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Actually getting people to work together? How?
Ok, I'm not a great photographer, I don't claim to be. I'd like to be and I do what I can to improve when I can. But here's what I am struggling with. Getting people to shoot with me. I send the model, MUA, Hair stylist, etc a message and explains hat I am looking to do, when, where, etc and ask if they want to shoot. Varied responses come back. Some say yes and then disappear, others say no and some say maybe with other comments tossed in. I imagine all of us have had that happen at one time or another. What I can't figure out is how some of these photographers get model after model after model after MUA, etc to pose for them as the images are either mediocre at best or derivative at worst. There's a handful of photographers in one particular location that have 30-40 different model in their port that are all the exact same image over and over and over again. 30-40 models that are all out of focus or horrible lighting, etc. Hair is a mess, MU is a mess. images are blown out in certain areas...just an over all mess. Again, I've had that before, sometimes things just don't go as planned...that's just how it goes. So again I'm not claiming to be a great photographer, it's just frustrating to see these "photographers" get these people to work with them and create crap and still have people flock to their MM port to line up to take images. How are they getting these models/MUA/Stylists to shoot with them? I guess they could all be paid shoots, but I know a couple of the people I am asking about and I and quite sure they are not wealthy enough to bank roll that many shoots without any compensation in return. Any thoughts? Sep 18 16 09:16 am Link It helps to think in terms of how the shoot will benefit each party. What does each person need or want to get out of the shoot? That will usually require you to explicitly ask each party about needs and expectations. That may require several rounds of negotiations and people will likely drop out and others will be brought in for consideration. The more complex the shoot, the more problematic the organizing will likely be. Best bet for complex shoots with models and hair and makeup and assistants? Save those shoots for people you already know. If photographers are consistently cranking out crap and still getting models and muahs to work with them, they're either paying them well or those models and muahs just can't tell a good image from a crappy one. It happens. Or the photographer has some really harsh blackmail material on them. Sep 18 16 09:53 am Link Orca Bay Images wrote: What you said I agree with. But if a response is not received, it's hard to negotiate, discuss, etc. I guess I need to dig up some blackmail material! Sep 18 16 10:15 am Link Some photographers put a lot of effort into their shoots. Driving to pick models up and dropping them off. Some who don't pay buy lunch or are lots of fun to work with. Perhaps models help bring them models or they're friends with a MUA who helps get models. Maybe they pay. Meet up groups are a decent way to meet models. Reach out to some who seem to have lots of models and ask can you join them for a shoot or help out. Sep 18 16 10:23 am Link Barrister Photography wrote: If you don't get a response, write them off for that project. Have a list of candidates for each job in the shoot. Somebody drops out, try the next person on the list. Sep 18 16 10:34 am Link I used to make a modest living (better than at any "normal" job I ever had in my 20s) shooting with people who didn't generally have the greatest portfolios. Some were quite good; many had extremely limited skill sets, for assorted reasons. Some produced positively awful images that I still dig out, years later, when I need a good laugh. It was a way to travel and see the country, while essentially running my own business, despite being extremely young and a female. So what does this mean in relation to your question? A lot of models who shoot with "bad" photographers are getting paid, often with enough frequency to live modestly (or rather comfortably) on the income. This typically includes modeling for "workshops" geared toward beginner photographers, where a more experienced shooter sets up the lights and several guys shoot the same model, back to back, in different sets for a few hours at a time. That is probably why you are seeing the same shots in different people's ports Sep 18 16 11:07 am Link J D R Photography wrote: If hair and makeup are a mess, then it doesn't sound like these people are experienced. Maybe they're makeup school students or those just getting started, want/need the practice and are looking to build a portfolio. Sep 18 16 01:52 pm Link Koryn wrote: A group shoot workshop is certainly a good possibility. Sep 18 16 01:54 pm Link ChadAlan wrote: Agree with that for sure, unfortunately, I live in the middle of nowhere....closest group shoot that I've been able to find has been about 5 hours away....I'll keep looking around. Sep 18 16 03:26 pm Link J D R Photography wrote: I believe you read Chad's response to my post, but skipped over my post, and therefore misinterpreted our point. You are probably seeing the same shots in a lot of different people's portfolios because they are all attending the same workshop groups. Sep 18 16 03:29 pm Link J D R Photography wrote: Your town has 18,000 pop. and a university. Should be plenty of models available, especially if you can cough up even a few shekels. Have you tried ads in the univ newspaper, local alternative papers, bulletin boards, Craigslist? Sep 18 16 04:15 pm Link Eagle Rock Photographer wrote: I have tried a couple of those resources to attract people., but in all fairness, I've just recently moved to this area. Sep 19 16 05:51 am Link *You are just going to have to try and try and keep trying....and in the meantime...keep shooting and trying and reaching out...and shooting and trying..!!...That's what I have been doing/do/did/still do....fortunately...I am one of the *Lucky* ones who can get a model or two and a MUAH, etc....when I need one...but if not...I learned to do everything myself...