Hunter  GWPB wrote:

Britmick wrote:
Has anyone noticed that the perpetrator of this thread is no longer a member???

So, I looked at your profile and portfolio.  I found: one photo of a car in your portfolio    Okay.  That helps.  You don't care about shooting models and you are probably a member just so you can see the nude photos of those people who reserve their portfolios to members.  Did you know that your profile violates site rules and it should be hidden?

Wrong! If you had looked closer you would know that he also has 6 photos in a private album.
Your theory is right, but you got your facts wrong. Happens in the heat of an attack.

Ivy Wild wrote:

I don't think that most men realize how much work it is to ask men to not do a creepy thing.

I do think it is important/educational for photographers to know when they have done something to make me uncomfortable if I can tell they are not actually trying to harass me, yet still cross a line. Or if it is important to me that they not to do it again. I try to say it in the most gentle way possible that a comment or the unexpected physical contact made me uncomfortable. This always happens:

1) The photographer gets defensive
2) The photographer often gets angry with me for making him feel defensive
3) I have to spend emotional labor making the photographer feel better about it even though he did the inappropriate thing and all I did was try to explain a boundary. This is quite tiring.
4) The shoot is negatively affected.


The easiest thing to do is almost always just to smile and nod.

Women have been taught that our role is to de-escalate every situation. And so we do.

It would be a wise thing to spend time trying to understand this flow and be a better creative partner. There are many photographers who cross a line with me, and I'm usually not mad about it. I just don't want them to do it again. But expressing discomfort at all can be damn EXHAUSTING.

If you tell the photog the parameters of the shoot, and he gets defensive, it's time to leave. You should be able to figure this out in the first five minutes of the conversation.

Flex Photography wrote:
Wrong! If you had looked closer you would know that he also has 6 photos in a private album.
Your theory is right, but you got your facts wrong. Happens in the heat of an attack.

Hmmm.  How about that.  Maybe I was wrong.  Maybe I wasn't.  He posted on 6/10.  I posted on 6/12.  He last logged in on 6/18.  It is possible that he added the private folder after I posted and before you looked, and you just falsely accused me ( there isn't any hostility) without considering that maybe he saw my criticism or the mods saw my criticism and let him know he had to come into compliance.  As far as I can tell, he is still out of compliance.  The photo is required to show something relevant.  Photographers are ask to "show us a model."  I am curious how a "Friends Only" Private folder meets the 4 visible photos criteria?  Oh well.  No big deal. 

My theory may not be correct either.  We have no idea what motivates people we don't know.  My theory was just a stab in the dark, because, God knows, guys don't ever join this site for the nude photos.  And the car photo is still an oddity for the site. 

https://www.modelmayhem.com/education/m … s#profiles

In order to maintain a member profile, you must meet our membership requirements at all times: at least 4 visible images pertaining to your membership type and a biography.
*
*
*
*
Show Us A Model

Photographers must have at least 4 different photos specifically of adult human models “modeling” for the camera. Snapshots, candid photos, children, cars, landscapes, animals, etc do not count. Please show us your best work – we need to see examples of your photos in relation to adults “modeling”.

63fotos wrote:

If you tell the photog the parameters of the shoot, and he gets defensive, it's time to leave. You should be able to figure this out in the first five minutes of the conversation.

This assumes that humans behave honestly and puts the responsibility back onto the person who has endured the unwanted behavior instead of the perpetrator of the violation.
It solves nothing. Try re-reading it from the perspective of somebody who was deceived by an experienced manipulator, it doesn't play so well.
Please don't take this as coming from somebody who considers themselves perfect, far from it. I've learned much from my own flawed behavior and have much to learn still. Learning and changing can be two different things as well, that's one thing I've certainly learned about myself.
Cheers.

Flex Photography wrote:
Wrong! If you had looked closer you would know that he also has 6 photos in a private album.
Your theory is right, but you got your facts wrong. Happens in the heat of an attack.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
Hmmm.  How about that.  Maybe I was wrong.  Maybe I wasn't.  He posted on 6/10.  I posted on 6/12.  He last logged in on 6/18.  It is possible that he added the private folder after I posted and before you looked, and you just falsely accused me ( there isn't any hostility) without considering that maybe he saw my criticism or the mods saw my criticism and let him know he had to come into compliance.  As far as I can tell, he is still out of compliance.  The photo is required to show something relevant.  Photographers are ask to "show us a model."  I am curious how a "Friends Only" Private folder meets the 4 visible photos criteria?  Oh well.  No big deal. 

My theory may not be correct either.  We have no idea what motivates people we don't know.  My theory was just a stab in the dark, because, God knows, guys don't ever join this site for the nude photos.  And the car photo is still an oddity for the site. 

https://www.modelmayhem.com/education/m … s#profiles

Selectively quoting parts of the rules often happens in these forums.
For example another part of the rule says:

"Your profile should only display work you contributed to in your profile’s member category.
For example, this means if you are listed as a model, you should only be showing images of you as a model. If you are a photographer, you should only upload images you shot as a photographer."

So, if a membership is as an artist/painter, the 4 image minimum needs to consist of that genre of work, to comply with membership. 4 photos alone may not be substituted for that.

