Mark Salo wrote:
I'm 75. Models ask me about my health and expect me to sign a liability waiver.

+1

Mark Salo wrote:
I'm 75. Models ask me about my health and expect me to sign a liability waiver.

Sometimes they help you carry gear too.

Mark Salo wrote:
I'm 75. Models ask me about my health and expect me to sign a liability waiver.

There may be some small risk, but I'd rather go doing what I love. :-)  I'd sign it.

Mark Salo wrote:
I'm 75. Models ask me about my health and expect me to sign a liability waiver.

Model MoRina wrote:
Sometimes they help you carry gear too.

Yes, thank you Mo.

TLVPhoto wrote:
I think a couple people may have missed, or I did a bad job explaining. The information a model provided, if they did, I would NEVER see. It would never be required. Only if there is a problem the EMS is the only ones that would see it.

No, I would not ask a plumber, or any other person that came into my house to do repairs. A valid point I did not consider. However, I am more concerned with the model then the plumber

It was just something that came to mind while I was sitting around doing nothing.

I think "we" did see it.  (I know I did)  But the "only used in case of emergency doesn't" change anything.  They are still supplying the information.  If a restaurant / hotel / grocery store / shopping center.... asked me to fill in such info, "In case I pass out at their establishment.... but not used otherwise" I would walk away and find those services elswhere.  (Obviously Gyms / massage / doctors and such where the service can be detrimental due to some underlying condition are different)  A photoshoot (unless involving something super streneous   like a Mermaid shoot underwater for extended periods of time...) should not warrant a health form.

TLVPhoto wrote:
My second question, if a photographer requested, not required, you fill out one of those quick medical forms, like you would fill out to get a massage, place it in a sealed envelope and made it accessible during the shoot (not in the bottom of your purse or bag) in case there is a problem and you are not able to respond to only be opened my EMS when they arrive, how would feel about that?

The model(s) will probably think "What's next, a pelvic exam?" (For medical purposes only, wink wink)

Most massage therapists are considered to be working in the medical field and they are doing things to the clients body which can affect the persons medical conditions so it's important for them to know a persons medical conditions.  They also most likely went through a HIPAA certification which assures that the practitioner adheres to strict rules regarding keeping their clients medical information private.  The people that work in their office also have to have the same HIPAA certification.

I don't think anyone wants to open THAT can of worms over a photoshoot.

TLVPhoto wrote:
The reason I ask is because I have had a couple models let me know while shooting they needed to take a break and eat because of their blood sugar. There was one model that said she always has an escort because she has had seizures and her escort knows how to handle them.

That's very nice of them to VOLUNTARILY give a 'heads up' in advance and it's probably to their advantage, but it shouldn't be a requirement for anyone to divulge that information.  In many situations it may even be illegal to ask that kind of information (ie: ADA laws allow a person to ask if they require assistance but prohibits the person from asking "why are you disabled" or "what's wrong with you?")

TLVPhoto wrote:
I think a couple people may have missed, or I did a bad job explaining. The information a model provided, if they did, I would NEVER see. It would never be required. Only if there is a problem the EMS is the only ones that would see it.

No, I would not ask a plumber, or any other person that came into my house to do repairs. A valid point I did not consider. However, I am more concerned with the model then the plumber

It was just something that came to mind while I was sitting around doing nothing.

I understood that. And I understand you have no ill intention, but it's just paternalistic. And that could possibly make some models choose not to work with you.

Model MoRina wrote:
I understood that. And I understand you have no ill intention, but it's just paternalistic. And that could possibly make some models choose not to work with you.

I understand the intent of the original OP, but this is accurate. If a photographer sent me ANYTHING related to my medical info with a form to fill out, I would feel extremely weird and not answer any further emails. In the abstract/hypothetical, I get it. But in practice, that would feel extraordinarily invasive and the "but the photographer wouldn't even see that info, only EMS would" would make me feel even weirder. Not better.

It's a nice thought, but you can easily call EMS in an emergency without this sort of information.

Express Unlimited wrote:
I think it's up to the model and may not often be relevant

Personally I have a Service dog so i have to tell about that - now that I am a photographer I need my clients to be OK with him.  When I was a model i just scheduled shoots around my medical needs and it never really came up.


I have also hired models with kidney and heart or severe breathing medical conditions but there were no issues at the shoots - and they didn't tell me until they got to know me.
I wasn't too happy to find out at a shoot / just after, that (another of them) had a severe mental health issue she had not told me about... If it's going to impact the shoot it ought to be out in the open head of time. 
Just like if you cant hike, don't book 5 miles into the woods - and if you are scared of heights don't book on edge of a skyscraper rooftop!!!

The reason the person did not tell you of the severe mental health problem is because they were sensible enough to realise they would not have gotten the job if they had told you. People are motivated by self interest to some degree and anyway why would a mental health problem impact a photoshoot? I am glad publishers don't do that or there would be no authors left many have some problems minor or otherwise. I personally know 2 autistic authors and met 1 with a fatal disease and most don't bother to say and why should they. No one asks will you keel over at a book signing. Sorry but this is just weird in most creative areas abnormality is the norm.

