Timothy Baker wrote:
How much do all of the photographers here on Model Mayhem charge a regular (never done a photo shoot) person to do a shoot?

However much they want. This thread has been done over and over. It varies depending on your skill, who you're photographing, what style you're shooting. What one photographer charges may be too low, or too high for you, because you are not the same photographer.

Kaitlin Lara wrote:
However much they want. This thread has been done over and over. It varies depending on your skill, who you're photographing, what style you're shooting. What one photographer charges may be too low, or too high for you, because you are not the same photographer.

Not only has this thread been done over and over, this photographer has done this thread before, over and over. And as we told you before, Timothy, it all depends. As I also told you before, I would practice some more by paying/doing TFP with experienced models if I were you, as I personally still don't think your portfolio is up to snuff to be charging for portfolio development. (Though your work is improving - I like this shot. Still think some of the Photoshop work is really cheezy, though.)

Timothy Baker wrote:
What's everyones take on this?!?!?!------

Your post contained four major misconceptions and misstatements of fact.  Given that, my take is that you don't understand when and why paid shoots are appropriate, or what the criteria are for being paid - on either side of the lens.

Fix that first, then worry about rates.

Bob Randall Photography wrote:
I just looked at your portfolio and it made me think of a question I have never asked any of the "Photographers" that pose all these questions about what models should pay them.

What makes you think you should be charging anything. I have years of experience and ad industry credits to my name and I still feel a need to practice my craft with as many models as will have me. I don't have anywhere near the experience that some of the glamour shooters here at MM have and I would feel utter shame in asking a model to pay me to help build his/her portfolio. So where does all this BS come from about rates for building portfolios. I would understand if Jerry Avenaim were asking, I'll never understand why you are.

I felt that slap on the other side of the country..

Studio Spike wrote:
supply and demand and all that economic theory kinda hooey.  You're in NY and wanting a model to pay you.  I'm in NY and am thrilled if a model doesn't charge me.

Thank you! We needed that.

Bob Randall Photography wrote:
I just looked at your portfolio and it made me think of a question I have never asked any of the "Photographers" that pose all these questions about what models should pay them.

What makes you think you should be charging anything. I have years of experience and ad industry credits to my name and I still feel a need to practice my craft with as many models as will have me. I don't have anywhere near the experience that some of the glamour shooters here at MM have and I would feel utter shame in asking a model to pay me to help build his/her portfolio. So where does all this BS come from about rates for building portfolios. I would understand if Jerry Avenaim were asking, I'll never understand why you are.

Hee hee hee - the less diplomatic version of what I was trying to say. Why is it that it's frequently the least talented people who ask the most questions about when and how much they can charge people?
OP, you are in New York, competing with some of the most well-known and talented photographers in the world.
Want to make money on photography? Shoot weddings.

Catriona wrote:
(Though your work is improving - I like this shot. Still think some of the Photoshop work is really cheezy, though.)

What was it about this shot that tweaked your interest. Was it the lines on the skin just under the chin made from previous wardrobe or maybe the blotchiness on her forehead or wait, I know, that ever popular plastic barbie doll cheek bone look.

I'm headed for the oven now. It's electric, but it will make me feel like I'm at least doing something to stop the madness.

Bob Randall Photography wrote:
What was it about this shot that tweaked your interest. Was it the lines on the skin just under the chin made from previous wardrobe or maybe the blotchiness on her forehead or wait, I know, that ever popular plastic barbie doll cheek bone look.

I'm headed for the oven now. It's electric, but it will make me feel like I'm at least doing something to stop the madness.

"Like" compared to the rest, you - you have to admit that it looks more professional than, say, the shot of the girl stepping over a bridge with him Photoshopped in at the bottom. Or all the ones with the same girl put in multiple times, or the ones with half a dozen PS filters put on them, or...
At least that one looks like something a model MIGHT want to put in her portfolio, rather than a simple exercise in digital goofery.

[edit] Speaking of, that's another question - OP, do the models you work with ASK you to do all this stuff to their pictures? Do you really think a model with professional aspirations wants to put pictures of herself manipulated to be sitting on a parking meter in her portfolio? If not, what makes you think a model would want to pay for this? And if so, where are you finding these girls?

Catriona wrote:
"Like" compared to the rest, you - you have to admit that it looks more professional than, say, the shot of the girl stepping over a bridge with him Photoshopped in at the bottom. Or all the ones with the same girl put in multiple times, or the ones with half a dozen PS filters put on them, or...
At least that one looks like something a model MIGHT want to put in her portfolio, rather than a simple exercise in digital goofery.

[edit] Speaking of, that's another question - OP, do the models you work with ASK you to do all this stuff to their pictures? Do you really think a model with professional aspirations wants to put pictures of herself manipulated to be sitting on a parking meter in her portfolio? If not, what makes you think a model would want to pay for this? And if so, where are you finding these girls?

I wasn't pointing out your lack of taste. I was pointing out the lack of quality in the picture and using you as a beard. Sorry if I hid that too well. Your edit question is particularly great. Also, in fairness to the OP, I wouldn't be pointing out any of this stuff if he had asked a more reasonable question. This is simply my on line pet peeve. (apparently one of many)

Timothy Baker wrote:
All I meant by this post is that if there is a regular person that's not even a model or models, the shoot should not be free?  If I'm not going to use it for my portfolio, why should the shoot be free?   You have to charge the client, they expect you to!

Don't get all mad at me on here now! lol

If you shoot everything and anything for free, how do you expect me to live? 
I need money in order to run a company! lol

Thanks all---

TB

The answer is Get a job.

Timothy Baker wrote:
All I meant by this post is that if there is a regular person that's not even a model or models, the shoot should not be free?

Send her to the mall!   $50 will make her GWA dreams come true.

