other people present while I am unclothed is very important to me since there is safety in numbers. I like it when the photographer or artist has an assistant present, and having at least three or four people there including myself is perfect for my comfort.  Anyone who doesn't allow a model to be chaperoned while she is unclothed is not someone I would consider posing for. My most comfortable modelling situation would be in an art gallery figure drawing session or in a college class studio for photography or art where there are numerous people present.

As already mentioned, unwanted physical contact is definitely a bad thing and a huge red flag.  However, I am perfectly OK with being gently and respectfully assisted into position for poses, provided that permission is asked first and there is no inappropriate touching. There is a huge difference between those two situations and there are times when it is just easier to allow someone to adjust my position when they have something specific in mind that may not always be easy to convey in words.  Of course being shown reference photos or drawings of the poses being requested can also be very helpful, but not enough people bother to do that.

The final very important thing that I want is informed consent for the sorts of poses and photos that we will be doing.  I need to know ahead of time what the intent of the photo or art modelling is for that day, and how I will be expected to pose, and what type of photos or artwork are likely to result.  Then if discussion is necessary to clarify anything, it can take place, limits can be set and so on, and consent will be given for what we have agreed upon. I don't like or appreciate surprises or dramatic changes to the things we had agreed upon.

Sep 28 23 06:27 am Link

Model

Liv Sage

Posts: 431

Seattle, Washington, US

Be upfront in pre-shoot communications. Opening a wallet in my face to request erotic content when I do not do erotic content (I've had this happen), is in extremely poor taste.
Please be upfront about the content you're trying to shoot when emailing me. That way we do not waste time if it's beyond my limits. It's also in extremely poor taste to attempt to harass/argue a model into shooting content beyond their limits with you when they've clearly stated they are not interested.
There are plenty of models who do all sorts of content. It is very simple to hire them to do that. Haggling the ones who don't into it is strange.

Think carefully about the locations you choose.
Is it near an elementary school? Not good.
Is it in a public place where the model will be risking arrest by posing there? Not good unless you are going at 5am on a weekday and shooting VERY quickly. Even then, that can be tricky.
Is it extremely cold? It is unhealthy to shoot nude for long periods of time in very cold temperatures.
Is it physically unsafe - tons of bugs everywhere, precarious conditions for posing, on the side of a cliff? It's unreasonable to expect a model will be okay with this. Some might be, but this should be stated upfront in pre-shoot communications.

It is normal to need to take a quick bathroom break during a shoot. Getting upset about this will ensure that most professionals will not work with you again. Timing the bathroom breaks is also weird. I understand being annoyed if a model goes to the bathroom for 20 minutes in the middle of a 2 hour shoot. But for a quick pee break, this should be a non issue.

Do not bring people to a shoot that you did not tell a model would be there. Especially if it's multiple men. Again, pre-shoot communication is important. If I arrived to a shoot and saw men I was not told about, I would leave as that's an extreme safety risk to me.

Please do not send extremely long emails talking about your personal life when you've never even met the model. Possibly even if you have if it was a simple, professional relationship. At a certain point, this will become exhausting, and the model will ignore you. It is not appropriate to react with anger to a young model not answering 5-paragraph long emails about your medications, divorce proceedings, etc. I have ignored booking emails before that went into exhaustive detail about divorce proceedings and medical events because I simply don't know where to begin in response.
I tend to not be a person who constantly recommends therapy, but this is the sort of information you share with close friends, family, or therapists. Or a priest or pastor. A young, probably female, model you've never met or only met once or twice is not the person to unload on.
If you've known one another for years and have a longer term, close working relationship or friendship, this does not necessarily apply. For models you do not know well however, it does.

Physical contact. Do not touch a model without permission. Do not try to physically "pose me." I am very capable of posing myself both with and without direction, and explaining the pose will suffice. Trying to manhandle me into a pose will ensure that I never work with you again. It is best to stay a normal distance from the model. If you would not do it to a stranger at the grocery, you should not do it to me either.
Caveat that I don't mind giving a hug to photographers I have known over the course of years. Some models do not do hugs though, so just be aware of that.

Showing us photos of your genitalia is also not appreciated.

Also, I'm going to end this list by saying that, fortunately, the vast majority of my shoots have been lovely over the years with no strange incidents.

Sep 30 23 12:37 pm Link

Photographer

Weldphoto

Posts: 844

Charleston, South Carolina, US

Liv Sage wrote:
Also, I'm going to end this list by saying that, fortunately, the vast majority of my shoots have been lovely over the years with no strange incidents.

