Garry k wrote:
Top Working ( non Icon ) Model according to Models.com

http://models.com/model_culture/50topmo … &lnumber=1

I love Daria. She's so beautiful. I love the campaign she did for Chanel.

Lightwave Photography wrote:
The best way for models to do well in the 21st century is to be freelance and learn how to promote and market themselves with professional photos and smart marketing on the internet.

Sorry... you are wrong!

Pretty much none of the top fashiondesigners, e.g. Michael Koors, Anna Sui, Zang Toi, Oscar DeLaRenta etc. will hire a freelance model for NYC Fashionweek, and I can pretty much guarantee you that they won't check the internet for models.

I have seen at a Zang Toi casting how he looked at a stunning high fashion models' fully developed book, asking her which agency did send her and she said she's a freelance...

He said thank you for coming... Next!

To get regular, higher paying fashiongigs... paid jobs... gotta need an agency. You can hassle on your own, and some make a decent living... but... bottom line is... 70percent of the fashionmodels out there are freelance and have to work fulltime another job and do tons of little runway shows where they most of the time don't get paid... and have never a shot at the big shows with good pay.

That's at least how it's here in NYC... dunno... other fashionmarkets in this great country maybe much, much better suited for aspiring freelance models...

Lightwave Photography wrote:
You are simply confirming my point which is that most aspiring models are wasting their time if they want to be fashion models as only a very few(like winning the lottery)would be accepted at major fashion agencies.

Nope, I don't see that I confirmed your point... here is what is happening to the rest of the models (as written by me):

UdoR wrote:
To get regular, higher paying fashiongigs... paid jobs... gotta need an agency. You can hassle on your own, and some make a decent living... but... bottom line is... 70percent of the fashionmodels out there are freelance and have to work fulltime another job and do tons of little runway shows where they most of the time don't get paid... and have never a shot at the big shows with good pay.

Which means simply that the market is EXTREMELY difficult especially for freelancers... and you know why that is... because the agencies sign model types by market demands... and just pretty doesn't cut it. If agencies don't sign them... than that's because they don't have clients who would be willing to book the girls.

That is another reason why freelancers have it extra difficult trying to find jobs in a market they are often not needed in.

It's difficult for glamour assignments... and according to your portfolio, that's what you are good it and where you are moving in... and for that market, you are absolutely right.

But, Garry is pointing out a high fashion model... talking about the high fashion industry, but your argument is valid for non-high fashion models... the sexy girls with T&A, 5'4" and stunning bods... just not fashion.

What the internet and Tyra were also causing is that models who just are not... put up images on an internet board and call themself models. Everybody is a model now... and it's not PC to tell them otherwise.

Not everybody has the features and stats to be either a fashion, or a glamour model. Modeling is a priviledge for a few selected ones, not a right of the masses.

Lightwave Photography wrote:
I agree with your last part and the beauty of the internet is that it can create a more fair playing field especially for aspiring glamour type models.

I think my point is that the internet created an excessive flood of supplies of models, without increasing the demand for them (jobs).

UdoR wrote:

I think my point is that the internet created an excessive flood of supplies of models, without increasing the demand for them (jobs).

Yes, I agree the internet has opened the floodgates for untalented, wannabes but it has also created more moneymaking vehicles for talented models to make money directly from it and go directly to people that will hire them without using agencies.

Of course their are so many wannabe aspiring models that do have talent and look good that the only way they can separate from the pack and make the money is to invest in promoting themselves with websites, calendars, posters etc.

W.G. Rowland wrote:
I wish I understood..  Honestly.. What elevates one face so much higher than another..

I mean she is very pretty.. And I highly respect some of the opinions of people in this thread..

I just honestly... I guess something is miswired in my brain..

I don't see what is so much more "it" here than elsewhere..

And I swear.. This isn't a knock.. I'm not trying to pull down the thread.  I just want to understand..  I hate not getting it.

