anchev wrote:
Talking a lot doesn't mean knowing a lot.

So true!

anchev wrote:
But following an opinion, a guidance, success-recipes, "right way of doing things" etc is absolutely unnecessary and harmful.

..Because..?

And I can quote Samuel Delaney, an extremely innovative and unusual writer - who practised a much deeper art than any photo retoucher - in direct contradiction of you. (From an essay of his I read this morning in fact.) It also has to be significant that the person you are arguing is the best retoucher I've seen on MM and has a style that's completely free of cliches. Absorbing what Delaney refers to as possible "models" of art seems to be part of achieving artistic maturity.

thiswayup wrote:
..Because..?

Because one becomes a second hand person.

I wonder what anyone would be able to say without quoting or praising someone else

anchev wrote:
Because one becomes a second hand person.

To be honest, this statement sounds like something a paranoid schizophrenic would say.

And again to be honest, no one cares how you feel. The thread is about how to produce better work. For you to say that *you* haven't been able to learn anything from anyone else is a statement that you can sanely make. But when you tell a guy who is literally world-class as a retoucher that he has damaged his skills by learning from other people, then you just look like a loon. He's so good that I wasn't even surprised by his publications list:

Cosmopolitan, Elle, GQ, Grazia, Harpers Bazaar, HerWorld, i-D, Instyle, Interview, Les Echos, Look, Mirage, Mail on Sunday Magazine, Marie Claire, Maxi, L’Officiel, Red, Schon, The Sun Magazine, Vision, Vogue, Volt, Wonderland.

...And you're telling him that if he had learned the way that YOU thinks he should have then he'd so much better? No, this is insane. He's a retouching genius and he knows what worked for him.

I wonder what anyone would be able to say without quoting

The point is that Delaney does actually have huge artistic achievements and can claim astonishing originality. You are a guy who knows how to use photoshop. Full stop. If Delaney, from the point of view of his experience as a creative artist, which you are not, says that you're wrong that the only way to create is X while he did the opposite, then you are wrong.

This isn't about opinion - it would be if you said your way was the better way - it's about fact, because he is factually contradicting you from his own experience. (And obviously, even if this about opinion, the opinion of some guy who has a copy of photoshop against the author of Dahlgren and Titan, on the subject of creativity... Not terribly equal.)

a k mac wrote:
I looked at your portfolio Oana, and your skills are very impressive.

The whole issue of testing is complex. It has been common practice for many years, not only for those starting out, but also for seasoned practitioners who seek to develop contacts, expand their portfolios and explore creative collaborations etc. I think perhaps the word 'test' can lead to confusion. Very often it's a case of the retoucher approaching a photographer and offering to do some initial work.
I would recommend you research what Natalia Taffarel has written about these matters. She has some very sound advice, which is well worth reading.

PS Best not to watermark your work.

Thank you! You have an awesome portfolio too. I will take a look about what Natalia said about these.

Anchev: "The point is that everyone who gets caught in this pattern starts repeating parrot like the recipes, the same things to infinity. There is no learning in that, no matter who may label it as learning, a class or whatever."

Anchev: You are starting with the assumption that one is ignorant and will become less ignorant by surrendering oneself to the authority of another? Copying from another, following instruction. Is that not an act of ignorance itself? All this creates is dependence.

Please work to keep comments on the original posters topic... and have them be focused on the thread of the Original Poster.

The Original Posters Question / Thread was:  "About test images and no answer after that.  Do retouch on an image for test and do not receive a positive or negative answer ? Am I wrong with something?  Am I at low level ?"

Thanks.

anchev wrote:
What can I say... I have always had a strict no-free-testing policy. I have done it twice in my life and I won't do it again. There is the portfolio + I can show hi-res before/afters upon request. If the other party cannot evaluate the quality of the retouching from such info - there is nothing more to test because a test will not show anything different. As we all know the technical process is the same regardless of the type of image, genre etc. The rest is art direction and that is to come from the client, not from you. So as long as you have beauty images in your portfolio and can show a full size before/after - there is absolutely no reason to waste time for anyone's testing.

If someone wants you to test, he should pay you for this. This is your time, your eyes, your computer. You have no obligation to work for free. Clients who are serious respect your work and your time and they never ask for this. Only someone who has no money, no eyes for your work and no understanding of the post-processing will ask for a free ride. If someone is so afraid to spend $50-$100 - what kind of business can you expect from such person? Remember that a beginner model on MM takes this money for 1 hour and professional ones take x2-3 and more. That is considered normal and acceptable.

