Tony Lawrence wrote:
Darren Brade has said it well.   Even if an agency would send models it could cost many hundreds of dollars per hour.   So its clear, agencies typically bill clients and unless you have a business license and are known to them and can show that you will pay its unlikely they would send anyone.  Some might say well the photographer could pay before the session but that just isn't how agencies work.   Frankly if I could I'd pay every model I shot but I simply don't have the money and I think I speak for many other photographers here.   That said I also get how models feel.   Photos no matter how nice won't pay bills.  There is no easy answer.  Renting a studio, etc. comes with some risks models will flake even if you are paying them.  Models also take risks accepting paid sessions only to not get what they were promised.   

I will repeat this.   The OP has good work and my feeling is with some networking and going to  fashion shows and hitting up model groups on Facebook would find more dependable models.   Perhaps offering incentives like paid travel from cities close to him might also help.   I can't speak on Germany but I could have found models when I went to a few countries in Europe a few years ago.   That's another story though...

What agency are you using that charge you that much?  I've never ever been quoted that much, not even close.  And if you all have missed the point, which it seems you have, agency models are much more reliable than freelance models for the most part.  And if you're doing this professionally and can't have a flake, don't risk a freelance unless you know the model personally and know that they are very reliable.  There's just so many safeguards in using an agency model.  Things like a confirmation email, the model's personal phone number.  Sorry, I've had so many freelance models not give that out, and of course they didn't follow through with booking the shoot.  You don't have people model for a hobby in agencies, they are really professionals and they act that way.  I"m not bashing all freelance models out there, I've worked with some great models as I'm sure we all have that are exempt from these statements, but do you think anybody who's got a big contract as in tens of thousands of dollars on a shoot will leave it up to a freelance model? Not a chance.  And yes, pictures can pay the bills, as well as taking the photos can pay the bills.  Trust me, I've done it, and my dad who's a photographer has done it, and that's just two examples.

Abbitt Photography wrote:

1.  I realize independent models are not agency models and are much more likely to cancel or flake.  If I was doing expensive commercial shoots, I’d hire agency models, but that’s not what I’m doing.   

2.  I get a phone number at booking.   Models who know they aren’t serious will be reluctant to give their phone number.   

3.  I do an email confirmation about 3 days prior and a phone call confirmation a couple hours prior.   At this point it’s too late to get an other model, but at least m not waiting around after shoot start time wondering.   

4.  I never invest anything into a single shoot I’m not happy to lose.   I don’t rent studio space, I don’t hire a MUA, and I don’t give up anything important.  I never put myself in a position I need the photos in a timely manner.    I make alternative plans for my time.  Basically, I consider it a bonus if the model follows through.   

If I’ve personally gotten to know a model well, onl6 then may I depart from the above.

It's sad when we have to pre-plan for what has become the acceptable by those with whom we work.  I know it's not all modes, just as its not all of any profession that gives the rest a bad name when something negative occurs but it does seem as though it's seen as very OK in this world to act like is being discussed.  Having to have alternate plans already in place or another person waiting in the wings just in case says volumes about the caliber of people willing to do what they claim to love but can't follow through on.  As one member noted, some would never think of standing someone up or ghosting.  Kudos to that mindset.  I'd like to believe that not following through is something specific to photography/modeling but it's happening more and more in other walks of life in today's society.  It's sad really when not following through on one's word because of a whim becomes commonplace and even socially acceptable.

To those who still value a sense of professionalism in their work, I wish you nothing but the best.  To those still trying to catch on to how that works and the benefits from doing so, I hope the light burns brighter for you at some point but if it hasn't by the time you're an adult, how about looking elsewhere for something to do.  You're the people making life hard in the rest.

Todd Meredith wrote:
..  I'd like to believe that not following through is something specific to photography/modeling but it's happening more and more in other walks of life in today's society.  It's sad really when not following through on one's word because of a whim becomes commonplace and even socially acceptable...

I agree this isn't unique to modeling.  I've experienced the same in online dating for example.  I've been working with college age students for 30 years and I don't see it there however.  I think the difference is incentive.  If a student worker doesn't show, they get fired, if a student doesn't show up for a lab, they get a worse grade as a result, but if an independent model loses interest in a shoot, it's unlikely to have any negative impact on her or him.  A model in this thread said reputation matters but I have absolutely no idea if that model has showed up for 90% of her shoots or 10%, and obviously newer models have almost no track record to speak of, even if we did known it.   A model who no longer cares much about modeling, can't be hurt by a bad reputation.

I had a model fail to confirm and then no-show this last weekend.  I have no way of knowing if she's now telling some other photographer she's reliable, and any photographer she may be talking to has no way of knowing that she flaked on me.  When it comes to independent models, there's no system for tracking this as there is with agency models.