(except model)....but I keep trying and doing and shooting and rinse and repeat...that's how it's done..!!....Also...I don't worry about what others are doing...I keep my head down...focused on what I want...don't compare yourself with what others get or don't get.....work on your own portfolio...the rest will come..!!..*Good Luck* Sep 19 16 07:00 am Link J D R Photography wrote: Koryn wrote: I should have bolded the relevant part in your post Koryn. JDR, those photographers may be part of a workshop event where everything is provided, models, mua, hair, wardrobe. Sep 19 16 08:35 am Link People act on incentive. An agency model who has notable pay at stake and may get fired if she flakes has a lot of incentive to show up. Hiring freelance models or MUAs, especially newbies, you have no personal connection with have less incentive to commit or responsibly follow through. Having a good reputation, having good images, and offering good pay are all incentives that can help as does good communication and good pre-selection. Personally, I also just accept that many models here have no real interest in modeling and that a large percent of freelance models will cancel. When I book a shoot, I look at is something that may or may not actually happen. I plan an alternative use of my time and don't invest anything in a shoot I'll lose if a model cancels last minute. Sep 19 16 08:44 am Link J D R Photography wrote: Regarding this part above, yes it happens. Don't let it wear on you. Team up with a makeup artist if you can and that will help. Try Instagram and Facebook. Join some Facebook groups that focus on models, photographers and casting call postings. Sep 19 16 08:54 am Link J D R Photography wrote: security? for who? have never asked models to sign liability wavers, even in sports shots. Sep 19 16 09:34 am Link they may well be paying the models and using ways of cutting other costs - like hiriing student MUAs or having the models to do thier own makeup Sep 19 16 09:36 am Link J D R Photography wrote: LoL, geez JD, I only get THAT jerked around at closing time at my local watering hole!! LoL Sep 20 16 02:18 pm Link When it comes to questions like this, just as with many other things, you'll often get as many different answers as there are people that answer you. Most often it's about personal experience and what has worked or not worked for each individual rather than being a right or wrong answer. With that said I'll give you my take on the situation. Anyway, when it comes to finding models it often has as much to do with your personality and if you're a lot of fun or not. Myself I know for a fact that I'm a shit load of fun. Models have always liked me and my clients like me. They have always come to work with me and or hire me because of who I am rather than what I do. Just like you I do not consider myself a great photographer. I mean, I have a basic understanding of photography and I can take a decent photograph. But that doesn't make me a great photographer or some kind of artist or something like that. I however am good with people. There was a time about 9 or 10 years ago that I did a lot of TFT. If I wanted to I could've shot one of the local models almost every day of the week. Working with local models is about reputation and the people that you know. These days however as I get more and more work and better work I actually have less time and inclanation to TFP. In fact these days I almost never do. It's not because I'm unwilling. Being self employed and a one man show at that I'm a busy man and work day and night. There is little time to plan, shot and process model images. These days if I decide that I'd like to shoot one of the local models just for fun it's highly unlikely that I could find anyone to work with me. That's just the way it goes because no one knows me anymore. I mean, most of the local models know my name but they've never met me, they know nothing about me and have no references or no one that they know regularly speaks of me these days. In the beginning you may shoot two or thee people a year. Then more till you could be booked every day of you like. It just takes time to build that reputation. That reputation can also be lost for no other reason that becoming inactive in your local modeling circle. I’m proof of that. That’s just the way I see it......  Sep 25 16 12:13 am Link The clue as to why you are not getting models to work with you is in your profile. I think it's fine that you only shoot for trade. I am not sure you have to plaster that all over your profile. Many models that may be interested just shut down after they realize there is no compensation. Also how you handle your TFCD could actualy be hurting you. Bear with me. So you give a model a CD to look through and then allow them to pick 7 images which you will " finish". How long does that take? What sets your work apart from anyone else shooting. Do you have a recognizable style that models can't get enough of? I won't hazard a guess but you certainly can ask in critique to see what others might say. I shoot primarily art nudes and they are also 90 % shot TF. Other will tell you that that is impossible but in truth it is not. What I do do is give the model 20 to 30 images edited. I also complete all edits and return to the model within 2 days. After 10 shoots I create a blurb book 50 pages with her best work from our shoots and present that to her. I will always pick the model up if she wants, to take her to the studio or on location and bring her home. I just created new shooting dates yesterday with 2 new models to shoot nudes. Both are excited to work with me and both will be amazing to work with. Anyway good luck, keep your profile message up beat and positive. Let the reader see your passion for what you do by your words as well as your images. Sep 25 16 11:43 am Link |
