TejS26 wrote:
Hi there

This might have been done to death on here, but I'm pretty new to MM-joined last month and I can't help but feel gutted that people who I pm/message about possible photoshoots read the message and don't even bother replying. Most of them have the same experience as me and imo should have at least the decency to give a reply back.


thanks

Tejas

Tejas

Are you offering to pay them with money?

If you are offering TF then many models on MM will look to see if what they get from a TF shoot will benefit them. Some, as you have found, will not bother replying - and that, to some on MM, is taken as a 'no I don't want to work with you.'.

TejS26 wrote:
Hi there

This might have been done to death on here, but I'm pretty new to MM-joined last month and I can't help but feel gutted that people who I pm/message about possible photoshoots read the message and don't even bother replying. Most of them have the same experience as me and imo should have at least the decency to give a reply back.


thanks

Tejas

It sounds as if there are two, possibly three, potential issues for you:

1. The level of experience/competency demonstrated by your current portfolio might not be quite what you think it is - I'd suggest you ask for critique here in order to explore that aspect:

https://www.modelmayhem.com/t.php?forum_id=8

2. There's a possibility that the messages you're sending out might not be couched in the best way. Generally short and to the point works for me. Overly personal content about you or the model is probably best avoided.

3. There is no compulsion upon people to reply - when you get dozens of similar messages on a regular basis replying to everyone can become tedious and time-consuming. Also, experienced people might be mildly offended if someone asks for TF yet they demonstrate little or no experience themselves.

Hope that helps a little.

Drew Smith Photography wrote:

Tejas

Are you offering to pay them with money?

If you are offering TF then many models on MM will look to see if what they get from a TF shoot will benefit them. Some, as you have found, will not bother replying - and that, to some on MM, is taken as a 'no I don't want to work with you.'.

This ^^

TejS26 wrote:
Thanks for the advice everyone!

Yeah that's what I was thinking-that the no replies are the replies and just the way things are. I'll definitely take these thoughts into consideration!

at first a difficult concept to grasp, welcome to the Mayhem

I Y Q Too wrote:
It is called common curiosity ...

LOL

Your Profile wrote:
I am very easy to get on with and can tailor prices to customer needs if be. I am very easy to get on with

Are you asking to be paid?

Mark Salo wrote:

Are you asking to be paid?

If someone wanted to work together and contacted me first and offered me a price, I can try and work around that rate.

Fifty One Imaging wrote:

at first a difficult concept to grasp, welcome to the Mayhem

I'd agree strange but when I'm more experienced on here I'll be well used to it.

TejS26 wrote:
If someone wanted to work together and contacted me first and offered me a price, I can try and work around that rate.

I think you may be labouring under a misapprehension here.

Almost NO photographers here get paid by models. Very very VERY few indeed. This site is primarily aimed at models and the photographers who pay THEM!

You would probably have better luck with your attempts to find models if you removed any mention of being paid BY them from your profile. That's going to be a massive turnoff. In fact, most will probably expect YOU to pay, not the other way around!

Most models here will simply click away from your profile the second they see any mention of YOU getting paid. Models, by and large, don't need to pay photographers, especially on a site like this where there are always 100 guys willing to shoot any pretty young thing for free, or even to pay them!



Just my $0.02 etc. etc.

Another Italian Guy wrote:

I think you may be labouring under a misapprehension here.

Almost NO photographers here get paid by models. Very very VERY few indeed. This site is primarily aimed at models and the photographers who pay THEM!

You would probably have better luck with your attempts to find models if you removed any mention of being paid BY them from your profile. That's going to be a massive turnoff. In fact, most will probably expect YOU to pay, not the other way around!

Most models here will simply click away from your profile the second they see any mention of YOU getting paid. Models, by and large, don't need to pay photographers, especially on a site like this where there are always 100 guys willing to shoot any pretty young thing for free, or even to pay them!



Just my $0.02 etc. etc.

+1

J Millman Photography wrote:
Some good points raised here...
Unfortunately, it's true, nobody's under any obligation to reply to a message at all....that doesn't make it ok, or acceptable in my opinion though, I just think it's rude.
But that's a reflection of today's society (again, unfortunately).
You will just have to get used to it here, it almost seems to be the 'norm', don't let it put you off, press on, someone will eventually respond, even if only to thank you but decline, there are some good people on here. 8)

I have to also point out that polite declines in today's society can also be met with a,torrent of abuse.
Whether it's declining an approach for a date at a bar, or declining an offer of work, or declining a job applicant (you pray they are not going to ask for feedback).