Don't know who would do that! lol

Flex Photography wrote:
Selectively quoting parts of the rules often happens in these forums.
For example another part of the rule says:

"Your profile should only display work you contributed to in your profile’s member category.
For example, this means if you are listed as a model, you should only be showing images of you as a model. If you are a photographer, you should only upload images you shot as a photographer."

So, if a membership is as a painter/artist, the 4 image minimum needs to consist of that genre of work. 4 photos alone can't be substituted for that.

Don't know who would do that! lol

lol
You talk about selectively quoting the rules.  I did quote the rules pertaining to the subject that was at hand, but you did not when you tried to redirect.  You chose to ignore the section for artists or painters and extrapolated a less specific rule to be the same as for others.  It seems, to you, that the word painter is the operative word in Artist/Painter.   I see no such indication in the rules.

Artists or Painters

Use Models

Please focus your submissions on art that utilizes models (human) rather than just landscapes, etc.

It seems to me that I addressed that section. 



Please notice that my membership grouping has two options.  Artist/painter.  Listed also as: "Artist or Painter" in the rules. Artist is a broad term, is it not?  It is also the operative term.  I am not a photographer per se, but my art is not limited to painting, drawing or sculpting. I also create art with the camera. My photos are art and for the moment, they are the photos that represent my art because that is mostly what I hire models to do: pose in front of a camera, not an easel.  As an artist, I am permitted to make art photos. I can also take a photo and streak two lines of paint across the edge: lo and behold, it is now a painting.  I see your narrow perspective, but I am not in violation of the rules.  If you could have countered any of my previous conclusions on their merits, you would have.  You couldn't, so you tried a twist of the rules and you used whataboutism. Your whataboutism doesn't change the facts concerning my previous observations.

Ivy Wild wrote:
At least half a dozen times, a photographer has randomly decided to tell me about some encounter in which a model has apparently specifically asked for the photographer to take a close up image of their vagina. The photographer always acts like he was uncomfortable, and was like "okay, if you really want to, I'll do that for you"

The first few times I heard it I smiled/nodded and proceeded with the conversation.

Several renditions of this later, I have to ask WHY?

Yes, GWCs told me this story but also well published professional photographers have told me this story. Of all the topics of conversation. It's not *necessarily* inappropriate per say, but now that I have heard it so many times, I'm just dying to know why of all the conversations about art and photography, must I hear this one over and over? And are they even true?

Can y'all....just... not?

I am a very long time in this industry (brick and mortar) and to be honest, after following this thread for a while... I can't get rid of the taste in my mouth of "so, this ONE guy told me this story, but to make it interesting, I am expanding this to many amateurs and so many published pros, to make it interesting and myself important"

Sorry, this story doesn't sound like the reporting of an ongoing culture in the industry.

udor wrote:
I am a very long time in this industry (brick and mortar) and to be honest, after following this thread for a while... I can't get rid of the taste in my mouth of "so, this ONE guy told me this story, but to make it interesting, I am expanding this to many amateurs and so many published pros, to make it interesting and myself important"

Sorry, this story doesn't sound like the reporting of an ongoing culture in the industry.

I did my first trip as a traveling model in 2008, so I've been at this a very long time as well - and people say shit, and insinuate stuff. When you're on a month-long tour, and shooting with two people per day, you're encountering a huge range of personality types. You're encountering the best of people, and sometimes the worst. If there's anything that is absolutely factual, it's that people in the US stereotype nude and glamour models as being "easy" or "hyper-sexual" ...or whatever. Or just assume we all have boundary issues.

It's not just "one guy" who has diarrhea of the mouth (and constipation of the brain), it's MANY. It's an entire culture of people who disrespect womxn who've chosen non-traditional occupations and society roles. Just because one's work involves display of the body doesn't mean that body is available for commenting on, touch, or sexual access. This vast majority of men understand they shouldn't touch without consent, but some still think *talking* sexual stuff to someone who's basically a stranger, or manipulating for consent ("This one model really wanted ....") is acceptable. You don't start talking about your erotic experiences with the people who work in your office, or at the cable company, or in a parking garage elevator - so why is there the impulse to do it while working with a nude/art model?

The fact is, I don't think there is any person who's spent their lives in a male identity/life who can truly understand just how gross a lot of their fellow males can act. I get tired of working with people who ask if I have a "boyfriend." Even when it's just trying to start conversation. First of all, I'm not 17, so why "boyfriend," instead of "husband" or "partner"? Second of all, it's no one's business. Third, we should all be passed the point where we just assume everyone is hetero. Fourth, when I've told people my relationship status, they've often tried to use it as a segue to talk about sexual stuff. Fifth, it's no one's business. Sixth, it's no one's business. Seventh, it's no one's business....

LONDON Photo Art wrote:
- Do not touch me without asking first
- No open leg shots

.

Don't touch without asking?  I ask if it's OK to get closer before stepping within 6 feet of the model.  I have never asked to touch a model because there was never any (legitimate) reason to touch her.

'No open leg shots'

If there is any ambiguity as to her limits I ask.  Usually something like, "Erotic means different things to different people.  I personally don't shoot gynocam closeups but what are your personal limits?"  So is that wording humorous, considerate, odd, or creepy?

Asking for myself.