Julia B wrote:
asked them how they got my number and how they knew that I was a model. They said that I filled out a card at a booth they had set up at a shopping area in Nashville. THIS IS B.S. BECAUSE I NEVER SHOP THERE AND I WOULD REMEMBER FILLING OUT A CARD FOR AN AGENCY!

hmm,..., that alone should've been your first flag, your own recognizance of said events, that you were facing a scam ...

Julia B wrote:
They said if I take the class I am automatically under contract with them for 1 year and that they will find me work for the duration of the class

... but if they were willing to put that in writing, that they would find you work, it might have been a bit interesting.

Julia B to Jay Bowman wrote:
Please dont insult my intelligence, as I have a degree, graduated first in my class, and I have what counts as a genius IQ. You imply that you are more intelligent than me, but I doubt it

there are in fact some interesting people of very diverse backgrounds here on MM, including an attorney, a physician, and a member of Mensa, all linked by their interest in photography ... but yet, if you didn't know them personally you wouldn't know those things about them because they never so much as allude to [ ] in their profiles or posts. interesting personality trait.

g'luck with your work!

F

Julia B wrote:
The point I was trying to make is anyone who replies to a forum post should read the initial post thoroughly before responding.  When someone just scans through and gets bits and pieces of the story, they end up sounding unintelligent in their response.  If one has time to respond, one has time to read the post beforehand.

Curt Burgess wrote:
I think people read your post. It's not like it was that long or complicated. They just aren't responding the way you wanted them to.

I never have any expectations regarding my forum posts.  They can go in several directions on MM.  Sometimes they are interesting and informative.  Sometimes they can be quite ignorant.  I don't think this one has reached its full potential just yet.

Julia B wrote:
I have no problem with nudes.  I have shot nudes, a few of which you saw on my
profile page.  I have not shot nudes since 2004.  It was the best decision I ever made for myself concerning modeling.  When I posted in my profile that I was not shooting nudes, the quality of photographers who contacted me improved considerably.  Will I do nudes in the future?  Maybe, but probably not.  Right now my no-nude policy is working great for me!  Does having old nude images contradict my policy?  Maybe.....I have given that some thought, but never came to a conclusion.

Curt Burgess wrote:
Never came to a conclusion about whether or not having nude images in your port seems contridictory to your no nudes policy.  I guess one could argue that either way. But it is clear that it conveys an inconsistent message.

This will be a fun one to watch....

I would like to hear some opinions as well.

Julia B wrote:

What the hell is a "wronkled sheet image"?  I always bring an escort because I had a shoot in 2003 where I narrowly escaped this creep and I was by myself.  Then, one went bad in 2004 and I had someone with me!  That guy was really wacko and creepy and barely escaped having his ass kicked.  So, like it or not, the escort stays unless the photographer will agree to shoot up at J. Welborn's where I know I am safe "by myself".  Yes, I have been shooting with Welborn for five years and six years otherwise.....I'm not a new model.

careful, people won't be sympathetic they'll just say it was you're fault for not researching. I've learned to stay out of forums unless I feel like taking a beating.

FML-Photography wrote:
there are in fact some interesting people of very diverse backgrounds here on MM, including an attorney, a physician, and a member of Mensa, all linked by their interest in photography ... but yet, if you didn't know them personally you wouldn't know those things about them because they never so much as allude to [ ] in their profiles or posts. interesting personality trait.

g'luck with your work!

F

I know alot of models (about 10) that are total flakes.  I know a few (about 3) who aren't.  I take pride in who I am, and that is an intelligent, 26 year old single mother.  I work my ass off taking care of my child, attending college, working promotional jobs and modeling.  I refuse to be looked at as a flakey idiot model who doesn't know shit about shit.  I am myself regardless, and I happen to be a model as well.

FML-Photography wrote:
hmm,..., that alone should've been your first flag, your own recognizance of said events, that you were facing a scam ...

You think?  Thank you for that profound utterance.

FML-Photography wrote:
hmm,..., that alone should've been your first flag, your own recognizance of said events, that you were facing a scam ...

