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What is typical for TFP or TFCD?
Hello everyone, Please excuse this naive question, but I'm new to MM, and the posts I've been reading make me wonder? What is a typical number of images provided in a TFP/TFCD shoot? What resolution should they be? Is it proper etiquette to place your copyright logo on the images? Someone I know and trust in this industry (with lots of experience) suggested that 3 -5 images is standard for TFP, but another post here suggests the number is closer to 10. Thanks, Richard Night Owl Photography Nov 26 06 12:15 am Link It is whatever you and the model decide. That is the trade part. I give 3 to 5 touched up prints for each hour of CAMERA time. thats it. Nov 26 06 12:17 am Link This varies from photographer to photographer and from shoot to shoot. The important thing is communication. It's best to decide exactly how many images are going to be available to the model, in what format and in what time-frame, before or as soon after the shoot as possible. Nov 26 06 12:19 am Link As a model, I've had one TFCD experience where I got ALL the RAW pictures...and none of the edited ones, with permission to edit.. I had another experience where I got to choose between 5 and 10 preselected pictures, for the photographer to edit. These did not include a copyright watermark. On my latest TFCD shoot, I'll be getting a CD of the RAW images, and be allowed to edit them, as well as any images that the photographer edits and sends to me (though I do not know how many that will be). It's different for every shoot. Nov 26 06 12:20 am Link I typically touch up between 15 to 20 images from each TFP/CD photo shoot. However, I have been know to touch up as many as 50 images if I am really please with the results from the shoot. I also give the model a CD or DVD of all the images from the TFP/CD photo shoot as we both have copyrights to images as per our agreement. Nov 26 06 12:23 am Link Thanks everyone. I just discovered the link/post with all the previous TFP/TFCD questions answered. Please forgive me for not looking for that before posting this. Your answers are helpful though. Richard Nov 26 06 12:24 am Link LucisPtera wrote: i like to see them all Nov 26 06 12:27 am Link I give the model proofs of all the shots she wants proofs of. From these, she selects 10, which I post-process and place watermarks on. These are at the camera resolution of 3008 x 2000. I also provide reduced versions of each of her 10 choices at 750 x 500 with watermarks for posting. Nov 26 06 12:39 am Link It's completely random! I have received from various photographers: 5-10 signed prints A full CD of unedited RAW shots, with permission to edit* A full CD of unedited full-size jpgs, no permission to edit** A CD of 10-30 edited high-resolution images A CD of 10-30 unedited websize images 10-20 edited websize images on an online gallery 50 e-mailed, unedited websize images, and then a few rolls of negatives to process, scan, and send back A couple of Polaroid positives 5 e-mailed, unedited websize images 1 unedited websize image posted in the photographer's Livejournal Nothing at all (* I am a full-time professional colour-corrector and photo retoucher and made this known to both photographers who did this, though; this is probably not the case for most photographers.) (** But usually edited by me for very minor issues like skin problems and bad colour, because I'm not willing to waste an entire shoot because the photographer didn't feel like Photoshopping. See above.) My personal favourite is option #4 - good photos that I can be proud to show to people and print out for my mom without having to mess with them myself. Though #1 is great when they're really nice quality prints - even though he paid me for the shoot, Ray Bidegain also gave me nine gorgeous, hand-printed platinum prints (the kind he sells to collectors for $100-$300 each...) from our first session, and I'm happier with those than I would be with any CD. Nov 26 06 12:48 am Link My usual offer to models is: Minimum of 12 fully edited pictures from the shoot, [usually nearer to 40, has been 70] in web size, copyrighted. Most of the models I shoot want images they can post as soon as possible, without the need for photoshopping themselves. Usually delivered in 7 working days. Nov 26 06 01:00 am Link My own "typical" TFCD shoot: The model chooses from quickly-adjusted online set of proofs, generally about 1/3rd of the original exposures. She can choose up to three photos for each hour of camera time. My retouching averages 20 minutes per shot, so this means a 1:1 investment in Photoshop time--the best I can offer since TFCD is done in my free time. I mail a CD, no actual prints. The CD includes both print-friendly format without logo (12.8MP less 9x12 crop) and web-friendly format with logo (800x600, max 250KB). My contract (it's not a release, but includes one) permits promotional/personal use for the model, and gives her written permission to makes prints. She agrees not to retouch the images, post non-logo photos online, sell the images, or use them on pay sites. I also, quite purposefully, put some limits on my (non-existent at this point) stock/commercial use that models are most worried about (advertising of pharmaceuticals, alcohol, tobacco, dating/escort services, porn, etc.). Nov 26 06 01:01 am Link Cliff W Estes wrote: When you say "proofs", are those just thumbnail sized images of what she chooses? Nov 26 06 01:02 am Link Night Owl Photography wrote: This is definitely the case for, say, wedding or senior portrait photographers; the ones I encounter in my work typically make as much as or substantially more on print sales than they do on sitting fees. But if it's a TFP shoot, is the model really your "client"? I personally would be pretty upset if I waived my fee and put my hard work into a shoot, only to be told afterwards that I could only have a full-sized image if I paid for it. The whole point of TFP is that it's of at least somewhat equal benefit to the model and photographer. If you're getting full-sized images of her for free, but she can only have small images for her online portfolio unless she pays you, is that equal? Nov 26 06 01:29 am Link I personally like 1-2 images per outfit enhanced. Or 5-6 images per shoot. I prefer to choose the images I get enhanced,too,if possible. Nov 26 06 02:28 am Link There is a List of Lists at the top of this forum. There are hundreds of TFP/TFCD threads already.  