cisstudio wrote:
With all the escort threads, I was wondering if any photographers have ever put together any sort of rules/guidelines regarding the presence of non-photographing participants who accompany llamas to their photo shoots.

Such as...

If there is any disruptions from the accompany individual(s), they may be required to wait outside of the photographic area.

If at any time a chaperone interferes with a photo shoot, the photographer has the choice to end the session without providing any future services, and the all monetary amounts paid will be forfeited

There can be no photographic images/videos taken, including, but not limited to, the use of cell phones, cameras, etc., of your setup poses and/or sets.

If any items are damaged by the accompany individual(s), including intentionally or accidentally, the llama and/or the individual responsible for the damage, will be required to reimburse the photographer for the repair or replacement of such item(s).

etc., etc.  I think you get the point. 

Was just wondering, for those photographers who do allow chaperones (escorts) on set, if you have ever put together some sort of rules/guidelines to ensure the professionalism of the accompany individual(s). 

If you do not allow escorts, there is no need to state it.  We all get the point.  If, however, you are interested in leaving suggestions or thoughts, please feel free too.

Thank you!

My only questions are, how do you ENFORCE such rules without the risk of civil action (for repayment etc), liability, and physical violence, and if you know problems exist to the point that you need such guidelines why would you even BOTHER?
This isn't really a new question, BTW, it was adressed repeatedly in the now Pit-ted thread and has come up in the new one as well.

SLE Photography wrote:
My only questions are, how do you ENFORCE such rules without the risk of civil action (for repayment etc), liability, and physical violence, and if you know problems exist to the point that you need such guidelines why would you even BOTHER?
This isn't really a new question, BTW, it was adressed repeatedly in the now Pit-ted thread and has come up in the new one as well.

A basic enforceable contract that will be governed by that laws in which the contract has originated in.  By the way, I currently have a similar clause in my wedding contract regarding the enforcement of others taking images of my set up poses and it is generally always respected.  Also, most contracts are set up to help avoid any legal civil actions and enforcement would be determined by the residing judge or jury who over hears such case -- provided it has gone that far, which normally never happens.

cisstudio wrote:
With all the escort threads, I was wondering if any photographers have ever put together any sort of rules/guidelines regarding the presence of non-photographing participants who accompany llamas to their photo shoots.

Such as...

If there is any disruptions from the accompany individual(s), they may be required to wait outside of the photographic area.

If at any time a chaperone interferes with a photo shoot, the photographer has the choice to end the session without providing any future services, and all monetary amounts paid will be forfeited

There can be no photographic images/videos taken, including, but not limited to, the use of cell phones, cameras, etc., of your setup poses and/or sets.

If any items are damaged by the accompany individual(s), including intentionally or accidentally, the llama and/or the individual responsible for the damage, will be required to reimburse the photographer for the repair or replacement of such item(s).

etc., etc.  I think you get the point. 

Was just wondering, for those photographers who do allow chaperones (escorts) on set, if you have ever put together some sort of rules/guidelines to ensure the professionalism of the accompany individual(s). 

If you do not allow escorts, there is no need to state it.  We all get the point.  If, however, you are interested in leaving suggestions or thoughts, please feel free too.

Thank you!

Yes, I've posted before; it's called an escort release I have them sign prior to any shooting.

cisstudio wrote:
A basic enforceable contract that will be governed by that laws in which the contract has originated in.  By the way, I currently have a similar clause in my wedding contract regarding the enforcement of others taking images of my set up poses and it is generally always respected.  Also, most contracts are set up to help avoid any legal civil actions and enforcement would be determined by the residing judge or jury who over hears such case -- provided it has gone that far, which normally never happens.

Given that most llamas who want escorts are already leery of signing even standard releases (and in fact ask for things like "model releases" giving them control over your workflow) I can't see them agreeing to sign these, and depending on the wording

Craig Thomson wrote:

Yes, I've posted before; it's called an escort release I have them sign prior to any shooting.

Out of the thousands of postings in the numerous escort threads, could you possibly reference that particular thread?

That is why I decided to make a new thread for it.  I reviewed countless escort threads looking what others had posted in regards to this and turned up bits and pieces, but no one who had actually stated they set up an escort release (i must have missed your points).

Craig Thomson wrote:
Yes, I've posted before; it's called an escort release I have them sign prior to any shooting.

Craig, as mentioned in my comments just above this, have you had that document looked at by an attorney or challenged in court?
Does the escort have to sign it as well as the llama?
What do you do on a TFP shoot, just threaten not to give them the image?
If they're going to break the contract terms, isn't there a likelihood of their behavior descending in to violence if they don't get their way?
You've said before you WELCOME escorts.
If they're so great and you have so little issue with them, why do you NEED a document like this?

cisstudio wrote:

Out of the thousands of postings in the numerous escort threads, could you possibly reference that particular thread?

That is why I decided to make a new thread for it.  I reviewed countless escort threads looking what others had posted in regards to this and turned up bits and pieces, but no one who had actually stated they set up an escort release (i must have missed your points).

No I couldn't. Nor would I care to visit that thread again.

I know what works for me and it seems you have a very similar method which works for you as well.

On another productive note, I tired from editing the two shoots I had this weekend and am heading to bed.

