Al_Vee Photography wrote:
Sensual means "of the senses," something that stimulates our senses. It is used to describe things that give us highly rewarding physical experiences. Looking at a beautiful painting is sensual, as is eating a type of food you enjoy. Hearing your favorite song on the radio is also sensual. None of these things are sexual, but they all bring pleasurable sensory experiences.

To me, sensuality in a photograph relates to deep and vivid colors, or pleasing textures in a black and white. There can be erotic elements to the subject matter, but unless the visual aspects appeal somehow to my senses, it is not a sensual viewing experience.

I mostly agree but I had to add one word to one of your sentences just because.

None of these things are "universally" sexual, but they all bring pleasurable sensory experiences.

Humans are ever versatile and surprising creatures!!!
Cheers!

Al_Vee Photography wrote:
Sensual means "of the senses," something that stimulates our senses. It is used to describe things that give us highly rewarding physical experiences. Looking at a beautiful painting is sensual, as is eating a type of food you enjoy. Hearing your favorite song on the radio is also sensual. None of these things are sexual, but they all bring pleasurable sensory experiences.

To me, sensuality in a photograph relates to deep and vivid colors, or pleasing textures in a black and white. There can be erotic elements to the subject matter, but unless the visual aspects appeal somehow to my senses, it is not a sensual viewing experience.

Hey Al,

Great synopsis of the subject.  Your eloquent and very well phrased response to the question pretty much sums it up.

I agree with your diversion between sexual and sensual.  If we look at actresses of Hollywood's golden era - Hedy Lamaar, Lana Turner, etc - they were desirable because they were sensual but not sexual in their mannerisms or speech.  When compared to what we see and hear from Hollywood today, there does appear to be a great void in class and what was/is deemed appealing. 

Again, great response and terrific work!

Rays Fine Art wrote:
In terms of model photography (and videography), What is it? How would you define it? express it? display it? Shoot it?
Is it necessarily sexual? graphic? erotic? pornographic?  and if so, how does your individual definition of these terms impact on how you would present sensuality in a shoot?

Just a little conversation starter for tonight's parties.and tomorrow's regrets.

Happy New Year!!!

As a party conversation, it might be a good time to go into another room.   

Some famous erotica:  “Song of Solomon”
https://www.biblestudytools.com/song-of-solomon/

No one who reads the Song with care can question the artistry of the poet. The subtle delicacy with which he evokes intense sensuous awareness while avoiding crude titillation is one of the chief marks of his achievement. This he accomplishes largely by indirection, by analogy and by bringing to the foreground the sensuous in the world of nature (or in food, drink, cosmetics and jewelry). To liken a lover's enjoyment of his beloved to a gazelle "browsing among lilies" (2:16), or her breasts to "twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies" (4:5), or the beloved herself to a garden filled with choice fruits inviting the lover to feast (4:12-16) -- these combine exquisite artistry and fine sensitivity.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s … ersion=NIV
portions

Under the apple tree I roused you;
    there your mother conceived you,
    there she who was in labor gave you birth.
6 
Place me like a seal over your heart,
    like a seal on your arm;
for love is as strong as death,
    its jealousy unyielding as the grave.
It burns like blazing fire,
    like a mighty flame.
7 
Many waters cannot quench love;
    rivers cannot sweep it away.
If one were to give
    all the wealth of one’s house for love,
    it would be utterly scorned.
We have a little sister,
    and her breasts are not yet grown.
What shall we do for our sister
    on the day she is spoken for?
If she is a wall,
    we will build towers of silver on her.
If she is a door,
    we will enclose her with panels of cedar.
(She)
10 
I am a wall,
    and my breasts are like towers.
Thus I have become in his eyes
    like one bringing contentment.

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from a different thread wrote:
Basic definitions and facts of life:
#1: if it's "erotic" then by definition it is sexually simulating
#2: if it sexually stimulating, men will "use" it.
#3: therefore, it is porn.

My take away on the above quote would mean that nude images of men, regardless of their depiction or activity, would not be erotic because, I and many men, would not find images of nude men to be sexually stimulating, and would not “use” it, and therefore, any sex act involving men could not be porn by this logic, unless one was stimulated by men.  Or if "men will use it", as per the quote, were defined by one individual, or two, somewhere in the world, which could then render images of  cuts of meat and animals such as clams and ousters, and plant life such as orchids, anthurium, and many other flowers and plants (including nuts, fruits and fungi), which, at some point in their development, resemble a portion of human genitalia, and therefore, must be porn because someone somewhere might "use" it.
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Controversy over public display of an erotic painting relative to the age of the subject
https://qz.com/quartzy/1150269/new-york … y-balthus/
What makes this painting erotic?  She is not nude, she is not touching herself.  Could she also be uncomfortably warm in the privacy of her home?  Suffering from some pain?  I alter my leg position in much the same way due to hip joint pain.  Is it the viewers notions that make this a "sexually suggestive pose?"

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Old movies/theater
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/08/20/glad-to-see/
“Lieutenant,” she ad-libbed with a Westian leer, “is that your sword or are you just glad to see me?”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBk79X3rMyc
You know how to whistle

burlesque
cancan dance
Belly dance
Strip tease-possibly what cost John the Baptist his head.  Maybe it was far less provocative than strip tease.
Viennese Waltz and the audacity of men putting their hands on woman's waste to dance.
Trending fashions in the movies (flappers-my God). or on the street, could have been scandalous.
The winter song "Baby, It's Cold Outside"  written 1944: 74 years sure has changed the meaning of that song to people that do not believe in context.


Censorship in movies.  It is it a false comparison to compare an industry under censorship to the industry after censorship and come to a moral conclusion about the decline of decency, or increase in obscenity, or "class" when the playing field was not level between two eras due to changes in law.  I suppose it is possible that some people today are unaware of the fact that censorship has occurred in this country.
https://ncac.org/resource/a-brief-histo … censorship

To be unable to consider art work within the time frames and the society in which it was created would impose personal and cultural judgements upon the work which would be inappropriate.

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It is possibly against the rules to link this, so you can google it.
-14 Classic Artworks That Are Way More Erotic Than You Remember (NSFW)
-25 most offensive paintings (NSFW)

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I have been discussing and sketching a piece for a couple of months.  If I do it, it will be the most erotic piece I have ever done, but it will not have the greatest amount of nudity.  Maybe none.  I have talked to two models who adore the idea and believe it can be tastefully (relative term) done.  I talked to an MFA about it and she was shocked.  I am befuddled. 

dictionary wrote:
erotic |əˈrädik|
adjective
relating to or tending to arouse sexual desire or excitement.

pornography |pôrˈnäɡrəfē|
noun
printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings.

sexual |ˈsekSH(o͞o)əl|
adjective
1 relating to the instincts, physiological processes, and activities connected with physical attraction or intimate physical contact between individuals: she had felt the thrill of a sexual attraction.
2 relating to the two sexes or to gender: sensitivity about sexual stereotypes.

sensual |ˈsen(t)SH(o͞o)əl|
adjective
of or arousing gratification of the senses and physical, especially sexual, pleasure: the production of the ballet is sensual and passionate.

Graphic: adjective
1 relating to visual art, especially involving drawing, engraving, or lettering: his mature graphic work.
• giving a vivid picture with explicit detail: he gave a graphic description of the torture.
• Computing relating to or denoting a visual image: graphic information such as charts and diagrams.

Sorry: I do not see any validity in making up one's own definition to fit the argument.