Bob Randall Photography wrote:
The answer is Get a job.

Ouch!

jon mmmayhem wrote:

LMAO!!!!! too funny!!!!

Project Photography wrote:
Part of me feels bad for you because you really got torn a new *&^%$#,  but c'mon you should've known better, right?

One would think so because this is at leaset the 2nd time he has posted this question...

Experimental Photoworks wrote:

One would think so because this is at leaset the 2nd time he has posted this question...

yeah I'm guessing he didn't get the answer he was looking for the first time so he thought maybe he would PS some more pics and try again....  stay tuned cause we may see this post again..

Timothy Baker wrote:
All I meant by this post is that if there is a regular person that's not even a model or models, the shoot should not be free?

When shot by a regular person who is not even a photographer or photographers, yes.

Remember, qualifications are relative. There is a wide range of qualifications (skill, beauty, etc.) between a "regular person" and a "supermodel," but there is just as wide a range between a "camera owner" and a "master photographer."

I need money in order to run a company!

No, you need a business plan. Your "market" is 90% penniless, college-age people who can likely find a dozen photographers who will do better work on a TFCD basis.

That's not directed at your portfolio specifically (since you did not ask for a critique)--there's *always* a better photographer offering a freebie in these genres of photography, and that's the way it goes.

Sorry, but the only time models pay for shoots is when (a) they need content to sell (pay site, etc.), (b) they want to step up their portfolio and can't find TFCD/TFP offers with qualified photographers, or (c) someone dupes them into it and promises them it will get them into an agency, into a magazine, etc.

Timothy Baker wrote:
How much do all of the photographers here on Model Mayhem charge a regular (never done a photo shoot) person to do a shoot?
[...]
What's everyones take on this?!?!?!------

Tim Baker
Photographer
Long Island, NY

Read the other threads you started on this topic. There are some excellent answers--and questions--in them.

Paid Assignments Only - But you have no experience
How much Photog Charge Models - No Experienced?

Images by Yancy wrote:
You know, excuse me if the OP has some kind of history of asking these types of questions but, I gotta say, some of you people are so friggin' harsh!

See above.

Bob Randall Photography wrote:
What makes you think you should be charging anything. I have years of experience and ad industry credits to my name and I still feel a need to practice my craft with as many models as will have me. I don't have anywhere near the experience that some of the glamour shooters here at MM have and I would feel utter shame in asking a model to pay me..

That's funny. I've always felt just what you said but kind of kept it to myself whenever I see these kind of threads. It's never ever crossed my mind to charge a model for anything. It's an honor working with a good one. I need so much practice and I'm not on a level I can start charging people. Even if I was as good as some of the people on this site, I probably wouldn't charge anyway because I just enjoy it too much and then it would become more of a job and I'd have to hire an accountant, secretary, complaints dept.. blah blah. I pretty much will work with as "many models as will have me." Photography is so much fun that I don't care if I ever make a living from it, or if anyone likes it but me. If the OP is into photography to pay his bills, then he should pick another line of work or maybe do the wedding and bar mitvah scene. I don't think you truly love photography if you're already so concerned about rates and all.

Timothy Baker wrote:
......If you shoot everything and anything for free, how do you expect me to live? 
I need money in order to run a company! lol

You're running a photography company?  Ok.  Have you done a local market survey?  That would be much more valuable than asking here. Basically, you charge what you can get. That was my advice the first time you asked.

Of course, I really like OGR's response the first time you asked this question:

oldguysrule wrote:
I charge experienced/non-experienced at the same rate.

I do not TFP [TFP should never be refered to as working for free. it is a barter arrangement where there is supposed to be value, otherwise why do it?] as I've never found the need. I cannot see the logic of experienced photographers shooting TFP with inexperienced models. Makes no sense to me, but thats me.

I will now and then shoot free tests for an exceptional new face, I'm curious, bored, for a friend, or a well-established model I've worked with on campaigns, or the odd editorial project.

Gary's reply on your second thread on this topic probably sums up my thinking...

Gary Davis wrote:

Star wrote:
as much as they can

No,  twice as much as you think you dare ask, then double it again..

Richard Tallent wrote:
No, you need a business plan. Your "market" is 90% penniless, college-age people who can likely find a dozen photographers who will do better work on a TFCD basis.

That's not directed at your portfolio specifically (since you did not ask for a critique)--there's *always* a better photographer offering a freebie in these genres of photography, and that's the way it goes.

Sorry, but the only time models pay for shoots is when (a) they need content to sell (pay site, etc.), (b) they want to step up their portfolio and can't find TFCD/TFP offers with qualified photographers, or (c) someone dupes them into it and promises them it will get them into an agency, into a magazine, etc.

Quoting this because I think that this very salient point should be reiterated in every thread about charging models.

Dear OP (and anyone else asking similar questions): Models almost never have money. The vast majority of us simply do not have hundreds of dollars to spare for pretty pictures, period. If you want people with little or no money to spend to consider you worth saving up for, you have to be really, really good - much better than the dozens of other photographers in your area who will be happy to do TFP or even pay the models. Otherwise, if you're determined to make money from photography, try hitting up people who have more money and less of an idea of what makes a good or usable photo - weddings, senior portraits, etc. Unless you're famous and really fucking good, trying to make any kind of a living off models is a business model guaranteed to fail. Sorry if you have a hard time accepting that reality (which you clearly do, since you keep asking).

[edit] Oh, and: You keep asking, over and over and over, how much you should charge models with no experience, since they "can't expect to get a shoot for free" (although, actually, yes they can - pretty much every model I know, myself included, was bombarded with TFP offers the minute they signed up on this or any other modeling site, regardless of experience). Has it occured to you that maybe there's a reason why the "models" who want to work with you seem to overwhelmingly have no experience? Just a thought.