Isaiah Brink wrote:

What agency are you using that charge you that much?  I've never ever been quoted that much, not even close.  And if you all have missed the point, which it seems you have, agency models are much more reliable than freelance models for the most part.  And if you're doing this professionally and can't have a flake, don't risk a freelance unless you know the model personally and know that they are very reliable.  There's just so many safeguards in using an agency model.  Things like a confirmation email, the model's personal phone number.  Sorry, I've had so many freelance models not give that out, and of course they didn't follow through with booking the shoot.  You don't have people model for a hobby in agencies, they are really professionals and they act that way.  I"m not bashing all freelance models out there, I've worked with some great models as I'm sure we all have that are exempt from these statements, but do you think anybody who's got a big contract as in tens of thousands of dollars on a shoot will leave it up to a freelance model? Not a chance.  And yes, pictures can pay the bills, as well as taking the photos can pay the bills.  Trust me, I've done it, and my dad who's a photographer has done it, and that's just two examples.

I have worked with models from the now defunct in Chicago, Elite which was later Aria, David & Lee, as well as models from FORD and Factor.   These were done through friends, etc. as I was never on a rounds list.   However they were all signed.   None of the models would sign a release nor would I ask them too and had I reached out to their agencies and or others its VERY likely they would never send any models to me.   I want to make absolutely clear that agencies are not in general going to send their models to  photographers they don't know for pay or tests.   Especially if those models are being asked to do nudes and expected to sign a release.   Agencies usually provide their talent with a voucher where the client, photographer and they have a copy.   This is proof they worked and the hours.

Certainly agency models are more reliable but what you've said is not how agencies work that I know of.   Agencies want to control who their models work with for good reasons.   They don't want poorly done images of their models floating around.   They don't want their talent working with photographers they haven't vetted.   I also can't imagine any professional agency model proving her personal phone number to a unknown photographer.   Last, I can't think anyone who's working with clients who pay thousands per day NOT using an agency but you simply can't call DNA models for example and 'order' up some girls.   Agencies have to protect their models.   

Agencies check into things like if the company has a license.  What is the reputation of the company.   What is the planned use of the images produced.  They don't send models out just because someone can pay them.

Abbitt Photography wrote:

I agree this isn't unique to modeling.  I've experienced the same in online dating for example.  I've been working with college age students for 30 years and I don't see it there however.  I think the difference is incentive.  If a student worker doesn't show, they get fired, if a student doesn't show up for a lab, they get a worse grade as a result, but if an independent model loses interest in a shoot, it's unlikely to have any negative impact on her or him.  A model in this thread said reputation matters but I have absolutely no idea if that model has showed up for 90% of her shoots or 10%, and obviously newer models have almost no track record to speak of, even if we did known it.   A model who no longer cares much about modeling, can't be hurt by a bad reputation.

I had a model fail to confirm and then no-show this last weekend.  I have no way of knowing if she's now telling some other photographer she's reliable, and any photographer she may be talking to has no way of knowing that she flaked on me.  When it comes to independent models, there's no system for tracking this as there is with agency models.

I think MM needs to have a rating system of some sort, one where a photographer or model can rate their reliability.  But I have a feeling that would be taken advantage of.  There's the verified credits feature, which not everybody utilizes, and is somewhat combersom.  Any chance we could have something like a 5 star rating system with sections for professionalism and reliability?

Isaiah Brink wrote:
I think MM needs to have a rating system of some sort, one where a photographer or model can rate their reliability.  But I have a feeling that would be taken advantage of.  There's the verified credits feature, which not everybody utilizes, and is somewhat combersom.  Any chance we could have something like a 5 star rating system with sections for professionalism and reliability?

There have been a couple hundred previous threads on this subject.  Please, please do a search and read a few of those threads before this goes any further one more time.

Fleming Design wrote:

There have been a couple hundred previous threads on this subject.  Please, please do a search and read a few of those threads before this goes any further one more time.

Well, then it's been brought up once more, just to annoy you then, how about that?  Screw searching, unless it's for models.  Hey let's take this to it's logical conclusion, where internet brands has one of it's programmers add this feature to MM.  That way, we have no need for more threads.

Isaiah Brink wrote:

I think MM needs to have a rating system of some sort, one where a photographer or model can rate their reliability.  But I have a feeling that would be taken advantage of.  There's the verified credits feature, which not everybody utilizes, and is somewhat combersom.  Any chance we could have something like a 5 star rating system with sections for professionalism and reliability?

I agree a rating system of reliability could be abused, but I think it's less prone to abuse than a subjective opinion of talent would be, and let's face it, there's nothing objective about the current verified credit system.  It's not in anyway a random sampling of experiences.  It's designed to solicit positive comments.   A verified system that asks whether someone showed up or not, delivered images as promised or not would be equally, if not more objective.   