Julia B wrote:
You think? Thank you for that profound utterance.

no profundity intended ...

Julia B wrote:
Anyway, I walked and talked for them, they "loved" me

... but simply wondered, well, for about a micro-second, why you would continue with their presentation? or feel the interest in writing about it here?

Julia B wrote:
I know alot of models (about 10) that are total flakes. I know a few (about 3) who aren't. I take pride in who I am ...

oh. i don't count flakes. that'd be negative energy. given i might have limited - (yes, i'm mortal) - cerebral capacity, prefer to look for & remember the positives.

F

FML-Photography wrote:

FML-Photography wrote:
hmm,..., that alone should've been your first flag, your own recognizance of said events, that you were facing a scam ...

Julia B wrote:
You think? Thank you for that profound utterance.

no profundity intended ...


... but simply wondered, well, for about a micro-second, why you would continue with their presentation? or feel the interest in writing about it here?


oh. i don't count flakes. that'd be negative energy. given i might have limited - (yes, i'm mortal) - cerebral capacity, prefer to look for & remember the positives.

F

Again, I asked if MTM is a real agency.  They were very professional administrators, that is, at least until the end of the interview.  I was asking if they were BSing me because I was considering working for them.....you know, for money to pay bills.  Why else?  Simply put, is this "agency" for real or a scam?  Nothing more, nothing less.  Of course, now I all ready have my answer.

It wasn't my intention to write about it here.  Just to see if any MMers knew the business with MTM.  the moment they asked for money for classes, I had made up my mind.  Part of the post was to ask about the relationship of MTM to Elite, their claim to fame.

model7299 wrote:

Isn't there a JC school AND agency?  I thought there was an actual agency that is seperate from the schools

Not exactly...the "agency" is usually located in the same office building as the school (I think someone else posted that, too...not sure).

What they will tell you when you try to sign on with the "agency" is that if you take their classes, then you will automatically be signed on once you "graduate."

When I first started in modeling (yep, I do that too...lol), I got a call from these people, and went to one of their "auditions." That is how I know about their company. While I was at their little audition, they have about 20-30 people walk a runway, read a few lines from a script, and then hand them their photos. Then, the ones they like, they call back for another "audition." Keep in mind, they call back almost everyone. Anyhow, I knew it was a scam after seeing one of the people they talked into taking classes for runway...she was way under the height requirements for doing runway. Needless to say, I didn't go back for any more of their auditions, and definitely didn't sign for their classes.

Jael M to Julia B wrote:
You do sound harsh dear; harsh and very defensive (...) Read some of the real models profiles on here (...) you should heed what others are saying about your portfolio. Take out some images that might be redundant ...

Don't believe the OP was asking about editing her port - (wasn't her question about the legitimacy of a purported agency?) - and won't attempt to define what makes any particular model "real" ...

... but it might be that same harsh, defensiveness that [she] apparently reflected to some readers that could be captured, harnessed so to speak, and brought out on film for some really edgy looking material. It'd be an incentive to some. Yeah. A "plus" of sorts.

Kudos Julia B!

F

FML-Photography wrote:

Don't believe the OP was asking about editing her port - (wasn't her question about the legitimacy of a purported agency?) - and won't attempt to define what makes any particular model "real" ...

... but it might be that same harsh, defensiveness that [she] apparently reflected to some readers that could be captured, harnessed so to speak, and brought out on film for some really edgy looking material. It'd be an incentive to some. Yeah. A "plus" of sorts.

Kudos Julia B!

F

Ah, no she wasn't. But if someone wanted to give me their honest opinion on what they think would benefit me in a positive way, I wouldn't mind hearing it. ~shrug~ Yes, you can capture harsh and defensiveness on camera and get cool images. I was mentioning the fact that it isn't good to get that reputation of defensive etc. Many people have different opinions on what is real. I am saying someone who doesn't use their myspace photos as an avatar wouldn't be, say, a real model. I should have said professional/semi, thanks. It is meant for the best, I think she will know that.