I think the exact same way..like there are some beautiful girls out there why are some more desired than others..ex. black models naomi, tyra, alek, januel, newcomer chanel what makes these models better that the tons of other models that are equally amazing?? like tamiko, jessica, selita, and gerren

Lightwave Photography wrote:
Fashion models aka human coat hangars

Most normal redblooded guys dont find them very sexy or particularly attractive.

have you looked at the MDC top 50? a few of them aren't very special in my eyes, but for the most part they're absolutely drop dead fucking STUNNING! yeah, in the context of the mm forums you hear that kind of crap all the time, "oh, fashion models do nothing for me" "they're boring" "they're not as hot as you are" and other such bullshit, but most of the time it's just that they are talking to girls they think they might actually meet or at least that they have some online friendship with and are trying to flatter them ingratiate themselves to them or make them feel better or something along those lines.

yeah, it might be true for some of the people saying it, and of course there are tons of incredible beauties here that are in fact as gorgeous as anyone, but the generalized (and way too frequent) statements that fashion models are boring or unattractive or not sexy is just total bullshit, and often asskissing bullshit directed to the models they're interacting with here. but the fact is if you look through the websites of any decent fashion agency and are honest you'll admit the girls are, for the most part, incredible and if most of them happened to be on mm guys would be tripping all over themselves to gush over them, and in fact there are many agency fashion models here and there is no shortage of worship for them.

Lightwave Photography wrote:
You are simply confirming my point which is that most aspiring models are wasting their time if they want to be fashion models as only a very few(like winning the lottery)would be accepted at major fashion agencies.

As I stated, most attractive freelancers are better off getting work on their own as COMMERCIAL models.  For example, they can do their own calendars, pay websites, promotional modeling etc instead of fashion modeling(not using agencies as most of them are a waste of time unless they are the top tier ones that aspiring models have no real chance of getting into) not fashion models which is now possible thanks to the internet. 

Again, my point is the internet has changed the game allowing aspiring models a chance to make money by going direct to clients interested in hiring them rather than at the mercy of bad agencies or waiting around hoping to get into a major name agency.

it sounds like you're using the word "commercial" as a layman would use it, but you're totally wrong in terms of what is actually known as commercial modeling in the real modeling world. glamour, swimsuit, promotional, and especially paysite modeling, are not what is meant by "commercial" as a type of modeling, although they can be commercial enterprises in plain english, and although sometimes commercial models might do those things (though usually not paysites). fashion modeling is "commercial" for that matter also in the way you're using the word.

but real working commercial models that have any sort of legitimate career at it are also almost always in good agencies, just commercial agencies instead of fashion ones, or else in commercial/beauty/lifestyle divisions of fashion agencies. yes, it's easier to freelance and find work as a commercial model than as a fashion model, but to get good high or decent paying commercial work with decent clients it's way easier and more consistant with a good agency than by freelancing.

commercial modeling, in industry terms, is generally advertising work or editorial work in non fashion and non glamour magazines, or catalog work and is commercial in the sense that it's advertising or promoting a product or service or brand or being used to illustrate an article or something where the client is a commercial enterprise (a magazine or book).  that's as opposed to fashion modeling, which is also used to advertise and promote products and brands (even the "editorials" which are more acurately termed "advertorials"), but is specifically geared toward "high fashion" brands or clothes, or brands trying to present themselves that way.

so although commercial models might do some stuff in a glamour style in the course of real commercial modeling, or swimsuit modeling in a commercial or catalog context, along with everything else they do, the kind of stuff you're talking about is more "consumer" or "retail" in nature if you think of it in the terms you'd apply to types of professional photographers where wedding/portrait/event shooters are "retail"/"consumer" where the subjects are the clients.  in the case it's the  model that's going direct to the public or end user, or the ridiculous, mostly internet spawned, phenomenon of the photographer as "client" and models themselves are the products.

i wonder, outside of porn, what the numbers and percentages are like amongst freelance internet models with paysites and calendars, or whom are seeking pay from photographers or hoping for commercial clients? how many are making a living at it or a consistant extra income from it? how much has the internet really "changed the game" in commercial modeling? how many jobs that used to go through agencies, that were willing to pay agency rates, are now going direct to internet freelance models?

Gina McNeil wrote:

I love Daria. She's so beautiful. I love the campaign she did for Chanel.

but anyway, regardless of some of what i said earlier, and though she's appearantly one of the most in demand now, and though she's beautiful, she's not really knocking my socks off and isn't one of my favorites from the top 50. and in fact, at the risk of sounding like some of the people i described and derided, i love your face much more than i do hers but it's true, it's true!

W.G. Rowland wrote:
I wish I understood..  Honestly.. What elevates one face so much higher than another..

I mean she is very pretty.. And I highly respect some of the opinions of people in this thread..