I'd love to see a site for amateur and freelance photographers and models that works more along the lines of a modeling agency, where bookings and some sort of responsibility check is built in, but as it stands now most such sites simply offer communication, so without such responsibility incentives.  It is what it is and I stated previously, I take some actions to reduce cancelations and no-shows but also accept they are to be expected when independently booking models.

Air Portraits wrote:
So, after years of this not happening, today I am stuck sitting in a rented studio with no model....
No messages, mails, texts...... nothing. And no answers.
Worst, we confirmed again yesterday and she said she would be here at 11:00.....

So how do you deal with this?

Not only is it frustrating and rude, it means I'm out significant time and money. Yes, I have a contract with her stating we'll both pay the other in this kind of situation, but realistically unless MM can step in and help me recover, I doubt I'll see any compensation.

There has got to be a better way!!!!

So I'm curious, what would you do?

I recommend getting drunk. Since you live in Germany I also recommend Echte Kroatzbeere to get you nice and drunk. You will forget all about the no show in no time at all.

Air Portraits wrote:
So, after years of this not happening, today I am stuck sitting in a rented studio with no model....
No messages, mails, texts...... nothing. And no answers.
Worst, we confirmed again yesterday and she said she would be here at 11:00.....

So how do you deal with this?

Not only is it frustrating and rude, it means I'm out significant time and money. Yes, I have a contract with her stating we'll both pay the other in this kind of situation, but realistically unless MM can step in and help me recover, I doubt I'll see any compensation.

There has got to be a better way!!!!

So I'm curious, what would you do?

I avoid renting places unless a client insists. For beauty the house I am renting is more than adequate: I shot my video beauty reel there. I am also able to do full length. I rented my house because it is a great place to shoot in.As regards the model, I would attempt to email her a few days later. You don't know what happened to her and hopefully she is okay. People will tell you all sorts of things you can do but for projects things can easily go wrong. . .As for the loss of money-you  gambled and you get burnt--there's no real recourse, no matter what internet lawyers here, tell you. it's best to just move on to the next great thing.

As for the whole agency model thing that some photographer thinks can happen-unless you have a relationship with the agency you can forget it and I shoot agency models, but not for the agency, and the agency type that I am referring to is one that books fashion and major fashion campaigns, which is different from "agencies.". Agency models, generally speaking,  aren't really looking to photographers for money--they're interested in projects--magazine submissions, updating the portfolio, or video reel, all, in the effort of landing a big campaign.  Unless your work speaks to them they will not have time for you. Sorry, it is just how the world works. The seriousness at which an agency model approaches a project is delightful. And you can get addicted to that.

DeanLautermilch wrote:
If MM were to implement a system like EBay for model/photographer performance it would change the website for the better.

Dealing with newbies I get a lot of no-shows even with models that confirm via text in the previous hour.

There would have to be some sort of checks and balances to prevent abuse by vindictive people.  I can just see the scenario of, "you won't pay my rate, I'll say we shot together and it was horrible."  Besides that, I believe you have a sound idea.

LONDON Photo Art wrote:
Due to models canceling VERY last-minute (sometimes after I had driven 80% of the way to the location), I've developed a policy of never paying for a studio with a model i've not shot with before, if it's TFP.
.

While on tour in 2015, I drove 350 miles to a paid shoot, called the night before to confirm (as we'd agreed upon), only to have the photographer tell me that he'd forgotten and was out of town. I'd sent him a check-in email about a week and a half before, which he'd acknowledged we were good to go.

Earlier that same year, I had a 3 hour shoot booked for an address that was supposedly a studio location in rural Pennsylvania. Despite multiple requests for a phone number from the photographer, I never received one. However, he'd agreed to a time, day, compensation and sent me the address. I considered it a done deal. When I arrived at the address, it was a garden center. Men were unloading small potted trees from a truck. There was no photographer in sight, and I sent him several emails while waiting in the parking lot, for close to an hour. Never heard back from the man, and a couple of people I told about it commented that it sounded like a tasteless prank.

While these types of experiences do not happen frequently, they happen with enough regularity that I've grown to anticipate that every time I travel, I'll encounter at least one unreliable/flaky person, whose dropping of the proverbial ball will be memorably bad.

Air Portraits wrote:
So, after years of this not happening, today I am stuck sitting in a rented studio with no model....
No messages, mails, texts...... nothing. And no answers.
Worst, we confirmed again yesterday and she said she would be here at 11:00.....

So how do you deal with this?

