The Invisible Touch wrote:
This isn't High end retouching, this is blurring the skin to a really high degree and using filters to cover it with really bad results. I am so against videos like this as the only thing that creates between amateurs is confusion and bad habbits. Learn to do your own actions without using external panels.. what would you do if your client ask you to work on set with their equipment.. without your retouching panel... ?

Hey Invisible Retouch, some of us might appreciate this tutorial.  I do all my own retouching and i'm always looking for a different approach.  Don't jump on someone's hard work to create and share a tutorial just because you think your method is better.  Don't be an ass.

Martin Troy wrote:
Hey Invisible Retouch, some of us might appreciate this tutorial.  I do all my own retouching and i'm always looking for a different approach.  Don't jump on someone's hard work to create and share a tutorial just because you think your method is better.  Don't be an ass.

Martin, not being an ass as you called me, just trying to help, I do believe that most people that visit MM is due to the fact that they are willing to learn/improve, blurring the skin to that degree isn't a normal/good procedure in the real retouching world but that's up to you to take my advice, you carry on watching amateur videos and not progressing!!

Sometimes we don't like to hear what we do wrong but I will still persevere on pointing out what's not correct and this video isn't. I really appreciate people making videos for training purposes but really don't agree on teaching blur and amateur techniques as the only thing this creates is more confusion. Same goes with Frequency separation, people are obsessed with it and end up destroying the image when you can actually do a similar job cleaning skin with an empty layer by cloning/healing on normal/darken/lighten mode.

J

The Invisible Touch wrote:

Martin, not being an ass as you called me, just trying to help, I do believe that most people that visit MM is due to the fact that they are willing to learn/improve, blurring the skin to that degree isn't a normal/good procedure in the real retouching world but that's up to you to take my advice, you carry on watching amateur videos and not progressing!!

Sometimes we don't like to hear what we do wrong but I will still persevere on pointing out what's not correct and this video isn't. I really appreciate people making videos for training purposes but really don't agree on teaching blur and amateur techniques as the only thing this creates is more confusion. Same goes with Frequency separation, people are obsessed with it and end up destroying the image when you can actually do a similar job cleaning skin with an empty layer by cloning/healing on normal/darken/lighten mode.

J

I agree.

May I suggest that the OP posts in the critique forum to get more feedback on the technique and the results.

The Invisible Touch wrote:
This isn't High end retouching, this is blurring the skin to a really high degree and using filters to cover it with really bad results. I am so against videos like this as the only thing that creates between amateurs is confusion and bad habbits.

I agree 100% with this comment. What the OP shows is a cheap shortcut, not a serious approach. Shortcuts are great provided the end result is of an acceptable standard. It's worrying when the image chosen by the OP demonstrates such indiscriminate use of Frequency Separation. Unfortunately a lot of would-be retouchers will buy this.

StyleGuru90 wrote:
... I have taken it to an extreme for the demo…and its not right or wrong...

It's your choice of demo image that has sparked most of the criticism. By making that choice, you imply that it represents a quality of retouching which should be aspired to. This is the main reason for the criticisms (which, incidentally, you elicited in your original post).

StyleGuru90 wrote:
The whole idea is to get as close as possible without spending the hours.

No one is missing the point here, the idea behind retouching is not too make it fast is to make it look good. And I am not missing the point, it is very clear that your intentions aren't teaching nor share but more the opposite, your intention is to sell your retouching videos and your retouching panel, which I am not sure if this is allowed in this community. If you are going to sell information please make sure at least you know your stuff.

StyleGuru90 wrote:
I have taken it to an extreme for the demo…and its not right or wrong, some clients/photographers actually do like this look a lot, but at the same time, each effect can be realistically  dialed down with the opacity slider unlike standard frequency separation.

You said is not right or wrong, YES there is by you teaching the wrong approach to those who are willing to learn something correct.

Let me tell you all the things that you think are right and I think are really wrong in your video.

- Why are you cleaning on a stamp layer, when you can do it on an empty layer. Working on a stamp layer will increase the size of your psd big time when there is no need.

- How can you say that your approach of SF is better because it enhances texture when actually is doing the opposite.. Blurring it.

- By adding a BW layer as help layer for dodgen and burn, everytime you chagen a channel, you don't have any more a clear reprensentation of the true things to work on as you also changing luminosity.

- Everytime you paint on skin with colours set to normal you are ruining transitions and texture.

StyleGuru90 wrote:
So i have just created a video demonstrating my approach to skin retouching

No, you are just created a video to promote yourself with no interest in teaching.

StyleGuru90 wrote:
Be warned, there is a plug for the StyleMyPic Panel in the video, as it is an integral part of the workflow.

This is what you are selling.

StyleGuru90 wrote:
I really do think Photographers who retouch their images, and freelance retouchers could benefit from this workflow:

No possible, unless you want to loose all your clients.

StyleGuru90 wrote:
@Invisible Retouch: I work on clients/rental computers many times (if not the panel, I take the associated actions as all techniques are designed to work minus the panel...you just lose the fade shortcut mainly), and they are always impressed with the speed of the workflow, especially realtime on set retouching during shoots. In fact, I had one photographer tell me his past experience with one guy who was doing (I guess D&B) pixel level stuff for a long time, while his clients were impatient to see the final color graded look.