-Jael

Ched wrote:
Well... Elite isn't an agency anymore, technically. All the big shops are now "model management" companies. It's a legal distingction, agents can only take 10% of your earnings, managers can take as much as you'll let them.

To be more precise:

Elite Model Management North America is structured as a model management company, and is headquartered in New York City.  In NYC all the "model agencies" are in fact model management companies.  However, Elite operates divisions in other states, and where required, does license them as model agencies (or "talent agencies").  The Elite office is one example.

The 10% restriction is unique to NYC only, and does not necessarily apply to agencies in other parts of the country.

Julia B wrote:
I'm one of those who doesn't shoot with so-called photographers who lack skill and bought a camera so they can see girls naked.  Go to a strip club where you can pay a girl to get naked......that is not the purpose of a model.

Artists, Sculptors and Photographers have been using nude models for several thousand years.  There are many legitimate photographers who photograph nude models.  Nude modeling is one part of modeling.
There are many models who pose nude who would argue about your statement "that is not the purpose of a model."  You can choose not to model nude, but do not compare a person who models nude to a girl in a strip club!!!!!

Julia B wrote:
I was contacted by "Model Talent Management Agency" that supposedly is an extension of Elite.  They hire "local market models" for runway shows at local malls and all sorts of print work. 

I have no idea how they came to know about me.  I went in for an interview with them and asked them how they got my number and how they knew that I was a model.  They said that I filled out a card at a booth they had set up at a shopping area in Nashville.  THIS IS B.S. BECAUSE I NEVER SHOP THERE AND I WOULD REMEMBER FILLING OUT A CARD FOR AN AGENCY!

Anyway, I walked and talked for them, they "loved" me.  Then they showed me a list of their local clients, which was quite impressive.  Next, they told me that I needed to attend one of the two "modeling classes" that they teach.  One is for print, but the other is what I was told I "lacked experience" in which is geared toward speaking/acting for commercials and makeup application.  They said they couldn't hire me on just extensive print experience alone: I need to know how to audition for commercials. 

So the dumb class is just over 1,000 dollars.  They said if I take the class I am automatically under contract with them for 1 year and that they will find me work for the duration of the class. 

It sounded good, except I'm not about to spend 1,000 on a class to teach me how to apply eyeshadow.  Towards the end of interview, it seemed like the lady was just trying to sell me on the class instead of being interested in selling me to potential clients.

Any thoughts or advice will be greatly appreciated!

My opinion follows:

Even on the off-chance that they are legit, it sounds like they are not trying to find models work or really do anything to further your career.  Their goal is merely to make money off models by getting them to pay $1,000 for a training class.

My recommendation:

Either ignore them or show them the middle finger.

Julia B wrote:
How are they connected to Elite?

Jay Bowman wrote:
What in the world makes you think they are?  The fact that they said so?  If you said you were a division of Elite and wrote in on your website, would that make it true?

Julia B wrote:
Actually, I never said I thought they were.  I asked if they were. You should read more thoroughly before responding.

Again, to be precise and reading thoroughly, your question asked how they were connected, not if they were connected.  The question implies a connection and requests information on the nature of it.  That is supported by the following statement:

Julia B wrote:
When you use a search engine and type in ModeltalentManagement and Elite, there are several sites that say Elite is a "mother" company to MTM.

That also says you think you have reason to believe that Model Talent Management is connected to Elite.  So the question seems not at all unwarranted.

This, however, does seem unwarranted:

Julia B wrote:
Please dont insult my intelligence, as I have a degree, graduated first in my class, and I have what counts as a genius IQ.  You imply that you are more intelligent than me, but I doubt it.  THANKS!

He did no such thing.  He asked about the clear meaning of your words, his question was about the substance of the conversation, and neither said nor implied anything about anyone's intelligence.

It does, I suppose, imply something about experience and skills in dealing with the industry, neither of which have a great deal to do with either high intelligence nor what happens in school.  Given your performance in this thread, the implication about your experience and research skills seems warranted.

