|
One of the huge annoyances of life from the photographer's point of view are the models that join Mayhem, spend a week or two weeks, or a month here and, suddenly, you send an "I'd like to work with you note," and you get them a few days after they have already decided they don't like Mayhem. Or whatever. I don't think it's me. Sometimes the last log is days or a couple of weeks before my note.
The thing is, I do a modest number of shoots a year -- less than 20-- so even if I want to work with you, I might not be ready to contact you for a couple of weeks or months. When I get a message from a model, I get an alert to my regular non-Mayhem email inbox. Is this not the default when you join MM? If it isn't, it sure should be! It would diminish the "quitting Mayhem just a bit too soon" problem, I think. Is the problem that models get a zillion non-serious, TFP, or annoying offers, or what? Feb 14 19 06:57 am Link TEB-Art Photo wrote: Some MM models are just trying out the fantasy and eventually the reality of a shoot hits them.. Others -- especially young models who just turned 18 - get swamped with solicitations for porn. Feb 14 19 07:19 am Link Traffic is so slow here nowadays that even if you have good photos, or are very tall, thin and shoot nudes, you still don't necessarily get a lot of shooting options. Models lose interest in dealing with a slow site, when there are far more viable opportunities for networking now elsewhere. You might get a comment here and there on a photo, a handful of friend requests. The process of booking on MM used to move fast and was its own vibrant, fast-paced community. It's not anymore so FAR fewer people use and check it.
Many also give up on MM quickly because you cannot drive traffic to your page here through the same means you use to do that on nearly all other community arts platforms. It is not an integrative community that one can easily "grow." Many photographers who remain on MM now respond very slowly to messages, and younger photographers often consider MM a clunky and outdated communication method (I've communicated with a few who simply won't use MM for discussing shoots past the initial contact). The most active sites in the community, especially for traveling and nude/art models, are now on social media. On MM, I get maybe 2-5 friend requests per week. Extremely rarely do any of those MM members ask about tour dates, or scheduling shoots. Somewhere around 80-90% of the emails I send out to MM members go unanswered and/or unread. Just making reliable contacts here these days is a feat by itself. People here seem so disinterested in actually shooting these days, I can't figure out why they bother to reach out with a friend request in the first place. Compare that with Facebook, where I get upwards of 20 friend requests per day, almost all of them photographers and other traveling models. On any given day, as much as 1/3 of those people follow up with messages asking when I will be in their cities, rates for certain genres, or to express that they are available to host traveling models. Many just want to chat back and forth about photography - which is wonderful, and the way that MM used to be, ten years ago. When I send a message to someone on FB or IG, they nearly always answer - sometimes within a few minutes. Unlike MM, people on social media are actively shooting and booking new shoots, with fast response time and turnover. For the past year, despite daily use of MM, the vast majority of my work has come from social media. I still get some useful contacts here (such as yourself, OP; I'm glad we were able to meet and work together through MM), but the usefulness of this site has declined so dramatically that many people just don't stay on it anymore. Or, they leave their profile open, but abandon it for more fertile ground. I like certain features about MM, but for active models - especially new ones who want to go ahead and book their schedules up and get ports built asap - it is an ancillary resource AT BEST. At worst, it can feel like a total waste of time and energy. Feb 14 19 07:59 am Link Alexandra Vincent wrote: Thanks. I enjoyed working with you. The thing is, I have made a lot of connections here; I'm just frustrated after 3 "disappearing models" in the space of a month. That said, I've made useful connections to 3 models in past 6 months*, which is not too far removed from my needs, which are limited by my limited time/budget.
Feb 14 19 08:44 am Link My shooting quota is about twice a month, and MM allows me to do that quite comfortably. I find it really depends on one's approach, which in my case is: keep it simple, be communicative, polite, and provide TF photos in a timely manner. Most importantly, don't dwell on the disappointments. Note, however, that I have nothing on the line, so I can afford to be rather blasé about the whole process. Feb 14 19 09:04 am Link The only thing you can really do is move on to another model who is seeking to shoot at the same time you are. There are so many things that get in the way of coordinating schedules that I've found it easier to work knowing most messages won't lead to a shoot...and that can be discovered within two or three quick messages. Working with this mindset allows me to focus on scheduling rather than why I can't work with every model who I want to shoot.
