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I hate make up "artists" so I will stop using them
Ok guys,
First and foremost. Why do you even title yourself artists? Am I a photography artist? Is a model a modeling artist? Actually the only art officially recognised as "art" among all these is a part of photography and I also consider part of modeling to be a performing art. Everything else is supportive. I am tired of hiring MU's on paid projects and asking them for specific styles / color pallete's and instead getting a result that will show "their art". You are not Picasso, so stop acting like it. You went to the Make up school, not the fine art school, so could you just do as told and not ART? I don't want your art I want your work and just that. If you are not up for it, go do something else. (Ok I know there's hate in there for all, but I only actually hate my last MU, she was three hours late to the gig without an excuse. Looking at the end result of her work, she could as well have peed on the provided moodboard, and shooting a 20x outfit lookbook she only left me 5 bloody minutes / outfit out of the original estimated 20 minutes / outfit. My client paid so much money on models & props, One MU > 10 people production.) From now on I decided to turn my vision for fashion to something totally natural and candid just to not have another MU around ever again. If a model wants to do it on her own, she knows her face better than anyone, so we will be fine. Bye MU's, so long. Jul 24 17 03:58 am Link ...this may not end well. Jul 24 17 04:51 am Link Well, let's see...I call myself an artist because I have a Master of Fine Arts degree in Wig and Makeup Design ( yes, those exist). I attended a fine arts conservatory.
If you are working with makeup artists who can't follow a mood board and do the job, you are working with the wrong people. I too hate people that call themselves makeup artists without proper training. But it is up to you or whoever is doing the hiring to look at the artist's portfolio, check their references, and properly vet them, just like you would on anyone else you were hiring for a job. Of course being three hours late is unacceptable. Did this person have good credentials? Also, if the client has shelled out all this money on models and props, why was there only one makeup artist for 10 people? The idea that a model knows her own face better than anyone is laughable. I know models that couldn't put makeup on themselves well if their life depended on it. You are welcome to shoot natural looks and never deal with an MUA again, of course. But it seems awfully limiting to me. Jul 24 17 06:55 am Link Thomas Andreas wrote: why did you wait 3 hours for anyone, especially for a crew job? 15 - 20 minutes late, the backup mua should have been called. after that, the late mua would have been sent away at the door.
Jul 24 17 07:21 am Link We call ourselves makeup artists because we create art on the bodies and faces of other people using pigments and other mediums, applied tools. Even the average person on the street who is quite skilled with their own makeup is unable to recreate a look just as stunning on another's face regardless of the skin tone and texture. We are artists because we can create the look requested even on a model that is crying because she just broke up with a boyfriend, an actor who is jet-lagged and doesn't care for their skin, or talent that is inebriated. Many artists have backgrounds in the fine arts or other arts as well. It requires both art and science to be prepared for any skin conditions and types and to execute hair and makeup despite challenging weather or working spaces. The science of color theory must be mastered as well.
We are professionals because we are always early, have invested countless amounts of time and money in our training and equipment and continue to invest in both education and equipment unceasingly, have been thoroughly educated about skin care and sanitation, always communicate promptly and efficiently, get along with everyone on set in a kind and gracious manner, and make the job of other crew members and talent easier and more pleasant. We spend countless hours creating face charts and sketching looks, as well as researching references and history. We spend more hours breaking down scripts and maintaining continuity records. We maintain insurance and licensing and file tax returns. We are educated in and understand lighting, lenses, cameras and other aspects of the technical part of the job so that we can communicate with co-creatives and do our jobs well. We are fast. Very fast when needed. We have contracts, work hard for long hours, spend hours in preparation for jobs, communicate with clients, spend more hours in cleaning and follow up after jobs, and behave professionally. I skimmed your work. These looks would not be nearly as lovely if a makeup artist was not involved. It would be a shame if your work was to fall in quality because of your contempt for other professionals and your arrogant belief that your work and art is superior to those of other co-creatives, so superior that it renders theirs unnecessary. You are not, from your description, working with professional artists. Perhaps you need to work with better people. No true professional makeup/hair artist would behave in this way. Are you sourcing your artists from legitimate agencies or other reputable sources? Have you gotten referrals on them? I understand you are frustrated and upset because you just had a bad experience. However, coming into a forum of professional artists and insulting them by denigrating and belittling their profession is unbelievably unprofessional and reflects very poorly on you. As a professional hair and makeup artist I would never work with you based on this alone. Jul 24 17 08:24 am Link Thomas Andreas wrote: After reading the OP, I am left wondering how the MUAs of the world are responsible for your decisions that led to disaster?