Nov 26 06 02:34 am Link Once you get outside internet work you will never get permission to edit images from a photographer. If you are getting that permission, make sure it is in writing, then smile at the foolishness of the inexperienced photographer. Nov 26 06 02:46 am Link As i said I HAVE BEEN GIVEN PERMISSION YOU DONT EVEN HAVE TO HAVE YOUR NAME ON THE WORK IF ITS NOT A SHOT YOU LIKED BUT THEY DID AND REMEMBER THEY MAY LIKE THE MODEL and they may not! Nov 26 06 03:27 am Link The best thing to keep in mind is that whatever you choose to give the model is payment for her time. Keeping that in mind will ensure that the model and you walk away happy. So what is her time worth? What are your images worth? Be conscious of how the images will affect her. Will they benefit her portfolio? How much will they benefit her portfolio? I have been given everything from 15 to 20 8x10 prints plus the web sized images from a shoot (still shoot regulagly with him, I LOVE getting the prints!), 8 to 10 retouched web sized images, a raw CD, etc etc etc. The options vary only as much as there are different photographers out there. It might be worth a look back through the history of the TFP threads. You'll find many many horror stories about photographers that allowed models to choose the images they wished to have photoshopped only to have the model choose terrible images, you'll find stories about photographers that have given the model the entire CD and the model chose "bad" images to post, and so on. Read through those and be aware of some of the possible negative outcomes of the situation and prepare yourself for them. It may give you some things to be aware of that you might want to include in writing for your release, or at least clearly outlined in an email before hand so that she can't come back and say "well you didn't tell me that." Communication is the best possible thing you can do for yourself. Clearly outline what you are willing to do, and how it will be done, and how quickly. You wouldn't want to see another model posting about not recieving her TFP images only to realize that you shot with her and suspect that she's probably talking about you. Best of luck!! Nov 26 06 09:18 am Link What is typical for TFP or TFCD? Seems to me that it is typical that the photographer & the model don't agree on terms before the sitting. Thus, expectations don't match, and problems can ensue. Agreements vary widely, on many levels: >>> Some photographers want to give only a small number of edited images. >>> Some models want a RAW copy of every images. >>> Some photographers put their logos on every image. >>> Some models don't want logos on the images. >>> Some photographers provide small (web portfolio sized) images. >>> Some models want large (8x10 print sized) images. >>> Some photographers want restrictions on how the model will use the images. >>> Some models don't want restrictions. >>> Some photographers don't want models or others to edit their images. >>> Some models want to be able to edit the images. >>> Some photographers can take months before they provide the images. >>> Some models want to walk out of the sitting with the images. My answer: everything is negotiable, but to be professional, you will need to document your agreement in writing, and you are best served to cover all the details. Nov 26 06 12:45 pm Link Personally, if I am shooting TFCD I give all the photos edited that came out well, I prefer not to have bad images floating around to give bad work to my name. I am also extremelly happy to provide prints to TFCD clients (though it is easy for me because I work in a photo lab). For TFP only my general rule is 8 prints per hour worked, but I am very glad to go either way on the number depending on the needs and requests of the model. Be loose and go with what you can do and what the model wants. Make each deal individual and dont be afraid to compromise. And also be fast! Get the images to the models asap. This is a good way to get a good name in the field, build up some rep and go a long way with your art. Nov 26 06 10:19 pm Link lll wrote: if we all use that, there would be no topic to talk about and i'll never get my 1000 posts. ;D Nov 27 06 05:15 am Link i give out 3 and only 3 touched prints, anything else would be uncivilized. Nov 27 06 05:16 am Link For TFCD, I give a CD-R of all the halfway decent images from the shoot. Having never done actual TFP, I'm not sure how many prints I would give. Nov 27 06 03:37 pm Link TFP package includes: 10 web sized 800 X 533, water marked, fully edited images 1, 9 x 12 photographic print Models, MUAâs, Stylists must: show up on time, bring own clothing, sign a full release. Nov 27 06 03:45 pm Link Experimental Photoworks wrote: Just curious--why do you use a 4:5 (8x10) aspect for the print but deliver the web versions in a 2:3 (4x6) format? Seems like more trouble to crop twice if you're doing most of your work at print resolution... Nov 28 06 01:36 am Link |