As was mentioned above, I think a lot of models sign up thinking they're OK shooting nudes but when their inbox gets filled with messages from creeps and photographers with sketchy portfolios, they think twice about permanently presenting themselves to the world through the lenses of those (mostly) men. I say good for them for taking that second thought and realizing it's not exactly what they want to pursue. Feb 14 19 10:05 am Link Thanks for the replies:
"Wandering": the problem is so many models disappear before I have even connected with them; no chance to "sell myself". When I do connect with a model, better than half of casual models agree, which strikes me as good. "Naakt" "I think a lot of models sign up thinking they're OK shooting nudes but when their inbox gets filled with messages from creeps.." I don't doubt that! But not every project on Mayhem is nude work. Plenty of fashion/light glamour/wedding. Feb 14 19 11:34 am Link Anyone can fill out a free model profile on a whim and upload a few photos. I imagine many were never that serious to start with. I’m sure some drop out when they face actually going to see a phographer they’ve never met the first time. Some probably heard the $100/hour standard rate nonsense and drop out when they don’t get such offers. The bottom line is, modeling simply isn’t their priority.
Whatever the reason, I find most new models will lose interest quickly, so I try to book them for less than a week out. I find if I book a new or inexperienced model more than 2 weeks out the odds are very high the shoot won’t happen. Feb 14 19 11:36 am Link TEB-Art Photo wrote: Well, Instagram is also a graveyard of profiles, it's just the nature of the thing. With a 50% success rate you're already doing better than most of us. Feb 14 19 11:45 am Link TEB-Art Photo wrote: What's even worse are the models that have been on mM for a long time, log in on a regular basis, won't even reply to legitimate gigs and have NOTHING but crappy photos and selfies (which aren't permitted in MM portfolios). It only makes me wonder what their purpose for being on MM is. Feb 14 19 12:16 pm Link I think L.A. is still good. Sometimes models here drop out due to the costs of modelling, if they are not agency. Wardrobe can be a killer expense--and sometimes work overtakes everything. It's tough to survive in L.A.
I don't write to models typically. I just do a casting. . .On facebook I have written to a few models and shot them but that was after becoming facebook friends. Feb 14 19 12:36 pm Link Among the first 10 messages I received when I signed up at 16 was a predator trying to have sex and make porn with children.
A lot of people are just not cut out for having an inbox full of that shit day in and day out. Feb 23 19 04:51 pm Link I'm wondering if the slow activity of late is weighing on the patience of some and they just give up.
As much as I no longer use MM, I still keep the account active for those times I find it as an asset. Many don't see it like this and think this is a dying platform, which is probably true but it's still here with all it's resources. Feb 23 19 05:29 pm Link It turns out that the two "new-to-me" models I was trying to connect with did get in touch. One went inactive due to movie/new job craziness. I'm actually looking both for photo shoot models and Figure Models for my drawing class. And I connected with a 3rd "new-to-Mayhem."
I think, in spite of the weak economy, people just aren't looking to modeling as much anymore. That said, Mayhem continues to be a convenient way to connect. I do advise early friend requests, though. And getting contact info as soon as viable in case the model goes quiet. Feb 23 19 07:11 pm Link Orca Bay Images wrote: Nailed it. Feb 24 19 05:37 am Link I do better with models from MM. In the last few years, I've had about 600 success full shoot and maybe 400 other conversations that failed in leading to a shoot. At least MM requires a little bit of effort to set up a profile. And the communication system is better that the word-shorted IG or Messenger that just want to download all my contacts and mine my data. I would say that my success rate in social media is less than 20%. It is too easy for people to say they are a model. Often with no training they figure their modeling is worth at least $100/hr. They don't come ready with hair or makeup, no clothing or accessories, have no idea of posing and have to take a "BONG-BREAK" frequently. On social media, I can't check there stats or get an idea of what genres they will model. However the people on social media a very quick to show me the clubs they are at, the colour of the umbrella in the drink and their designer dog. Also, they may post articles about social conscienceness, but posting in on FB is bullshit, it you aren't activity doing something, then you are doing nothing. Then there is all that damm advertizing and clickbaid on social media that eat up the bandwidth. If you ever opened any of it, you would see that it opens in a FB window, not a browser window, so they can mine more data.