Experience, for instance, suggests that if you want to know what the divisions of Elite are, you get that information from Elite, not from some random Google searches.  You could call them and ask (you didn't) or you could look on the Elite website (you didn't) which lists all the Elite locations and divisions.  http://elitemodels.com/flash.html

When you fail to do those things, it's not a really good time to be telling us how smart you are.

There are people here who have higher IQs than you, much more impressive educational accomplishments, and far more actual experience in the industry.  Throwing yours out there in an aggressive way does not help you at all.

Jerry Nemeth wrote:

Artists, Sculptors and Photographers have been using nude models for several thousand years.  There are many legitimate photographers who photograph nude models.  Nude modeling is one part of modeling.
There are many models who pose nude who would argue about your statement "that is not the purpose of a model."  You can choose not to model nude, but do not compare a person who models nude to a girl in a strip club!!!!!

It was most definitely NOT my intention to compare nude models to dancers.  I used to be a nude model......

To clarify, any person with a camera these days can say they are a photographer in order to try to get girls naked.  I've experienced it and I see it on here. 

That's the downfall to posting off of the subject....everyone seems to lose track and if you don't read every single post, you may miss something.

TXPhotog wrote:

Julia B wrote:
How are they connected to Elite?

Jay Bowman wrote:
What in the world makes you think they are?  The fact that they said so?  If you said you were a division of Elite and wrote in on your website, would that make it true?

Julia B wrote:
Actually, I never said I thought they were.  I asked if they were. You should read more thoroughly before responding.

Again, to be precise and reading thoroughly, your question asked how they were connected, not if they were connected.  The question implies a connection and requests information on the nature of it.  That is supported by the following statement:


That also says you think you have reason to believe that Model Talent Management is connected to Elite.  So the question seems not at all unwarranted.

This, however, does seem unwarranted:


He did no such thing.  He asked about the clear meaning of your words, his question was about the substance of the conversation, and neither said nor implied anything about anyone's intelligence.

It does, I suppose, imply something about experience and skills in dealing with the industry, neither of which have a great deal to do with either high intelligence nor what happens in school.  Given your performance in this thread, the implication about your experience and research skills seems warranted.

Experience, for instance, suggests that if you want to know what the divisions of Elite are, you get that information from Elite, not from some random Google searches.  You could call them and ask (you didn't) or you could look on the Elite website (you didn't) which lists all the Elite locations and divisions.  http://elitemodels.com/flash.html

When you fail to do those things, it's not a really good time to be telling us how smart you are.

There are people here who have higher IQs than you, much more impressive educational accomplishments, and far more actual experience in the industry.  Throwing yours out there in an aggressive way does not help you at all.

Actually, I have been on the Elite site many times......before and after my trip to MTM.

I am surrounded by people with higher IQs than me, higher degrees, and more experience in all sorts of things....music in particular.  Do you really think your statements are going to bother me?  I have gained nothing from your posts except you bitching about me and  you telling me things that I all ready know.  I see that you are trying to be insulting.  Maybe you should stick to photography.

Julia B wrote:
Actually, I have been on the Elite site many times......before and after my trip to MTM.

And yet the fact that it doesn't list MTM as a division somehow failed to make an impression on you.

Julia B wrote:
I am surrounded by people with higher IQs than me, higher degrees, and more experience in all sorts of things....music in particular.  Do you really think your statements are going to bother me?

I don't care whether they "bother you" or not.  A much more important question would be whether your statements about your IQ and school records will do you any good among the readership here.  That question is one that, I suggest, you should be paying attention to.

Julia B wrote:
I have gained nothing from your posts except you bitching about me and  you telling me things that I all ready know.

I agree, you have gained nothing.  Which is a shame, given your claimed high IQ.  Perhaps if you read with less defensiveness and more willingness to learn, you would gain something.

This thread has contained may opinions and much information that you would do well to pay attention to.  Instead, after asking a dumb question you tell us how smart you are and that we have nothing you can learn from.  How, exactly, do you think that has improved your standing in this community?

