Dick Pick wrote:
How to tell the real from the posers? A girl who wants to llama asked me how she could tell when offers are from real photographers. Told her to search with Yahoo or whatever and she would find credits for real published fotogs.

I looked myself and found searching for Avedon shows credits but many of those here who I know are real like Christian Behr, Eric Striffler, Shiree, Brian Nelson all come up with only internet clubs and their own blogs just like the amatures here. So how should she tell when someone promises her a cover?

The irony of this is delicious.

www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=93794

W.G. Rowland wrote:
My, unprofessional, understanding is that a professional photographer would not be walking up to an unknown, and potential risk for what is a professional venture with capital and reputation riding on it, and offer them the cover of anything..

For pro jobs.. Pros use pros.. And get them from agencies..

It depends what you call a pro photographer.  If you mean people shooting sexy girls in studio for cash, yes you're right.  But artists rarely use llamas from agencies for 3 main reasons: these llamas has been seen a little too much, many makes unoriginal poses everyone does, and artists are poor

Dick Pick wrote:
So how should she tell when someone promises her a cover?

I've worked in publishing and it's not the photographer who can promise a cover.

Michael Newbern wrote:
I'm about to throw a wrench in what everyone here has said.  Hold on tight, here's an angle no one has covered.

Some photographers run their own magazines, like me.  I also have a couple of friends who do as well.  Granted mine is an e-zine (http://www.brainbucketmagazine.com), but I pay and the site is wildly popular in its niche (Alexa rank of ~70k). 

I pay the llamas $200 for two hours and $100 for each hour after that.  I decide who goes on the cover, who I shoot, and who I publish.

So, if I promise you a cover, you'll get at least one for sure!

Okay, maybe that's an exception (didn't read your post before I posted).

Rossi Photography wrote:
Okay, maybe that's an exception (didn't read your post before I posted).

No worries.  But yes, I would say that this is the one exception to the rule.  If the photographer is the owner/editor or photo editor for the mag and promises a cover then I would say that a cover can be expected.

Mike

Daguerre wrote:
So many times I've seen huge commercial photographers use friends and relatives in commercial and portfolio ventures.  James B. Wood is an example of that.  He's known for his huge sets and Wells Fargo Bank campaigns.

And his students. You always ran the risk of getting cast... (A lot of his stuff is about "real people," though, not models.)

Shadowscape Studio wrote:
Except for art, hobby, and amatures you will never get an offer from a photographer.  ALL PROFESSIONAL WORK will come from an agancy.  Agencies hire models.  Agencies hire photographers.  Then they work together.  The only true professional photographer that hires models are art photographers that work on getting their images in galleries and do not work for customers.

This is not so true anymore. I've shot quite a few look books and small ads in the last couple of years (small budget obviously) where the clients book models from place like craigs list and omp.  These are jobs people probably would have used a friend for before- basically they have maybe 5 grand total to produce the book and figure they are better off with a pro photographer and amateur models.

In the case of national clients what you say is mostly true, thought many catalog houses have in house ADs so they don't go through an ad agency to find photographers.

- to the OP, promising a cover is usually hard to do unless you are a very established shooter or the in house shooter for a particular mag.

A friend of mine is a very good photographer and the fashion editor for a regional magazine. She very often shoots the covers herself and can basically promise a cover to a girl.

Dick Pick wrote:
So how should she tell when someone promises her a cover?

Cover of what? The back of a milk carton?

Daniel Norton wrote:
These are jobs people probably would have used a friend for before- basically they have maybe 5 grand total to produce the book and figure they are better off with a pro photographer and amateur models.

I don't question what you said, Daniel, and I believe it to be true.  But it's always seemed a little silly to me, since textbooks generally pay editorial rates anyway.  There isn't a lot of money to be saved from them.

Michael Newbern wrote:
No worries.  But yes, I would say that this is the one exception to the rule.  If the photographer is the owner/editor or photo editor for the mag and promises a cover then I would say that a cover can be expected.

Unfortunately, that's optimistic.

I know of one fairly well-known magazine published in NYC where the publisher is a photographer (although not a very good one) and uses a casting couch approach to models he doesn't get from major agencies.  And another fashion industry mag that was used by a predator agent and client.  Both made lots of promises.  Some of the promises even came true.

TXPhotog wrote:

I don't question what you said, Daniel, and I believe it to be true.  But it's always seemed a little silly to me, since textbooks generally pay editorial rates anyway.  There isn't a lot of money to be saved from them.

Agreed. Most of the time with these small designers, they have already done the leg work and got a model before they even come to me. Sometimes (when I tell them about using agency models) they do that for the next collection, but just as often they like the first girl(s) and just use them again. Also, some give the girls samples instead of cash and that kind of deal.