So if you are finding out that new models are disappearing quickly, it is not just MM. Sexual predators exist far more on the other sites. I know of 5 photographer in the Toronto area that were successfully convicted. I'm sticking with MM as I get a better quality model and I am able to vet better. If I see that a model has had her profile up for a year but hasn't logged on in 11 month, I know this is a dud. Many people thought that social media was going to be easy and money would start to flow. They didn't want to do the typical work of building a decent profile and network with people. And like any business, you run into so bad apples and have to figure out ways to deal or ignore them. MM does not have a history of deleting profiles, images, friend or messages like social media. And it is pretty much unrestricted for what you can have for images in your portfolio, no sexual acts, children or animals. For my purposes as a photographer and choosing models, I'm strying with MM and even voted with my $$$ to pay for membership. The rest of social media is for shits and giggles, because you are foolish if you take it too seriously. Feb 24 19 08:36 am Link Dorola: lots of good points.
You can tell a lot of about a model just by her profile. The really demanding ones, the not-serious ones, the maybe psycho ones. Not 100%, but what is? Also nice if they have something other than grainy selfies in their port. McKendricks: good points. ...And (especially new) models would do well to check Verified credits and maybe references. And tune out the porn offers. But maybe they get 90:10 porn:serious, I don't know. Feb 24 19 07:04 pm Link Alexandra Vincent wrote: how are they coming across you? Because you belong to a bunch of modelling facebook groups or something? Mar 01 19 02:02 pm Link Philip Brown wrote: I belong to a few groups, but most of my connections there are made indirectly, by commenting on the posts of other models and photographers. People read my commentary, then reach out to me from there.
Mar 01 19 05:11 pm Link Instagram, and less so, but still so Facebook, has destroyed this place. May 29 19 01:48 pm Link I have had the experience of working with great young nude models on MM only to have them completely disappear after a few weeks of shooting. At least four of them. It's as if some corporate entity behind the scenes is harvesting the best models for themselves, offering them big bucks, and making them sign exclusivity contracts so that they can no longer participate in MM. I suspect some of these newbie models may have sold their souls to porn. It happens so fast that some still have their pages up here, though they haven't logged in in years.
Here's an example: https://www.modelmayhem.com/kristykai Notice in her profile that she joined MM in January, 2012 and her last activity was February, 2012. I was lucky to get one shoot with her and she used one of my pics in her album, but then after that she would not respond to any messages from me or any other photographer. She hasn't logged in in seven years, yet her profile is still up. I hope she is OK. May 30 19 11:57 am Link Sensual Magic wrote: Hello,
May 31 19 07:01 am Link Sensual Magic wrote: Yes. This exact phenomenon is a question that comes up in the back of my mind often, "Where'd they go, and why so quickly?" I imagine it can be a variety of scenarios for a model's suddenly stopping modeling but there's always that mystery behind the flat-out instant GONE-ness of some as in the referenced profile. May 31 19 07:16 am Link and then there are the one's who turn up in the 1 day searches every three months - but never ever reply back or change their initial portfolio pix..like for years
to appear in the 1 day search...they've had to login in the last 24 hours if they've given up modeling - what are they doing? why are they checking in every three months? May 31 19 11:31 am Link People do the strangest things. I've seen a model always striving to be the top search result of a "recently updated" query by constantly changing avatars. No new photos in years, just staying "updated" by rotating between two or three avatars. This has been going on for a very long time.
