|
Forums >
Digital Art and Retouching >
Color Management! I'm really confused!
Hello guys, I just got a new monitor (benQ SW2700pt), it has factory calibrated profiles such as: sRGB, adobe RGB, ... and things started to confuse me. Let say, i mainly work for web publishing, so whenever i export a file, i always convert it into sRGB mode. So my question are: - What should i set my monitor mode to? It looks really vibrant in Adobe RGB (Photo Mode), but i'm afraid when i got my desired color grading and send my photos to my clients, they are not going to see "that vibrant look" like i do. - What color space should Photoshop be set to? I'm waiting my i1 display pro to be delivered to calibrate both my benQ sw2700pt and my Dell XPS screen. When both screen not calibrated, i notice slightly color different, but my BenQ looks very warm compare to my dell xps 9550 and also my Dell U2312Hm screen. Many thanks Feb 21 17 01:06 am Link Chester Nguyen wrote: These are not factory calibrated profiles in the sense of device profiles. These are color space profiles. Let say, i mainly work for web publishing, so whenever i export a file, i always convert it into sRGB mode. So my question are: Adobe RGB gamut contains more saturated colors than sRGB. If your client doesn't have a device capable of displaying Adobe RGB colors they won't see those colors (simply said: they will look less saturated). Buying a wide gamut monitor and restricting it to display sRGB doesn't make sense. Use proofing to check how colors would look in a different color space. - What color space should Photoshop be set to? In case you are asking about working color profile: choosing one with a wider gamut (e.g. Adobe RGB or Prophoto) will prevent colors from clipping easily in the saturated areas. So it is better to work this way and convert to the final profile of your choice as the last step when exporting the image. I'm waiting my i1 display pro to be delivered to calibrate both my benQ sw2700pt and my Dell XPS screen. When both screen not calibrated, i notice slightly color different, but my BenQ looks very warm compare to my dell xps 9550 and also my Dell U2312Hm screen. They may have different white points. Also remember that calibration and profiling won't ensure identical colors on 2 different monitors, especially if they are with different color gamut. Calibration can help you only with in-gamut colors but it doesn't ensure that perceived color will be identical. You may want to read about metamerism. Feb 21 17 01:53 am Link sounds to me like a colour temperature issue and not a file format one. try setting both monitors to 6500k and calibrate them when you get your i1. Here's a bit of info about srgb and adobe rgb that you might find useful. https://fstoppers.com/pictures/adobergb-vs-srgb-3167 http://kenrockwell.com/tech/adobe-rgb.htm Feb 21 17 01:57 am Link anchev wrote: So i should setup soft proof to Internet Standard RGB? Feb 21 17 07:35 am Link Yes, you can soft proof to sRGB... But, if the final destiny of your photos is the internet and/or a mini lab, you can work only in sRGB, this will cut a step in the workflow... If they are to be printed into something better than a mini lab like a inkjet with lots of color and photographic paper, better work in a color space larger than sRGB, for glossy paper better ProPhoto RGB and for matte paper Adobe RGB may be enough see https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19468076 BTW, calibrate the BenQ monitor with BenQ Palette Master Element and not with X-rite Software. http://www.benq.com/product/monitor/sw2700pt/downloads/ Feb 21 17 08:18 am Link Chester Nguyen wrote: The purpose of soft proofing is to check how color would look in the destination color profile. If you want to check how your client sees the image on their monitor after calibrating your own monitor you can ask them to send you their monitor profile and you can soft proof to it. Similarly you can proof to any target profile you want - be it a device profile (printer, display etc) or a color space profile (sRGB, aRGB etc). Remember though that soft proofing to a device profile which may be have a gamut containing colors that your monitor is incapable of reproducing won't show you these colors. In those cases you may want to use hard proofing. Feb 21 17 08:39 am Link Can you guys help me to double check my settings as follow: - Windows Color Management: + On Devices tab: (Use my setting for this device is ticked) Display 1: BenQ SW2700PT Profiles asociate with this deviceare: BenQ SW 2700PT Color Profile, D6500 (default) and sRGB IEC1966-2.1 Display 2: Dell U2312HM Profiles asociate with this deviceare: Dell U2312HM - Custom Color.icc (default) and sRGB IEC1966-2.1 + on Advanced tab: Windows Color System Defaults Device Profile: System default (sRGB IEC1996-2.1) (Use WIndows display calibration is ticked - grayed out) - Photoshop Color settings: Color space: Adobe RGB then in Photoshop, soft proofing: - When i select Internet Standard RGB as soft proof destination, the proofed file looks so much different - ways more blue and less green - When Monitor RGB is selected, it's different, only more red Then i use "Export for web" feature, the picture looks really red with Monitor Color Preview. But if i choose sRGB (no color management), the picture looks just less saturated (like when you change from adobe RGB to sRGB mode) I'm really confused This is how it looks in Photoshop (adobe RGB), Facebook, and Windows Photo Viewer  Feb 21 17 08:09 pm Link Chester, Color management is a complex matter and should not be approached by simply "set it and forget it" check boxes but with understanding. Let me try to explain shortly, so you can see the basic principle and hopefully this may help you to avoid further confusion. Color is not RGB. The actual perceived color is defined in color models such as LAB and XYZ which are used as profile connection spaces. RGB has no color meaning per-se, it is rather an instruction for color. Example: rgb = (50, 60, 70) can render on one device as one color (LAB values) and as a different color on another device (other LAB values). To know