Jael M wrote:
I happened to stroll by on my way out of MM for the night when I saw this thread. Being completely unbiased to this thread I only wanted to comment on you-Dear OP...One thing you must know is that you are, right now, the lone matador with a giant red flag waving wildly in the wind. The bulls are charging because you keep waving the flag.

You are new to MM posts I see, with roughly as many posts under your belt as candles on your cake. I thought to give you some modeling advice.

You do sound harsh dear; harsh and very defensive. I am assuming that you are on MM because you would like work. With all work we must be professional. I don’t think that calling people on here "assholes" or insulting them about their IQ level is completely on the level. I also wouldn't take the forums as a place to talk about your personal life, IQ level, and opinion on other peoples manners. It just has an air of amateur to it that I am sure you don't want.

You may not want to work with anyone you have talked to on this thread but how do you know that someone who you DO want to work with, won't stroll by, as I did, and take this thread the same way I did? You must sell yourself, and not only your looks, but your personality. Honey catches more flies...

You also said, OP that you realized that your profile is harsh...but I just read it and it is still rather rough on the edges. To smooth it out and make it sound more professional would be a good fresh start. (Read some of the real models profiles on here, some MODS are good examples) Also, maybe they didn't say it the best of ways, or the nicest ~gives look to grumpy photographers~ but you should heed what others are saying about your portfolio. Take out some images that might be redundant, (#2, 5, 9, 12 are not your best?imho) and think quality not quantity. You should do fine and I hope you do. I do not flatter myself to think that everyone wants my opinion but if you do, then it is there for the taking. All the best

-Jael

The last thing MM, or the world, needs is models critiquing other models.  Points for trying, though.

TXPhotog wrote:

Julia B wrote:
Actually, I have been on the Elite site many times......before and after my trip to MTM.

And yet the fact that it doesn't list MTM as a division somehow failed to make an impression on you.

Julia B wrote:
I am surrounded by people with higher IQs than me, higher degrees, and more experience in all sorts of things....music in particular.  Do you really think your statements are going to bother me?

I don't care whether they "bother you" or not.  A much more important question would be whether your statements about your IQ and school records will do you any good among the readership here.  That question is one that, I suggest, you should be paying attention to.


I agree, you have gained nothing.  Which is a shame, given your claimed high IQ.  Perhaps if you read with less defensiveness and more willingness to learn, you would gain something.

This thread has contained may opinions and much information that you would do well to pay attention to.  Instead, after asking a dumb question you tell us how smart you are and that we have nothing you can learn from.  How, exactly, do you think that has improved your standing in this community?

Since you chose to use "we", let me clarify.  I was speaking specifically to you, not  to anyone else who has posted.

Julia B wrote:

The last thing MM, or the world, needs is models critiquing other models.  Points for trying, though.

shakes head

Julia B wrote:
Since you chose to use "we", let me clarify.  I was speaking specifically to you, not  to anyone else who has posted.

Me, we, whatever.  The point stands as made.  You have been aggressive in attacking people who said things you didn't like.  Your comment to Jael just now, whose post was correct, is an example.

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
Artists, Sculptors and Photographers have been using nude models for several thousand years.  There are many legitimate photographers who photograph nude models.  Nude modeling is one part of modeling.
There are many models who pose nude who would argue about your statement "that is not the purpose of a model."  You can choose not to model nude, but do not compare a person who models nude to a girl in a strip club!!!!!

Jerry, good afternoon to you and Julia both! Perhaps for as long as there have been models, there has been confusion for some as to what it is that we models do. The same holds true for striptease performers, without a doubt.  I have worked full-time at both successfully.  Most women do not have what it takes to do either, much less both - and do it very, very well.  Professionally industry is no place for the morally benighted.   
My bio brief:  http://kathays.com/index.cfm?mid=1643&a … rum&open=1

Respectfully, Kathy Jean
2:52P CST Edit to add:  There's a saying that goes, "Forgive them their dirty minds and gossipy mouths, for they are neither worldly nor educated."  As an actively involved, working parent of six, I simply do not have time for bullshit.