Express Unlimited wrote:
I think it's up to the model and may not often be relevant

Personally I have a Service dog so i have to tell about that - now that I am a photographer I need my clients to be OK with him.  When I was a model i just scheduled shoots around my medical needs and it never really came up.


I have also hired models with kidney and heart or severe breathing medical conditions but there were no issues at the shoots - and they didn't tell me until they got to know me.
I wasn't too happy to find out at a shoot / just after, that (another of them) had a severe mental health issue she had not told me about... If it's going to impact the shoot it ought to be out in the open head of time. 
Just like if you cant hike, don't book 5 miles into the woods - and if you are scared of heights don't book on edge of a skyscraper rooftop!!!

I've photographed people at weddings. When it comes to working with models, I've photographed hundreds, and probably shot thousands of portraits in the past 40 years.  I never gave it a thought because there never was an incident that occured while I was photographing at which time I had to deal with someone's health issues.  It has always been that way until recently. 

She had a medical emergency shortly after we finished shooting in which she became very ill.  She also happened to be a friend and I listened to her as to what to do at that moment, but I sure do wish I had known of her condition before this happened.  We had shot a couple times before, so it wasn't like she was new to me.  So I have considered the importance of everyone having a contact in case of emergency number, plus other information related to allergies, etc is something that should be accessible to each other.  It is a very smart idea, but also a personal choice. 

You have a service dog, and I love animals!  I am living with congestive heart failure, however it's not something a person can normally see.  Hiking 5 miles into the woods is something I would definitely have to take in consideration my own abilities.  I can walk an hour fairly well on flat or low grade hills, but my mountain climbing days are over.  Your experience as a model previous to picking up the camera gives you more understanding and empathy that many photographers may not have.  We should communicate what is important without giving up too much of our privacy.

Liv Sage wrote:
I understand the intent of the original OP, but this is accurate. If a photographer sent me ANYTHING related to my medical info with a form to fill out, I would feel extremely weird and not answer any further emails. In the abstract/hypothetical, I get it. But in practice, that would feel extraordinarily invasive and the "but the photographer wouldn't even see that info, only EMS would" would make me feel even weirder. Not better.

It's a nice thought, but you can easily call EMS in an emergency without this sort of information.

It is a choice as to what you wish to communicate and any photographer that would request you fill out a form maybe a bit paranoid about communication and working with people.  Having your written emergency contact information on your person (purse) is important for anything that might happen to you (example; car wreck) as your cellphone cannot be dependable for providing that.  I have my medical and contact information in my billfold with my ID.  If you have a medical condition you think could be a concern when you are shooting with a photographer, such as allergies to certain plants or animals (not so much in the photo studio, more possible on locations.) then you might consider disclosing it. 

Models who have potentially more disabling conditions should strongly consider having an assistant with them at shoots. I appreciate invited people at shoots, just tell me of your requirements.  I don't even like to use the word "escorts" but assistants or invited guests is more appropriate I think. There are many wonderful models and photographers working with disabilities.  As for providing information for EMS, I've been in and out of the hospital for my heart condition.  It's just a personal issue for me, but having important medical information readily accessible for EMS can save your life. Who cares if you are doing a shoot or not, a medical emergency can happen anytime!

TLVPhoto wrote:
The reason I ask is because I have had a couple models let me know while shooting they needed to take a break and eat because of their blood sugar.

They sounded like mature adults.

TLVPhoto wrote:
The reason I ask is because I have had a couple models let me know while shooting they needed to take a break and eat because of their blood sugar.

Mark Salo wrote:
They sounded like mature adults.

I was a professional traveling model for more than a decade before I ever picked up a camera. During those years I shot with a number of photographers, whom I identified (rather unfavorably) as "The Robots." These folks wanted to milk every minute out of a half day booking, to the point that it was difficult to get in a pee break or grab a glass of water. I posed in challenging outdoor environments a lot - including nude in cold New England winters, and in scorching desert summers. Sometimes I needed to reapply sunscreen or have a 10 minute water and bathroom break, but occasionally I'd work with a photographer who'd be zooming around frantically, sweating aggressively and just working in a very "hard driving" way. I honestly don't know how some of these types didn't just keel over dead, from not ever eating, drinking or making accommodations for shoots that required hiking into a location.

Thankfully, I was a very healthy person and could put my needs aside and keep working, because at the time, I honestly cared about my reputation more than I cared about my own wellbeing. In hindsight, 10-15 years later, I look back and think that my choice to appease my employer over looking out for my own food/water/rest needs, was absolutely foolish. As a 40 year old photographer today, I never drive my models to the extent we were expected to perform as travelers back in the day.