Another model opens and closes the same profile over and over with different names. The first time around I actually started to plan a shoot but the PMs quickly turned weird, as if another person took over the conversation half-way through. The profile suddenly closed, opened again a few days later, then closed again. After a couple of weeks I noticed a new profile was created, same photos, different name. Again, it closed after a few days. The cycle has repeated at least twice since then. I'd love to know the thought processes involved, just out of morbid curiosity. Also, I don't mean to single out models, I'm sure photographers can be just as strange (in fact, I strongly suspect that there is no model involved at all in the second case above). May 31 19 12:13 pm Link When I use to pay model fees, most models locally or traveling were abundant... But now, since the beginning of the year
I had only two photo shoots, but I am not surprised....And I am located in Manhattan!... May 31 19 02:11 pm Link IMAGINERIES wrote: A search for female models in New York active within the last 7-days returns over 600 results.
May 31 19 05:25 pm Link IMAGINERIES wrote: I know models in NY who are always looking for work, but they want compensation. Jun 01 19 09:43 am Link I think some sign up because they want to think they could be a model. Just having their application accepted is enough. They really don't think of modeling as work - you just need to stand in front of a camera and look pretty.
I'm sure many get inundated with offerings to do porn and get turned off. Their profiles go from willing to doing nudes to not. I have had pretty good success with some new models. Usually they are the type who sign up and stay active for months or a year. Then a few days ago, I made a friend request to a new model. I thanked him for accepting, and mentioned my projects. He is very interested in one. I am optimistic it will work out. Jun 01 19 11:11 am Link 63fotos wrote: I understand that! That what I used to do, and never had any problems, they have bills to pay!!
Jun 01 19 12:20 pm Link traveling models is where its always been at for me. they come into town...and they send you an email and you know they are going to show up because they want the gig because usually its their livelihood Jun 01 19 11:13 pm Link Once they are in an agency they are gone. You have to negotiate with agency.
Unlike Instagram or whichever social media from x- nation this website is very complex. Most of the time it is there "boyfriends/manager" who signs them up for this website. So half the time you're not really negotiating with the model in question. In my area I could spot a model outside and see her return to her "boyfriend/manager" after doing a shoot. It is like watching a slo-motion game of frisbee. Jun 02 19 07:09 am Link I find I just look here to see how long they have modeled. All connections are on IG and FB and the regional groups. This site died for most when they changed messaging for many people. FB today said they will review their nude policy too. That will kill this off if they do change it to be more relaxed Jun 06 19 06:35 pm Link Sichenze Photography wrote: The trend on IG has been more censorship -- one reason I have never felt those are viable platforms. Jun 07 19 06:40 am Link Never forget where you are at. This and IF as well as Facebook and other sites are mostly full of amateur models. Who like a former member has called them unreliable dreamers. While a lot if not most of what offered is unpaid tests models tend to still vanish when its paid work. A member has said that they receive lots of sexual offers which is a turn off. Maybe so but women hear horrible things at night clubs and that doesn't stop most from going out. So what's going on?
Its easy to throw up some photos on a website. Its hard to actually follow up and model. That doesn't mean there aren't lots of solid serious models here but keep your exceptions low and don't be surprised when a model disappears after a few weeks. Jun 07 19 07:25 am Link Sichenze Photography wrote: Can you share reference on that? Jun 07 19 01:13 pm Link Chuckarelei wrote: I saw this thread and it piqued my interest. I found the online article, but also called a friend who works at FB
Jun 20 19 09:28 am Link IG, Facebook, and Tumblr have all had major failings in their approaches to nudity.
Blogger (Google), IMHO, does it right: #You don't have to be logged in. #You do have to have cookies and Javascript turned on. #You get a warning that the blog may contain sensitive material and are asked whether you wish to proceed. #If you click, yes, you are good to go for the session. Prevents accidental exposure to exposure. VERY "not onerous" and respectful of users and visitors. Jun 21 19 06:58 am Link TEB-Art Photo wrote: I was on mm some years ago and went on hiatus and revived the passion for photography and came back but a lot has changed. About all models on mm are now demanding pay. Even new no experience models demand pay. I remember when I used to open a casting call and received a number of replies and that was for TFP. Once they find out that no money is to be made they just move on. Jun 21 19 07:16 am Link when i moved to china yrs ago i found there a some websites which connect you and model ,and there are some personals provided open minded models for erotic nude photoshoots ( 1500RMB for 2hr session， without the MM i still shoot girls easily.very pleasant experience Jun 21 19 08:04 am Link |