Jul 24 17 09:39 am Link Danielle Blazer wrote: I emphatically concur^^^ Jul 24 17 11:23 am Link Thomas Andreas wrote: If the client thinks like the OP, the client will never hire another photographer Jul 24 17 11:26 am Link Look, chill.
I have already discussed this, with the models, the client, the particular MU involved, the matter is settled. The actual lookbook ended up ok, not my favorite one, but the client agreed that it was usable material for the promotion of his brand. My main point towards the MU was that when we work in teams we are all like links in a chain, one breaks and we have no chain. In this chain, our purpose is to create added value. Else, why be hired by any client, if we are not to give this value and profit everybody alongside it. Three extra shooting hours (out of a total of 5, that was limited to 2), would give the client a much better result. The reason for no backup was that she seemed trustworthy enough from all three times we discussed. There was no excuse by her side, as to why she was three hours late. The models were 2. I didn't think I would need extra hands for this. The project was out of town. I have 3 MU's in my network with excellent performance, but this time none was available for the trip, despite the good pay. So I hired that particular one after a recommendation, not because she gave us the cheapest price but because she had the best credencials (even owns her own make up academy). Please forgive me dear Make up people for the provocation, but what I actually needed out of this post was the response to be passionate and maybe even with a hint of rudeness, which I would only read as a relaxed form of truth, and point out my own mistakes in all this, rethink and consider things that I could have missed. I will borrow "One is none and two is one" I won't continue the debate wether someone that makes up is an artist, I don't really care. Anyone who calls themselves artists, to my mind, is automatically uninspiring. Thank you everyone for your valuable insights. Jul 24 17 12:20 pm Link If you are seeking valuable insights then perhaps this will be valuable: Stop thinking of people as "not artists." Some would say that everyone is an artist. Certainly, it would seem to build an adversarial relationship to call someone a technician who calls themselves an artist. After all, where does one cross the line to be an artist? What level of proficiency is required of a technician? That may be determined by a government licensing board. Artist isn't so easy. I get to determine if someone else's art is great or garbage to me. They could be an artist I do or don't like. I really don't get to make such such an arbitrary determination as to them being an artist.
Ultimately, you are lucky the MUA showed up. Many people being 3 hours late for a five hour gig, would have just blown it off. Your main point may have been working with a team and you and your MUA might be good, so why bring it here and disparage other people because of the actions of one? This does not seem like team building to me. After all, you did ask for your mistakes to be pointed out and this thread was certainly a mistake. Jul 24 17 12:42 pm Link Hunter GWPB wrote: I have been served, thank you. Jul 24 17 12:55 pm Link My experiences have shown that the majority of MUA's are not artists, but rather MakeUp Applicators.
There are a few Artists in the business and they are working for major clients and earn very high day rates (worth every penny). The best ones are in Hollywood and New York where the clients are the most demanding and discerning. Just because someone goes to school to learn techniques of applying makeup doesn't make them an artist any more than the average house painter is an 'artist'. One has to have 'vision' of what the job entails and what to do to make it happen. It takes an eye for beauty, and knowledge of how a camera and lighting will change the appearance of a made up face and how to translate that into the application of various products to get the results a commercial beauty client wants. Jul 24 17 02:31 pm Link Hi Thomas being a makeup artist and key for 17 years now I can tell you--you've got to screen your MUA's better. If she was as late as you say--you should have replaced her. To say ALL MUA are bad--that stretching a very bad day. I have had some photographers you'd want to throw out of a window, but the majority have been amazing. I dig you had a really bad experience and are venting--but be wise to vent on a photographers page and not disparage a whole community because your artist was unprofessional. Next time fire her!