Good for these people for saying they need a snack. Good for them for asking for breaks and to be treated as human beings. I wish I'd had the wisdom to have used some common sense and self advocacy, back when I was on the touring circuit. My labor and willingness to work hard was exploited more than a handful of times during those years, and now I'm old and wise enough to regret having allowed it to happen.

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), employers cannot ask employees about their health or possible disabilities. However, your employer can ask about your health in two cases: If they suspect you may have a condition that could risk your safety in the workplace or ability to perform your job.

This applies to part-time, as well as full-time employees. Paid models are considered part-time.

Sceloporus wrote:
As to HIPAA, it does not apply to anything in this discussion. HIPAA restricts the release of medical information by health care providers (and some associated businesses). Photographers are not health care providers. Models are not health care providers. HIPAA has no application.

I don't think anyone will doubt that, but you may or may not know that MM Gatekeepers and Moderators have to pass a HIPAA test  to become a moderator or gatekeeper.  I never could figure out why for the reasons that you've stated above, but I guess they want GK's and M's to follow the same privacy standards to avoid any kind of issues in the future.

Al_Vee Photography wrote:

I was a professional traveling model for more than a decade before I ever picked up a camera. During those years I shot with a number of photographers, whom I identified (rather unfavorably) as "The Robots." These folks wanted to milk every minute out of a half day booking, to the point that it was difficult to get in a pee break or grab a glass of water. I posed in challenging outdoor environments a lot - including nude in cold New England winters, and in scorching desert summers. Sometimes I needed to reapply sunscreen or have a 10 minute water and bathroom break, but occasionally I'd work with a photographer who'd be zooming around frantically, sweating aggressively and just working in a very "hard driving" way. I honestly don't know how some of these types didn't just keel over dead, from not ever eating, drinking or making accommodations for shoots that required hiking into a location.

Thankfully, I was a very healthy person and could put my needs aside and keep working, because at the time, I honestly cared about my reputation more than I cared about my own wellbeing. In hindsight, 10-15 years later, I look back and think that my choice to appease my employer over looking out for my own food/water/rest needs, was absolutely foolish. As a 40 year old photographer today, I never drive my models to the extent we were expected to perform as travelers back in the day.

Good for these people for saying they need a snack. Good for them for asking for breaks and to be treated as human beings. I wish I'd had the wisdom to have used some common sense and self advocacy, back when I was on the touring circuit. My labor and willingness to work hard was exploited more than a handful of times during those years, and now I'm old and wise enough to regret having allowed it to happen.

Doing a photo shoot as a photographer can be hard work and quite intense, you can get involved in what you're doing to the point where you don't want to stop. But it's hard work for the model(s) as well, so 10 to 15 minutes for breaks should be factored in for each hour of work. And it's important to remember that different people have different limits.

Who wants to fill in a health questionnaire? I think a lot of models would view that with suspicion as an attempt to gain control, as a form of bullying even.

TLVPhoto wrote:
As a photographer I have a question for models that may or may not have some type of on-going medical condition. (I am not asking what it is you have, please keep that private.) Have you disclosed the issue with the photographer and provided any special instructions in advance in the event something happens while shooting?

Let's see...do you do that with a plumber, carpenter or electrician that comes to your house or studio for a brief scheduled service of their trade? Do you do it for a cleaning service or lawn care worker? All of those pursuits have greater on site risks associated with their work than models do. If you don't ask them, why would you ask a model?

Dan Howell wrote:
Let's see...do you do that with a plumber, carpenter or electrician that comes to your house or studio for a brief scheduled service of their trade? Do you do it for a cleaning service or lawn care worker? All of those pursuits have greater on site risks associated with their work than models do. If you don't ask them, why would you ask a model?

Moreover, would most photographers appreciate the model sending a questionnaire ahead of a photo shoot asking whether he/she had any heart conditions or sexually transmissible diseases? Possibly not.

Weldphoto wrote:
It would be good to know if the model had any food allergies if food is going to be involved and if the model has any phobia issues. I was shooting with a delightful girl in a woods area which was going nicely until she, being closer to the ground, saw a spider or some such critter.  She had a sever phobic reaction which was frightening for all of us. It was genuine and she was terrified. The shoot ended at once and then she told me she had a phobia of spiders. I would have liked to have know ahead of time and would have picked a different location. All ended well, but it could have been avoided if she had told me. Should I have asked ahead of time if she had phobias (is that correct plural?) or allergies? Perhaps, but it never occurred to me. That is quite different from asking for medical history, though, which I do not think is appropriate.

The original post provides an interesting question, but I agree with you.  What it all comes down to is communication.   No model (or photographer for that matter) should be compelled to fill out a medical survey or identify to the other medical conditions that will not likely be an issue for a photo shoot.  Being outdoors or on location can present some unknown factors.  It's an individual decision as to just what one wants to inform another about.

What I think is important is that we should all carry emergency contact information and any medical information that would be helpful if you have a medical emergency where you are not able to communicate to first responders.