KathyJean wrote:

Jerry, good afternoon to you and Julia both! Perhaps for as long as there have been model, there has been confusion for some as to what it is that we models do. The same holds true for striptease performers, without a doubt.  I have worked full-time at both successfully.  Most women do not have what it takes to do either, much less both - and do it very, very well.  Professionally industry is no place for the morally benighted.
My bio brief:  http://kathays.com/index.cfm?mid=1643&a … rum&open=1

Respectfully, Kathy Jean

Kathy Jean,

Agreed.  I was an entertainer from 2000 through 2004.  I was hesitant to make that point, but out of respect for the industry I'll go ahead and say it.

Thanks!

TXPhotog wrote:

Me, we, whatever.  The point stands as made.  You have been aggressive in attacking people who said things you didn't like.  Your comment to Jael just now, whose post was correct, is an example.

How is my comment to Jael an attack?  or even aggressive?  I simply do not accept criticism from fellow models.  You guys (photographers) can have at it all you want.  I accept and appreciate all of the comments and opinions from photographers, whether it's what I wanted to hear or not.  If I don't agree, I may choose to say so.

Point:  I did revise my port after several photographers criticized it.  I am open to any ideas. 

I feel I may have been aggressive in defense, yet rightfully so.

Julia B wrote:
I simply do not accept criticism from fellow models.

And rightly so.  They are a surly and incompetent lot, and certainly have no experience or knowledge that you could benefit from.  I fully understand your decision not to listen to them.

Say what?

Julia B wrote:
I feel I may have been aggressive in defense, yet rightfully so.

I agree.  You do feel that.

Your feelings, much like your feelings about the advice that can be given from other models, does not define truth, however.

TXPhotog wrote:

Julia B wrote:
I simply do not accept criticism from fellow models.

And rightly so.  They are a surly and incompetent lot, and certainly have no experience or knowledge that you could benefit from.  I fully understand your decision not to listen to them.

Say what?



I agree.  You do feel that.

Your feelings, much like your feelings about the advice that can be given from other models, does not define truth, however.

How can you agree with what I am feeling?  Wow, I thought you were one of the smarter ones!  or did you just not read the sentence correctly? 

How can you say that ones own feelings do not define truth?  It's called an opinion.  No one on here is right or wrong.  The only thing that can be "right" is the standards or guidelines that we use for our particular profession.  I don't think this thread reflects any standard professional behavior that I've ever seen.

Julia B wrote:
How can you agree with what I am feeling?

Consider the alternative:  "I disagree that is what you are feeling."  Now THAT might be problematical.

As it is, I have every confidence that what you feel is, in fact, what you feel.  I just don't have any confidence that your feelings are closely related to reality.

Julia B wrote:
How can you say that ones own feelings do not define truth?

Feelings and truth are not closely related concepts.

Julia B wrote:
The last thing MM, or the world, needs is models critiquing other models.  Points for trying, though.

Wow, last time I looked it was considered nice to try to help out fellow models!!! =o0 I was trying to be helpful; I wasn't doing it for points. I have personally emailed other models that had superior portfolios than mine and asked what they thought and have gotten excellent feedback. With time perhaps you will learn. All the best still

-Jael

TXPhotog wrote:
Me, we, whatever.  The point stands as made.  You have been aggressive in attacking people who said things you didn't like.  Your comment to Jael just now, whose post was correct, is an example.

Julia B wrote:
How is my comment to Jael an attack?  or even aggressive?  I simply do not accept criticism from fellow models.  You guys (photographers) can have at it all you want.  I accept and appreciate all of the comments and opinions from photographers, whether it's what I wanted to hear or not.  If I don't agree, I may choose to say so.

Point:  I did revise my port after several photographers criticized it.  I am open to any ideas. 

I feel I may have been aggressive in defense, yet rightfully so.

Thank you TX for your support.

OP: I would take advice from where ever it happened to come from. Photographer/model/mua/stylist....we can all help each other. I think it is a little negative and foolish to say you would never accept help from someone (just because they happened to be a model) who wanted to help you. You are still coming off a bit rough... But really, as you say it is your choice and I still wish you the best.

-Jael