That is important for all of us to hear and remember. I'm glad you are able to say that. The few swine who treat models disrespectfully are bad for us all. But, thankfully, they are a few in number.  The relationship between a photographer and a model can be warm, productive, enjoyable and safe. I have had the joy of many fun, stress free shoots with models, some who have been comfortable enough to stay at my house for a few days! No nonsense, no suggestive behavior -just mutual respect. I suspect most here have had similar experiences. I hope Liv's words are taken to heart and she would feel comfortable shooting with any one of us.

Sep 30 23 03:05 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45198

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Liv Sage wrote:
Be upfront in pre-shoot communications. Opening a wallet in my face to request erotic content when I do not do erotic content (I've had this happen), is in extremely poor taste.
Please be upfront about the content you're trying to shoot when emailing me. That way we do not waste time if it's beyond my limits. It's also in extremely poor taste to attempt to harass/argue a model into shooting content beyond their limits with you when they've clearly stated they are not interested.
There are plenty of models who do all sorts of content. It is very simple to hire them to do that. Haggling the ones who don't into it is strange.

Think carefully about the locations you choose.
Is it near an elementary school? Not good.
Is it in a public place where the model will be risking arrest by posing there? Not good unless you are going at 5am on a weekday and shooting VERY quickly. Even then, that can be tricky.
Is it extremely cold? It is unhealthy to shoot nude for long periods of time in very cold temperatures.
Is it physically unsafe - tons of bugs everywhere, precarious conditions for posing, on the side of a cliff? It's unreasonable to expect a model will be okay with this. Some might be, but this should be stated upfront in pre-shoot communications.

It is normal to need to take a quick bathroom break during a shoot. Getting upset about this will ensure that most professionals will not work with you again. Timing the bathroom breaks is also weird. I understand being annoyed if a model goes to the bathroom for 20 minutes in the middle of a 2 hour shoot. But for a quick pee break, this should be a non issue.

Do not bring people to a shoot that you did not tell a model would be there. Especially if it's multiple men. Again, pre-shoot communication is important. If I arrived to a shoot and saw men I was not told about, I would leave as that's an extreme safety risk to me.

Please do not send extremely long emails talking about your personal life when you've never even met the model. Possibly even if you have if it was a simple, professional relationship. At a certain point, this will become exhausting, and the model will ignore you. It is not appropriate to react with anger to a young model not answering 5-paragraph long emails about your medications, divorce proceedings, etc. I have ignored booking emails before that went into exhaustive detail about divorce proceedings and medical events because I simply don't know where to begin in response.
I tend to not be a person who constantly recommends therapy, but this is the sort of information you share with close friends, family, or therapists. Or a priest or pastor. A young, probably female, model you've never met or only met once or twice is not the person to unload on.
If you've known one another for years and have a longer term, close working relationship or friendship, this does not necessarily apply. For models you do not know well however, it does.

Physical contact. Do not touch a model without permission. Do not try to physically "pose me." I am very capable of posing myself both with and without direction, and explaining the pose will suffice. Trying to manhandle me into a pose will ensure that I never work with you again. It is best to stay a normal distance from the model. If you would not do it to a stranger at the grocery, you should not do it to me either.
Caveat that I don't mind giving a hug to photographers I have known over the course of years. Some models do not do hugs though, so just be aware of that.

Showing us photos of your genitalia is also not appreciated.

Also, I'm going to end this list by saying that, fortunately, the vast majority of my shoots have been lovely over the years with no strange incidents.

Thank you for a well written and appreciated response to the OP's question.  I wish every photographer would read your response. It would be helpful if they can understand that much of working with models, or anyone for that matter, is about communication.  I've thought about doing a seminar on how to comunicate and work with models for those photographers that are not clear on the points you've made.

Sep 30 23 05:03 pm Link

Model

Liv Sage

Posts: 431

Seattle, Washington, US

Weldphoto wrote:

That is important for all of us to hear and remember. I'm glad you are able to say that. The few swine who treat models disrespectfully are bad for us all. But, thankfully, they are a few in number.  The relationship between a photographer and a model can be warm, productive, enjoyable and safe. I have had the joy of many fun, stress free shoots with models, some who have been comfortable enough to stay at my house for a few days! No nonsense, no suggestive behavior -just mutual respect. I suspect most here have had similar experiences. I hope Liv's words are taken to heart and she would feel comfortable shooting with any one of us.

I feel the need to say that because I do realize reading these sorts of things some photographers might get the idea that our lives are filled with tales of horror and regret. I think some models have it much more difficult than me, and it's in no way meant to diminish that.
But overall I've had good experiences, and I really enjoy my job. I got a bit burned out around 4-5 years ago, but I took it a bit slow those years to recover and was fine thereafter. Thank you by the way!

Sep 30 23 09:43 pm Link