what actual color particular RGB values represent you need a color profile. The profile is the thing which maps RGB values to their Lab values etc. There are different types of color profiles: device profiles, abstract profiles, space profiles etc. That is very simply put. Of course there is a huge science behind all that. Now to your questions: It is incorrect to associate sRGB (or Adobe RGB) with your device because sRGB is not a device profile. It is a generic color space profile. If you want to make sure your device handles color properly you need to calibrate and profile it, meaning - to set the hardware to proper parameters and then using a measurement device (colorimeter or spectrophotometer) create a profile for it. Then you have to associate your device with that profile in the color management system (in your case - Windows display settings). If you reached this point: what you have now is correct mapping of RGB values to color. Photoshop (or any other software) The working color space of your file may be (and normally should be) different from that of your device. What you want generally is a profile which gives you enough color values to work with without clipping. That's why we normally work in wider spaces such as Adobe RGB or Phophoto. Proofing: This is the process when one color space is translated to another so you can check how the same image will look in a different color space. What matters is how the color values are translated. For that you need to choose also a rendering intent. (check wikipedia etc) It is normal to notice difference in color when proofing to another profile. That's the whole purpose of it. Additionally in Photoshop you can check out of gamut colors which may help you to adjust the image in a way that there is no clipping of color gamut at the destination. Browsers (and other image viewers): A browser is a different program. It may use a different color rendering system from that of Photoshop. It may or may not read correctly the color profile of the image. It may use a different rendering intent. This means: color in browser may not look the same as in Photoshop for the same image. As per my own testing: current versions of Chrome and Firefox seem to render colors properly even for Adobe RGB and by default Firefox uses perceptual rendering intent. Also some image viewers understand color management, others don't. For windows you can try Irfan View. It has a lot of plugins and an option to respect color profiles. Web sites: When you upload an image to a website, the web server may change the image (e.g. Facebook). It may strip away the color profile data and it may additionally compress the image. Obviously that may lead to different look too. If you want to check that you should test how each site handles images and of course that may change at any time. Usually the lack of color profile means the client should render it as sRGB. Generally when exporting for web it is recommended to use sRGB as it is supposed that all devices can render this and even if the sRGB profile is stripped from the image it would still look the same. However it is good practice to embed the sRGB when exporting. I have seen some cases when browsers display different (incorrect) color with and without embedded sRGB profile. Feb 22 17 01:52 am Link Chester Nguyen wrote: Have you tried just using Convert to Profile in the Edit menu? And then when you save, obviously tick the Save Color Profile (something like that) option in the Save window, and make sure it says sRGB. Feb 22 17 07:24 pm Link Benski wrote: It is important to clarify what you mean by regular monitor. The OLED screens of new phones cover almost full Adobe RGB. Wide gamut is making its way more and more to consumer level monitors too. Camera sensors very often can capture some gamut which is wider than Adobe RGB and for print you surely have something bigger than sRGB. So deliberately removing the color info which is already there is a form of destructive post processing. It is like working in black and white just to be on the safe side. Feb 23 17 01:21 am Link ... and right when you think it's the end, you find out there's more! OK, so now you've calibrated your super high resolution wide gamut monitor using color checkers, monitor calibrators, and even printer calibration devices and you find out that your client is going to hang your masterpiece in the library of their mansion. Now you have to adjust the color of the final print to the lighting in the room. And yes, there's an app for that. It's included with Canon medium format printers. Feb 24 17 10:07 am Link Benski wrote: thanks. i used to do that, just tried using ""export"" feature to have a faster workflow but i guess i''d come back to that. Feb 27 17 06:37 pm Link anchev wrote: i'd definitely go with adobe RGB in editing. but i still dont know how to fix this "preview"" issue. Hoping after my i1 pro arrive i can get rid of this Feb 27 17 06:38 pm Link Chester Nguyen wrote: I'm pretty sure the issue is with just the viewers. When your monitor is in Wide Gamut mode, "Photos" app will display your images over saturated. You'll notice the same with Windows IE. Try opening your image in "Windows Photo Viewer"; not "Photos". The default skin of Windows Photo Viewer is more neutral/blue vs Photos which is black. You should see your image with less saturation. Feb 27 17 09:15 pm Link Chester Nguyen wrote: The spectrophotometer will not make websites and browsers display everything identically and forever. It will just help you see color more accurately in the color managed apps which work correctly. If a website messes up the metadata upon upload there is really nothing you can do. Some time ago I even noticed that Facebook would display differently the same image exported as JPG and PNG, both with the same embedded profile. I don't know if it is fixed. There are issues with all kinds of software all the time. Just make sure you understand how color management works and then you will know how to prepare your files for the client. Feb 28 17 12:29 am Link anchev wrote: Thank you for your insights Mar 01 17 08:09 am Link |