People can't take being turned down and can get quite abusive. I talk to other models and I am far from the only one to experience abuse after declining a tf offer. So while I always reply, I can understand why some models just blank.

I also echo what Stefano has said

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:

Models, photographers, MUA's - anyone can get quite abusive if you turn them down. Sometimes I'm ok dealing with it, other days (and sometimes after reading a profile and getting that feeling that they get bat-shit insane if something doesn't go their way) I'll just ignore a message and avoid the headache.

There's only so much, "Your work is complete shit, I don't know why I even bother - I was just trying to be nice" that I can deal with.

Emphasis on the "Mayhem".

Billy Lomnychuk wrote:
I like the ones that "friend request" ya, and then STILL won't reply to a message.

I guess the models with the most friends means something??  LOL

sadly true. i see models on here playing "myspace" by adding as many people as possible. I only add people i intend on working with in the future. if people request me, i accept. but as far as ME sending friend requests, it's not about numbers. I even had a couple photographers fr me and when i messaged them they didn't actually want to work with me, or they didn't reply. strange stuff.

Blimey Studios wrote:
...another little tip....

...on anyone's' profile page, look to see when they last logged in. If they haven't logged in within a couple of weeks, chances are they're not too serious anyway...

Yeah definitely that's true

Kirst wrote:

sadly true. i see models on here playing "myspace" by adding as many people as possible. I only add people i intend on working with in the future. if people request me, i accept. but as far as ME sending friend requests, it's not about numbers. I even had a couple photographers fr me and when i messaged them they didn't actually want to work with me, or they didn't reply. strange stuff.

That's not very good but idk. I was approached by a model looking for work and I gave back an adequate reply but I was just ignored so I just thought that was weird.

Billy Lomnychuk wrote:
I like the ones that "friend request" ya, and then STILL won't reply to a message.

I guess the models with the most friends means something??  LOL

Almost as if they're building up their friend list and competing with people to see who's is the largest but not caring about who they've added or what they can offer

Blimey Studios wrote:
...another little tip....

...on anyone's' profile page, look to see when they last logged in. If they haven't logged in within a couple of weeks, chances are they're not too serious anyway...

Or they are very serious and get most of their work in the real world. Less than 20% of mine has come from MM so can understand people nor bothering and losing interest but that doesn't mean they arent serious. They just may get work elsewhere.

TejS26 wrote:
This might have been done to death on here, but I'm pretty new to MM-joined last month and I can't help but feel gutted that people who I pm/message about possible photoshoots read the message and don't even bother replying. Most of them have the same experience as me and imo should have at least the decency to give a reply back. thanks

Tejas

I've found that there are two things that will make a model respond to a photographer's messages.

1) An offer to be paid for a shoot.
2) A totally kick ass portfolio of which a model would dream to be a part.

Also, looking at your port, I can't help but think the photos was taken by a 12th former playing around with his school chums.

TejS26 wrote:

Almost as if they're building up their friend list and competing with people to see who's is the largest but not caring about who they've added or what they can offer

Concentrate less on the flaky friend-collectors and more on what you're doing (and offering) models in general to work with you.

Since you were suggesting that models pay you, I'm not surprised you haven't heard a peep back. I was on MM for a full year (almost to the day) before I got a shoot through MM, and I wasn't asking for pay.

Can't say more, as that would constitute an unsolicited critique.

Francisco Castro wrote:

I've found that there are two things that will make a model respond to a photographer's messages.

1) An offer to be paid for a shoot.
2) A totally kick ass portfolio of which a model would dream to be a part.

Also, looking at your port, I can't help but think the photos was taken by a 12th former playing around with his school chums.

I understand where you are coming from and you raise some good points. These weren't very professional models though and I don't appreciate the negative vibe about my port-okay it isn't the best out there but in the coming months it will probably be better. ..

Revel Photo wrote:
It seems this is a huge issue, and everyone has their opinions, but being rude has no excuse. Other than blatant abusive language used in the initial message, every one deserves a reply.

TejS26 wrote:
These weren't very professional models though and I don't appreciate the negative vibe about my port-okay it isn't the best out there but in the coming months it will probably be better. ..

ontherocks wrote:
the guys commenting on your portfolio are out-of-line and most likely breaking site rules. they deserve some time in the brig IMHO. what they could say is "post in critique forum if you want some advice from me" critiques aren't allowed outside of the critique forum although of course not everyone follows the rules (or even knows them).

anyway, don't let them bother you. we're all at different levels here and each of us has different taste. what matters is making yourself happy although if it that includes booking models then of course what you have in your portfolio might be relevant to that (to catch a certain type of fish you have to put out a certain kind of bait). and to some extent you might have to work at it. contact twenty models to get one response. or look off of mayhem (some of the ladies on mayhem aren't that serious or want to get paid).

checking out the casting section to see what models are looking for. maybe it's quality headshots, maybe it's something edgy (whatever that means) or maybe they want to try something sexier than what they've done in the past.

and if your business model includes getting paid by models then you better bring your A game!