Good night and best wishes,
Craig

ps, If you care to see the relase, email me and I'll send you a copy.

SLE Photography wrote:
Given that most llamas who want escorts are already leery of signing even standard releases (and in fact ask for things like "model releases" giving them control over your workflow) I can't see them agreeing to sign these, and depending on the wording

Craig Thomson wrote:

No I couldn't. Nor would I care to visit that thread again.

I know what works for me and it seems you have a very similar method which works for you as well.

On another productive note, I tired from editing the two shoots I had this weekend and am heading to bed.

Good night and best wishes,
Craig

ps, If you care to see the relase, email me and I'll send you a copy.

Thanks Craig!  I sent you a message on MM, look forward to seeing the release.

cisstudio wrote:
Great points, but what about a basic set of rules/guidelines for proper conduct while anyone is on a photographic set.  I am mainly refering to walk-ins into a commercial studio and felt that someone might have designed some thing for a escorts, since there are so many escort threads in the forums.  And, by the way, yes they would be required to read and sign that they have acknowledged that they have read the guidelines/rules. -- If they don't sign, you don't photograph them.  Simple as that.

My point being, as I said, most of the people who will have the issue of insisting on an escort will also be the people who'd throw a fit about signing such a thing, so you're still effectively excluding them.
If you meant like a commercial portrait studio or local photographer's studio, there's generally a waiting area for them or if they get disruptive they're just thrown out.

cisstudio wrote:
Thanks Craig!  I sent you a message on MM, look forward to seeing the release.

Have a lawyer in your area read carefully over anything like that.
Even if what Craig sends is something he had drawn up by someone with legal knowledge & not something he created himself, you're in a different state & different laws apply.
For instance, the use of the term "deposit" versus the term "retainer" could have a MAJOR effect on the legality of such a document in your area.

If you're worried about your walk-ins tho, I still say "little seating room, go stay there."

Maybe lock them in 

SLE Photography wrote:

My point being, as I said, most of the people who will have the issue of insisting on an escort will also be the people who'd throw a fit about signing such a thing, so you're still effectively excluding them.
If you meant like a commercial portrait studio or local photographer's studio, there's generally a waiting area for them or if they get disruptive they're just thrown out.

I do have a waiting room, but I have never really mind for individuals to be on set as well.  I have, however, never developed a set of rules/guidlines for this and wanted to see what others had completed or considered.  Also, as you have indicated, yes, there will always be individuals who are relecutant to sign any agreement.  Totally understandable and that is why I always complete all paper work up front.  I have had some individuals whom have chosen not to complete a shoot because of that and then end up contacting me back to reschedule.  Either way, it is no big deal to me.  You either sign my contract for work, whether it is paid or TFP/CD, or I don't photograph you.  That has basically always been my position.

SLE Photography wrote:

Have a lawyer in your area read carefully over anything like that.
Even if what Craig sends is something he had drawn up by someone with legal knowledge & not something he created himself, you're in a different state & different laws apply.
For instance, the use of the term "deposit" versus the term "retainer" could have a MAJOR effect on the legality of such a document in your area.

If you're worried about your walk-ins tho, I still say "little seating room, go stay there."

Maybe lock them in 

Lock them in!  That would be great! 

I always have my lawyer review my contracts and till this day, he has only made minimal suggestions, which have generally been other items he would include. Either way, it is a fraction of the cost of doing business, so totally worth the peace of mind.

A Twisted Mind wrote:
cisstudio,

I keep it real simple. Lock them out.

If a llama that I'm doing a shoot with arrives with an llama herder the day of [usually without telling me this in advance, as she knows I won't agree to his presence in the studio during the shoot], I simply inform him of when the shoot will be done so that he can come back and pick her up. Said llama herder doesn't even get past the threshold.

Some llama herders have been known to attempt to crash a photoshoot. The last time this took place, I had my roommate and another friend watch the llama herder while I took the llama and conducted the shoot. NEVER AGAIN.

It's kind of hard for the llama herder to insist on sitting in on the photoshoot if the photographer doesn't even let him get past the front door.

If he persists, it's trespassing, which leaves me with a range of options.

I reccomend woodchippers or carnivorous pigs.

SLE Photography wrote:

I reccomend woodchippers or carnivorous pigs.

c-c-carnivorous pigs??

Image K wrote:
c-c-carnivorous pigs??

Yes Clarice.

Curt Burgess wrote:
you needed your own thread for this?

why not post such a question on the escort thread?

there's escort stuff being discussed there.

The Pit-ed escort threaf has become useless.  Its too long and there is too much un-related stuff in it.  Last time I looked at ot there were three pages of people saying good night to each other.

Robert Rhea wrote:
The Pit-ed llama herder threaf has become useless.  Its too long and there is too much un-related stuff in it.  Last time I looked at ot there were three pages of people saying good night to each other.

There's a new moderated llama herder thread in this forum that's only a few days old

Craig Thomson wrote:
Yes, I've posted before; it's called an escort release I have them sign prior to any shooting.

And how do you enforce your release?  I'm genuinely curious.

Curt Burgess wrote:
you needed your own thread for this?

why not post such a question on the escort thread?

there's escort stuff being discussed there.

Is there another escort thread? Where?