Forums > Digital Art and Retouching > How to modify frequency domain as a curve / mask

Photographer

PhotoshootNinja

Posts: 23

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

I'm wondering if there is a way to modify the frequency domain using curves so that I can raise or lower certain frequency components in an image.  I'd also would like to create a feathered mask so that I can do brush work within a feathered bandpass of frequencies.  In the same way I can control the size and softness of a brush, I would like to be able to change the frequency range and how "soft" the edges of the frequency cutoff are.

Oct 09 16 08:27 am Link

Retoucher

3869283

Posts: 1464

Sofia, Sofija grad, Bulgaria

Working with / isolating a particular frequency in photoshop is done through sequence of operations including blurring with a specified radius. That radius is what defines your bandpass and what you call edge softness. I don't think you would be able to control this using a curve because blur is a raster level process and curves are a form of color transformation.

Oct 09 16 01:47 pm Link

Photographer

Bernard Wolf

Posts: 62

Santa Monica, California, US

If you want to control the range of frequencies you would have to make multiple separations with different blur levels and work on the appropriate separation that had the blur level that fits what you are asking for.....not that difficult and would give you good control and choices.

Oct 09 16 02:08 pm Link

Retoucher

3869283

Posts: 1464

Sofia, Sofija grad, Bulgaria

Bernard Wolf wrote:
If you want to control the range of frequencies you would have to make multiple separations with different blur levels and work on the appropriate separation that had the blur level that fits what you are asking for.....not that difficult and would give you good control and choices.

Yes, that's an option but with a high resolution image it would make process very heavy as the file will become huge and it will need a lot of memory too.

Oct 09 16 02:14 pm Link

Photographer

TMA Photo and Training

Posts: 1009

Lancaster, Pennsylvania, US

As far as "Selectively" being able to apply the frequencies and detail ( after the Apply Image Step)...you would simply add a black mask to that particular layer.  That black mask will totally hide all of the skin pores and detail on that layer.  Then... with your 6% soft white brush...select the mask...and then paint on the mask with white.  Where ever you paint with white on the black mask...that is where the skin pores and detail will be revealed in your image.  The more you paint... the more pores will be added to exactly where you are applying the white. 

If you use a Soft white brush...then your edges of the masked area will also be feathered and look soft and blended.  You use a 6% opacity brush instead of a 60 or 100 percent opacity brush...so that your brush strokes and the edges and brush overlaps do not show up.

So...with this concept... you can completely control  Where  the pores are going to show up...and  How Strong  they will be... and you will also be able to have controllable  Soft Blended Edges  around your pore boundaries and edges. 

To erase the effect above:  If you ever over do the strength of the pores... or want to change the position of where the pores are being applied... you simply change your brush to a black brush...and paint on the black layer mask... and now the black color will  Erase  the effect you have just laid down. 

So, Here is the rule:  Use a White Layer Mask to REVEAL the detail in the layers thumbnail... Use a Black Mask to HIDE the thumbnails contents.  Use a 6% opacity Soft White Brush to Reveal the pores...Use a Black Brush to Erase the pores.

I also agree with the above posters about how to get different frequencies. 

If you want to create 3 different strengths of pores... then make several copies of your base image to create the radiuses on... and then make additional copies to receive the final Apply Image effect.   Then...Blur one image with 2 pixels radius, or 6 pixels, or 34 pixels... depending on the resolution of your image.  Then... go to the Apply Image area and simply process each radius image by using the layer drop down menu.  Apply the frequency effect to the other copied images.  This will then give you several different bandpass frequencies to work with.  Use the naming feature of each layer to tell what it is... to keep your head straight.   Then... after creating each of your frequency band images... put a Black Layer Mask on each detail layer.  Then... paint with a White brush on its black layer mask... to reveal just a little bit of detail here,  some different detail over there... and  some special detail under the eyes... etc etc.   Also, you can delete the layers you dont need to save some space.  Im not aware of of using curves to control the Image Blur function.

Now you can have 3 different  frequency bands...with complete visual control... and the ability to adjust the effects in each area to your liking.  The black layer masking technique allows you to Combine all the different radiuses onto one image... at the same time... with interactive precision control!  You can PM me if you get stuck.

Best of Luck!

Oct 09 16 03:54 pm Link

Photographer

Photo666studio

Posts: 8

Miami, Florida, US

TMA Photo and Training wrote:
As far as "Selectively" being able to apply the frequencies and detail ( after the Apply Image Step)...you would simply add a black mask to that particular layer.  That black mask will totally hide all of the skin pores and detail on that layer.  Then... with your 6% soft white brush...select the mask...and then paint on the mask with white.  Where ever you paint with white on the black mask...that is where the skin pores and detail will be revealed in your image.  The more you paint... the more pores will be added to exactly where you are applying the white. 