Those you are talking about are non professionals. As no client in the real world would like an image retouched like this, have you seen this kind of work in any professional magazine?

StyleGuru90 wrote:
Every tool has its place guys. I am proud of what we've created, and put my money where my mouth is.

Selling....

StyleGuru90 wrote:
@invisible retouch: Enough talking and pointing fingers.

Please feel free to retouch the 'before' cropped image attached above, and truthfully state how much time you take to do it.

I am glad you come to realised that you were just here for your panel and selfpromotion..

You don't seem to understand... it's not about time!! Its about quality work! Don't use shortcuts and plug ins mate if you are serious about retouching. Otherwise you are cool to go! :-)

The Invisible Touch wrote:
You don't seem to understand... it's not about time!! Its about quality work! Don't use shortcuts and plug ins mate if you are serious about retouching. Otherwise you are cool to go! :-)

Time is definitely as important as is quality, especially if you run a business.

If you are doing it for learning…or to satisfy your passion as an artist…great! But if none of your assignments are from Vanity Fair, Vogue etc. then you should recheck your workflow to justify the hours you put in.

That has been my goal, to find the right balance between time and quality.

And I'm serious.... I really do want to see what you do with the section of 'before' image and how much time you take to do it, not only for me, but for the new comers you are addressing to. Let the images talk. It's a friendly request for the sake of learning and understanding each others views!

StyleGuru90 wrote:
Time is definitely as important as is quality, especially if you run a business.

You clearly don't run a business or at least not a retouching one.. Time doesn't mean anything, satisfaction and professionalism and being up to the industry standards DOES. With that approach I can guarantee very little work.

StyleGuru90 wrote:
If you are doing it for learning…or to satisfy your passion as an artist…great!

I am doing it because is my passion but at the same time my job and I will always make sure I do the best i can at what I do, rather than have an approach like.. "I will spend less on the images as the client is less important"... good luck with that mentality my friend.

StyleGuru90 wrote:
But if none of your assignments are from Vanity Fair, Vogue etc. then you should recheck your workflow to justify the hours you put in.

Is not about the hours mate, is about doing it correctly and not rushing anything, the more you rush your images, the less quality they will have and you will never get to progress, is as simple as this. I will rather aim to work with the big ones as they pay better and so many times the work is minimum because they pay for your artistic eye more than your skin retouching/d&b/etc..

StyleGuru90 wrote:
That has been my goal, to find the right balance between time and quality.

No, with all my respects.. you don't fool me.. your goal is selling your panel/videos.

StyleGuru90 wrote:
And I'm serious.... I really do want to see what you do with the section of 'before' image and how much time you take to do it, not only for me, but for the new comers you are addressing to. Let the images talk. It's a friendly request for the sake of learning and understanding each others views!

If you like to visit my portfolio that's fine by me, that should give you an idea of my work, but we are not here to talk about me,  you are the one asking for feedback... so feedback you should get. If you are not prepare to receive it, you should consider next time not to post a video like this here as this is really creating confusion on people that are trying to learn and with "teachers" like you, the only thing they get is more confusion.

Advice again.. learn to retouch without panels/plugins

AKMac wrote:
The following quote which accompanies your video is interesting.....

"If you are in the business of retouching, Quality is a must have, its a prerequisite. It is time that defines the line between a Professional and an Amateur."

I don't think these statements stand up to much consideration. And, anyway, what's the big rush? Imaginary clients don't do deadlines!

I don't see any great harm in you selling this product via your own website, but a lot of people visit this forum because they want to learn good practice, and for that reason I don't think this sort of approach should be given an easy ride.

+10000

Cole Bettelyoun wrote:
I know you didn't ask me to give it a try but this took me 45mins.

this is the exact same image as the one in the OPs just cropped..

PJKRetouching wrote:

this is the exact same image as the one in the OPs just cropped..

It is the same image as in this post just my edit. Take a look at my after and his.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19492611

Cole Bettelyoun wrote:

It is the same image as in this post just my edit. Take a look at my after and his.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19492611

ok.. let me extrapolate.. its the same image after retouching, as in this image and the one cropped is from the one Retouching session, is all one.. this is a weird marketing technique

PJKRetouching wrote:

this is the exact same image as the one in the OPs just cropped..

It is not the same, but very similar. Only difference is that it took him 45 minutes, whereas I spent not more than 10 minutes in that particular section.

The Invisible Touch wrote:
This isn't High end retouching, this is blurring the skin to a really high degree and using filters to cover it with really bad results. I am so against videos like this as the only thing that creates between amateurs is confusion and bad habbits. Learn to do your own actions without using external panels.. what would you do if your client ask you to work on set with their equipment.. without your retouching panel... ?

StyleGuru90 wrote:
It is not the same, but very similar. Only difference is that it took him 45 minutes, whereas I spent not more than 10 minutes in that particular section.

ya I can tell you did... it looks filter
also I thought Cole Retouched it not you?

Cole Bettelyoun wrote:
tried again took longer this time.

Looks very nice Cole!

Now you can see a substantial quality difference between your image and the 10 minute method below:



Can you share how much time you took this time?