I just honestly... I guess something is miswired in my brain..

I don't see what is so much more "it" here than elsewhere..

And I swear.. This isn't a knock.. I'm not trying to pull down the thread.  I just want to understand..  I hate not getting it.

Ditto... There's just something about her face thatis just off to me. But, that's just me.

W.G. Rowland wrote:
I wish I understood..  Honestly.. What elevates one face so much higher than another..

I mean she is very pretty.. And I highly respect some of the opinions of people in this thread..

I just honestly... I guess something is miswired in my brain..

I don't see what is so much more "it" here than elsewhere..

And I swear.. This isn't a knock.. I'm not trying to pull down the thread.  I just want to understand..  I hate not getting it.

Well she is bueatiful AND nearly 6 feet tall -thats the magic combo !

UdoR wrote:

Sorry... you are wrong!

Pretty much none of the top fashiondesigners, e.g. Michael Koors, Anna Sui, Zang Toi, Oscar DeLaRenta etc. will hire a freelance model for NYC Fashionweek, and I can pretty much guarantee you that they won't check the internet for models.

I have seen at a Zang Toi casting how he looked at a stunning high fashion models' fully developed book, asking her which agency did send her and she said she's a freelance...

He said thank you for coming... Next!

To get regular, higher paying fashiongigs... paid jobs... gotta need an agency. You can hassle on your own, and some make a decent living... but... bottom line is... 70percent of the fashionmodels out there are freelance and have to work fulltime another job and do tons of little runway shows where they most of the time don't get paid... and have never a shot at the big shows with good pay.

That's at least how it's here in NYC... dunno... other fashionmarkets in this great country maybe much, much better suited for aspiring freelance models...

Udor Knows his stuff....

Hamza wrote:
The BOTTOM LINE reason why fasion designers, Art Directors, Photographers, etc... ONLY choose models with agencies is:

1)If the model has an agent on her ass, it's highly unlikely she will be a no show or late.
2)If the model has an agent, if she does flake, the client will bitch, the agency will dump the model.
3)Modeling agencies are like the Bushtapo, you do what they say or you're out.  With so much control an agancy has over their models, it makes no sense to hire someone without one.
4)Hiring an agency model it's almost a garantee the model will look like she did in her pics, knows how to act (supposed to), will be there on time, won't complain (shouldn't).

Are you going to buy your car from a dealer who relies on his rep, or a private party?

It's really that simple!

Yes .....It Is really that simple

W.G. Rowland wrote:
I wish I understood..  Honestly.. What elevates one face so much higher than another..

I mean she is very pretty.. And I highly respect some of the opinions of people in this thread..

I just honestly... I guess something is miswired in my brain..

I don't see what is so much more "it" here than elsewhere..

And I swear.. This isn't a knock.. I'm not trying to pull down the thread.  I just want to understand..  I hate not getting it.

I agree.  She is very pretty.  But I'm not seeing anything that SHE is doing that makes her head and shoulders above X pretty wanna be fashion model. 

But then again i find fashion for the most part boring because of the fact that 99.9999999 percent of it seems to be about being uninterested in what you're doing.

Gina McNeil wrote:

I love Daria. She's so beautiful. I love the campaign she did for Chanel.

she looks hot to me....

Hamza wrote:
The BOTTOM LINE reason why fasion designers, Art Directors, Photographers, etc... ONLY choose models with agencies is:

1)If the model has an agent on her ass, it's highly unlikely she will be a no show or late.
2)If the model has an agent, if she does flake, the client will bitch, the agency will dump the model.
3)Modeling agencies are like the Bushtapo, you do what they say or you're out.  With so much control an agancy has over their models, it makes no sense to hire someone without one.
4)Hiring an agency model it's almost a garantee the model will look like she did in her pics, knows how to act (supposed to), will be there on time, won't complain (shouldn't).

Are you going to buy your car from a dealer who relies on his rep, or a private party?

It's really that simple!

in addition to that, another major reason is that agencies are easy to use, known, efficient and reliable way to find models. they know the good agencies and can easily search for models quickly by going to the few or several known sources where they will find qualified models and with one or a few phone calls they can have dozens or more models show up for a casting just by telling the agencies what they're looking for. whereas trying to search for freelance models on the net would be incredibly time consuming and consist of searching through thousands of totally unsuitable candidates from endless random sites to find the occasional diamond in the rough. time is money