Not only is it frustrating and rude, it means I'm out significant time and money. Yes, I have a contract with her stating we'll both pay the other in this kind of situation, but realistically unless MM can step in and help me recover, I doubt I'll see any compensation.

There has got to be a better way!!!!

So I'm curious, what would you do?

Just move on. A total flake with no call no show or any attempt at communication doesn't really deserve any of your energy and I'm sorry this happened.

Jen B wrote:

Just move on. A total flake with no call no show or any attempt at communication doesn't really deserve any of your energy and I'm sorry this happened.

EXACTLY!  While we can share ideas on how to best TRY to prevent no shows, there's absolutely nothing anyone can do to prevent them or to change the behavior of those who feel no remorse for doing so.  I see the value in exchanging best business practices, but, even then, what works in one area for one person may not work in another for a different person or even the same person.  Create something fantastic wth someone else.

Move on and don't think twice about it.  Don't forget the person and how they treated you but promise yourself you'll never do likewise to others.  At some point in the future that model may contact you about working together.  It's then that you can think back to the incident and weigh that into whether giving that person another chance is worth the trouble.  The ball will definitely be in your court.  Some might say it's the better person who gives the second chance.  I prefer once bitten twice shy in matters like that.  How much drama you want in your life is your decision.

Todd Meredith wrote:
EXACTLY!  While we can share ideas on how to best TRY to prevent no shows, there's absolutely nothing anyone can do to prevent them or to change the behavior of those who feel no remorse for doing so.  I see the value in exchanging best business practices, but, even then, what works in one area for one person may not work in another for a different person or even the same person.  ....

One post here mentioned two instances, apparently over a long period of time where the other party flaked.  Well, I think that's just a part of doing business.  Write it off, and don't worry about it.  However, if one is having 1/3, 1/2 or more of booked shoots falling through, then I agree one needs to figure out how to deal with that - whether that's not renting studio space, doing better follow up, fining a more reliable source of models, etc.

One thing I notice here is people painting things as black or white issues when in reality there's a huge grey scale.   Another example is people talking about paid vs. non paid shoots as if all pay is equal, when obviously there's a huge difference between $20/hour and $200/hour, just as there's a difference between a 5% no-show rate and a 50% no-show rate.

Jarrett Porst wrote:
Tardiness and or absenteeism is rampant in every environment.  Even with paid agreements, there are no-shows.  I'm over it.  I know who I should call again and who I'll never call again.  Not going to lose sleep over it. 
...

I routinely hire college students.  They rarely miss a shift and when they do, they are good about getting a substitute on their own. True no-shows happen but are incredibly rare, well under 1%.   The cancelation and no-show rate I get from independent models is astronomically higher, so I disagree this is rampant everywhere. 

The difference of course is consequences.   A student employee cares about their job and knows they will lose it if they no show or cancel often.  In contrast, the model who flaked on me today will see no negative consequence.   No other photographers will know she canceled on me, and if she’s not that serious about modeling, it doesn’t matter anyways.   

It’s easy to just get over it when the no-show rate is 1%, quite another if it’s 50% or more.

63fotos wrote:

I am a victim of this also.
What did I do? Let it go, but I have also told fellow photographers not to do business with her.

Orca Bay Images wrote:
Another step I take in dealing with a no-call/no-show: I notify my local photographer friends.

Several times, other photographers have had the same problem with that model. In other cases, other photographers have cancelled shoots with that model because of a no-show with one of us.

I did this once when a model no-showed/no call  on me twice.  On her page she had posted the next photographer she was working with.  I messaged him and told him she had flaked twice on me.  Within 10 minutes I had a call from the model screaming at me about my unprofessionalism, I was trying to destroy her reputation, that she was going to sue me, etc...I hung up.  I later received a message from the photographer telling that it was unprofessional of me to talk about models in that fashion and if I continued to harass this model, he would have me banned from MM.  She probably flaked on him too.  After all, she did have a sick grandmother with a dying turtle which had been injured in the car accident she had on the way to the studio which destroyed her phone.

Orca Bay Images wrote:
Another step I take in dealing with a no-call/no-show: I notify my local photographer friends.
After all, she did have a sick grandmother with a dying turtle which had been injured in the car accident she had on the way to the studio which destroyed her phone.

Sick grandmothers is probably the most common reason why models don't attend shoots. Probably best to I try and avoid models with grandmothers, maybe it should be one of the questions to ask?

GuyPose wrote:
I prepare the model release in advance and request their address, when their granny dies, which is the standard excuse in the UK I send a card.  If it's true then it's a nice gesture, if it's not true then they are so pissed  they don't do it to anyone else.

This is priceless!  I have got to make this a standard practice.  With the frequency that it occurs in this line or work, I'm sure that Hallmark will love me, also, with all the business I'll be bringing them.