Indeed so! Well put. The said persons should realise how it is to be a newbie-after all they were once in the same position because they didn't automatically become the way they were or get the gear they did. Portraits,  etc isn't my first photography field so..

Revel Photo wrote:
It seems this is a huge issue, and everyone has their opinions, but being rude has no excuse. Other than blatant abusive language used in the initial message, every one deserves a reply. Whether asking for TF or to be paid, a simple "no thank you" will suffice, or something to that nature. You can even copy and save it to save time. I like everyone else has had to put up with this, and I give everyone sufficient time to reply, but for those who do that to me, rather than lecture them, I simply block them. What they don't understand is simple courtesy, and the concept of never burning bridges. Someday when they want paid work, if they've done this to enough people, nobody will work with them. If models are afraid of negative responses, block the photographer after responding. In essence, either behave in a business-like manner or go home.

I have always replied on MM and only a minority of approaches here have not been worthy of reply. I hqve still replied. However, on UK sites it has been different. I was inundated with requests, and the vast majority of them were tf by third rate glamour and adult level photographers masquerading as fine art nude. They were mostly arrogant, and sleazy. After 50 such requests were politely declined and the rudeness that followed began to sicken me, I stopped even opening them and left those sites.
To virtually all those photographers models are just new neat to see if they can get to shoot free.
I can imagine photographers saying there that models don't reply and are rude. I couldn't give a damn and they are bridges that should never be erected in the first place unless reader's wives publications are your game plan as a model,  let alone burned.
Unfortunately I would imagine I missed the odd decent job by deciding to leave those sites. But really I had a sickener of it.

And that was just me as a journeyman model who has worked with student photographers and camera clubs. So it's not like I'm that fussy. So if models are getting approached by photographers who cannot see that certain models are not going to shoot with photographers approaching them in either arrogant manner or with inappropriate language or requests, or simply not the kind of photographers they're looking to work with, then no response may be the most prudent way of dealing with it. Many models will often either be looking to test with top photographers or only be interested in work where a third party client like a designer or ad company is paying, or editorial publication. They arent going to work with hobbyist photographers just to improve their ports for pay let alone tf.

"hi sexy. What are your levels? I have a g/g shoot in mind. It's tf but you will get a disc of hi res images" is not deserving of a response from a model whose port clearly shows she doesn't do that kind of work let alone tf.

Not that all approaches are like this but enough may be to put models off replying.

The purpose of MM for models is not solely to liase with photographers. We may be marketing ourselves off site to third parties , agencies, niche markets (eg plus or alt fashion) or for jobs like fit promo stuff like grid girls, dance/performing(eg burlesque girls) or life drawing; or simply just applying for castings in which they are interested.  Many models will be highly selective with which photographers they want to work especially if they are building up a port to show agencies. They aren't going to lose sleep over not responding and getting into slanging matches with photographers who they dont want to work with; or who clearly are not offering paid work.

I also know for a fact photographers often don't respond to models that may be five foot when their ports show an interest only on shooting fashion models.

Photographers also dont often reply to casting calls applications. Is that discourteous when models have often put a lot of effort into applying?

I don't think it burns bridges either. I once when joining here wrote a pm to a nearby photographer asking if he'd shoot tf. No response. Then I applied for two castings he put up. No responses. So I gave up.on the idea. A year later out of the blue he wrote to me apologising for not replying he'd just been busy and could he book me for a shoot for an online rockabilly store . I didn't say no I am not interested because you hadn't replied so you've burned your bridges.

I think photographers have to stop behaving like guys who have been ignored by a girl at a bar. It happens to us just as much but we just don't whine about it and understand we are just not right for a particular job at a particular time so may not get a response.

TejS26 wrote:

If someone wanted to work together and contacted me first and offered me a price, I can try and work around that rate.

It looks like you're just starting out. You have to build your experience and your port to even think about getting paid. You have to offer a very high quality to get paid. If a model wants to build his/her portfolio he/she can easily do that with tfps or getting paid himself/herself. You have to have something to offer, the model has to benefit from the shoot whether it be paying the model with either good pics they can use or money.