So respect the client but don't kneel before them. Find the words to kindly remind them this is a professional service, not a school exam. Otherwise you will be doing tests to infinity.

I agree, but what i found is that there some very smart photographers on here and other sites, sometime they post photos with the condition it cant be marked, signed, no before or after, a classic line is " will be looking to work with talented retouchers for future paid work " etc.. or something alike or even to be credited ( add a name and it come up on google search ) wait for the edit to come in and say nothing..wait about 2 months and you see your work on their website, portfolio with no mention of the work you done...looks like they done a marvellous job taking photos, all hail the photographer..ego boosted.
So before doing freebiies as the poster above has said, its your time, your experience, you are providing a service.

Original Poster Oana:  Hey, thank you for your encouragement.  I will try to figure out a way. Here on MM, it is hard to find something good. Outside is hard, too, because there are retouchers who have a very good portfolio and better clients than me.  Since I didn't have the opportunity to work with big / good clients, I'm inferior to them (because of the quality of their photos - and I don't mean only the retouching, but the photos itself). And for most of them, I think that it counts...

OP - Oana.  I have looked at your on-line portfolio (not just here at MM).  I think your portfolio is VERY WELL DONE!  It is professional looking.  It displays and formats well.  It has great examples of images and retouches.  It has EXCELLENT diversity...fashion, beauty, products and commercial examples. It is wonderful quality compared to many others. Nice Job!  Im really impressed!

I think maybe you might already know this...BUT One of the Best Places on the internet to get Free, professional level, full, high-resolution, RAW images, to to download and practice with in your portfolio... is right here at Mayhem !!! 

These practice retouch images are taken by professional grade photographers... and many images are of a very high commercial quality.  The photographers at the link below will let you download their RAW images for free...  and let you use them here on Mayhem in your Retouching Portfolio here as examples.  Many images include the finest quality beautiful models, professional lighting, great cameras, and creative themes.  There is no excuse any more to think that YOU Dont Have Great Examples to show off your retouching work!

If you want to use some of these images on your commercial grade web site - then just do a Private Message to the photographer and ask permission to use the images in your commercial quality web site.  Some might say no... a good number of them dont care... just as long as you ASK Privately FIRST!!!  They may ask you to include their name in your watermark as the photographer... but thats no problem for you.  Some others might also like a copy of your retouch work that they can use too.  You have to work it out privately with the photographer... just ask... explain your situation... give him a link to your site... and see what happens

So,  Here is the link to some of the best free, quality, RAW photographic images on the internet:

https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/thread/76

Enjoy

Myke_uk - In a la Mode wrote:
I agree, but what i found is that there some very smart photographers on here and other sites, sometime they post photos with the condition it cant be marked, signed, no before or after, a classic line is " will be looking to work with talented retouchers for future paid work " etc.. or something alike or even to be credited ( add a name and it come up on google search ) wait for the edit to come in and say nothing..wait about 2 months and you see your work on their website, portfolio with no mention of the work you done...looks like they done a marvellous job taking photos, all hail the photographer..ego boosted.
So before doing freebiies as the poster above has said, its your time, your experience, you are providing a service.

What is more important is that this whole system which you described is hurting all retouchers, I would even say - the whole attitude towards retouchers. When 1000 people show 1000 similar portfolios the existence of portfolio becomes meaningless. People start to suspect that retouchers are potential liars as portfolios lack authenticity. Hence the requests for free tests, frustrations, difficulty to find work, spam behavior, photographers raging in forums, retouchers raging in other forums etc. So good intentions don't always lead to good results. Although the rules in the challenges forum say "It is NOT intended as a way for photographers to have their images retouched for free." practically it is exactly that. Even worse.

Oana Telegredean wrote:
Hello there!

Is there someone who had experiences like that? Do retouch an image for test and do not receive a positive or negative answer ?

Am I wrong with something?

Here is my portfolio: www.oanatelegredean.com

Am I at low level ?

Every artist has room to grow, sky is the limit.

Since you work for a few years in this area, I think will be helpful to separate a bit the artist side from the business side. As any other freelancer you have in fact two jobs: you are an artist and a manager.

I talk to friends who work in sales and they all agree in one thing: growing and marketing a business is the toughest job in the world. Managing a business is not easy. 96 percent of business fail. You can search statistics and see especially in last years, more businesses are closing than opening (globally, not only in photography).

Offering a free sample is just an advertising action. Sometimes it works, sometimes doesn't (just like paid samples).

When I don't have time for free I ask for paid samples. Some people are happy to pay for a sample and if it works for them they continue sending photos.