If you use a Soft white brush...then your edges of the masked area will also be feathered and look soft and blended.  You use a 6% opacity brush instead of a 60 or 100 percent opacity brush...so that your brush strokes and the edges and brush overlaps do not show up.

So...with this concept... you can completely control  Where  the pores are going to show up...and  How Strong  they will be... and you will also be able to have controllable  Soft Blended Edges  around your pore boundaries and edges. 

To erase the effect above:  If you ever over do the strength of the pores... or want to change the position of where the pores are being applied... you simply change your brush to a black brush...and paint on the black layer mask... and now the black color will  Erase  the effect you have just laid down. 

So, Here is the rule:  Use a White Layer Mask to REVEAL the detail in the layers thumbnail... Use a Black Mask to HIDE the thumbnails contents.  Use a 6% opacity Soft White Brush to Reveal the pores...Use a Black Brush to Erase the pores.

I also agree with the above posters about how to get different frequencies. 

If you want to create 3 different strengths of pores... then make several copies of your base image to create the radiuses on... and then make additional copies to receive the final Apply Image effect.   Then...Blur one image with 2 pixels radius, or 6 pixels, or 34 pixels... depending on the resolution of your image.  Then... go to the Apply Image area and simply process each radius image by using the layer drop down menu.  Apply the frequency effect to the other copied images.  This will then give you several different bandpass frequencies to work with.  Use the naming feature of each layer to tell what it is... to keep your head straight.   Then... after creating each of your frequency band images... put a Black Layer Mask on each detail layer.  Then... paint with a White brush on its black layer mask... to reveal just a little bit of detail here,  some different detail over there... and  some special detail under the eyes... etc etc.   Also, you can delete the layers you dont need to save some space.  Im not aware of of using curves to control the Image Blur function.

Now you can have 3 different  frequency bands...with complete visual control... and the ability to adjust the effects in each area to your liking.  The black layer masking technique allows you to Combine all the different radiuses onto one image... at the same time... with interactive precision control!  You can PM me if you get stuck.

Best of Luck!

Either I am doing something wrong, or there is a problem with the above solution as I have tried it and it created a horrible mess.  I have been seeking a solution to the above problem in a related post.

If you create all those layers with different frequencies and they are all in 'contrast group blend mode', i.e. linear light, as soon as one layer "sees" the other layer below it will exaggerate the overall contrast by an additive effect that the blend mode has with all the layers below. The resulting stack of multiple frequencies all in linear light become very "explosive", the smallest change on one of the layers immediately gets translated down to the final image and the effects are very strong and "multiplicative". Having fine small pores on top of the tones image looks great,(except for the missing middle band frequencies, assuming they are masked out currently) but having fine pores now interact with large pores that were placed on top of the tones/colors now creates a very uneven image with very contrasty patches.

Perhaps someone can help me clarify this problem of multiple frequencies?
Thank you

Oct 24 16 07:23 pm Link

Photographer

Photo666studio

Posts: 8

Miami, Florida, US

Bernard Wolf wrote:
If you want to control the range of frequencies you would have to make multiple separations with different blur levels and work on the appropriate separation that had the blur level that fits what you are asking for.....not that difficult and would give you good control and choices.

Can you give a precise complete workflow that allows for multiple frequency separation?
Thank you

Oct 24 16 07:24 pm Link

Photographer

TMA Photo and Training

Posts: 1009

Lancaster, Pennsylvania, US

OOPS... yea you are right.  After you do the apply image step you get a gray high pass looking layer with just the pores on it.  That layer is in linear light blending mode mode usually at 50% opacity so the intensity comes out correct.

The missing step is to clip the layers to the main image below.  All 3 different frequency band layers need to be on top of eachother...and then you alt or option click in between the layers...until a double circle icon appears.  Click and this will allow this layer to only affect the layer below it...not all the way down the stack.  To not clip the layers back to the base image will give you a multiplication effect.  So, do a clipping layer with all 3 layers...and use the black mask to hide each layer...so now when you paint on the black mask with a soft 6% opacity white brush...it will reveal the pores coming over the image at the bottom...the low frequency layer.  So, you would paint in the different frequency layers onto the part of the image where they look good to you.  If you paint on an area...and you dont like the way it looks...then simply change the brush to a black brush...and paint away the pores at that part.  You can put the frequency (pores) where ever you like, and however strong you like, and with the softness you like.

Doing 3 separate frequencies at a time is not an easy concept to do...and trying to explain it in "words" is even a bit trickier.  Apologies for leaving the clip all 3 layers to the base low frequency layer step.  Sorry.

Oct 24 16 08:00 pm Link