Peace out Thomas DeShawn Jul 28 17 11:33 pm Link Looks more like you don't have a team. If you shoot for a while you will find water seeks it's own level. Part of being a good photographer is putting together a good team. That means vetting and testing to see who you enjoy working with. It looks like you are just starting out your career. It takes a little time. Good luck. Jul 29 17 05:35 am Link I have loads of respect for pro makeup artists, and I don't envy them. Many times they deal with model application situations that border on stinky impossible, and most all of them come out smelling like a rose. The huge investments they incur on both their education and training, as well as 1000's of dollars in product purchases solidifies their commitment to the profession.
In my 40+ years of photography, I've worked with thousands (yes I said thousands) of makeup artists. I can't remember a single one that didn't have a kind-hearted disposition and bubbly personality. I think those are necessary traits in their service orientated profession. Jul 29 17 12:52 pm Link Jul 31 17 02:38 am Link I think you had a problem hiring a makeup artist vs a true "professional makeup artist."
there is a huge difference. Jul 31 17 02:38 am Link Thomas Andreas wrote: To each it's own!
Jul 31 17 12:39 pm Link I have almost always done my own makeup for shoots but I just worked with an MUA for the first time (not counting the one time I shot with a photographer who also did the hair and makeup) and she arrived early, was pleasant, professional and did a good job, consistent with what the photographer communicated with her that he wanted. Jul 31 17 05:06 pm Link Ken Marcus Studios wrote: I agree with you completely. I'm fortunate to have found two outstanding MUAs here in Vegas (one of whom happens to be married to a business partner of mine and has about 20 other applicators working for her). They each charge a lot and they are worth every penny. Good makeup, applied well by a good professional, absolutely enhances the look of a photo shoot. When a client asks me to provide makeup for models, I explain all of this to them, tell them that I know two outstanding MUAs, and if neither of them is available, I give them the "MUA vs Applicator" spiel. Usually, demands aren't very mission critical on makeup but when it is, I tell them that they need an artist to really nail it, just like they need a really good photographer. Everything is relative based on demand and budget.
Aug 01 17 07:59 am Link I hate photographers. So I will stop using them.
--The General Public Aug 01 17 04:54 pm Link So one bad experience with an MUA and you put them all in the same pool? Aug 01 17 06:09 pm Link When I read the title of your post I thought this is going to be funny, I wasn't expecting to see what you had written. With that said I can understand your frustration. However there are professionals and unprofessionals in every career. Some have degrees with talent some have no talent. Some come with experience some do not that's just the way it is in every profession. You know yourself as a professional photographer oh wait why do you call yourself a professional photographer why aren't you just a photographer? I'm sure you must see lots of work by a quote-unquote professional photographer that makes you crazy when you see the poor quality of their work and wonder why did they even get hired. Art is in the eye of the beholder and it's subjective. Sep 17 17 09:07 am Link a good MUA is an artist.
a good MUA who knows what you want and is able (and willing) to give it and does so on time ...? is an absolute GEM One in a million and worth their weight in GOLD!!! Sadly the majority are not all gems and may not give you what you wanted PLUS slow down the shoot before and during. Sep 18 17 01:09 pm Link I really do not mind having the MUA take up time. Good make up and styling, an appropriately cast model, mood board discussed and understood by everyone, lights and exposure tested. All this makes a successful shoot. The easiest thing in the shoot is to finally click the camera. Good collaboration saves time in post work too. What pisses me off is being late. Sep 19 17 07:51 am Link |
