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What's up with Photographers insisting on Managing
Lately I have had a few model friends of mine ask me about various Photographers. These Photographers contact them about wanting to shoot TFCD, but then want them to sign papers and allow them to manage them saying they run an agency.... What is up with that??? Check it out..... http://www.emanuelphoto.com/01PagesFoll … shoots.htm Nov 06 06 12:17 pm Link David Johnson wrote: AKA - Sluggo's! Nov 06 06 12:20 pm Link David Johnson wrote: Must be as power thing. Nov 06 06 12:20 pm Link C R Photography wrote: Yeah, stupid idiots. Usually GWC's, thinking ,'If I manage a shitload of models, it'll make me look more "pro" and I'll have a long list of naive models to shoot naked whenever I want and I won't let her work with anyone else'. Nov 06 06 12:23 pm Link I feel bad for silly models that fall for that crap. Nov 06 06 12:24 pm Link David Johnson wrote: If they don't do it, someone else will. And that person will be less intelligent and less capable of making sure these models are protected. Nov 06 06 12:52 pm Link You know, you never see talented photographers doing this sort of shit. It's always the guys who manage to make a 30D shoot cell-phone quality images. Nov 06 06 01:04 pm Link How the hell do they find time to manage models?! I'm busy enough orgainizing shoots, processing, emailing.....I don't have time to keep track of someone else and their career. Nov 06 06 01:10 pm Link I saw a chick the other day who claimed to be affiliated with "Angels of Color" modeling agency. Her shots weren't up to agency standards, so I googled the name...what do you know...no website. Sounds like a sluggo to me. Oh well...if they're naive enough to put up with that crap I suppose it's not that much of a loss. Nov 06 06 01:36 pm Link Kaitlin Lara wrote: Sluggo! Great description. Nov 06 06 01:44 pm Link It's a total conflict of interest... NEVER get trapped into this. Nov 06 06 01:47 pm Link Well this guy is actually a very talented Photographer, but he is so called managing over 10o models..... http://member.onemodelplace.com/photogr … P_ID=39238 Nov 06 06 01:50 pm Link TX could correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's illegal to say you have an agency if you don't actually have it licensed or whatever. Nov 06 06 01:57 pm Link e-string wrote: The laws vary from state to state. Not every state requires licensing. One state used to have it so that the only people who could be agents were photographers. The had a license category for photographers who were representing models. It goes back to the old days. Nov 06 06 02:04 pm Link Here in Texas, a license is required, but enforcement is lax. I've personally sent complaints to the TDLR about photographers who are "managing" under the table (screening emails, controlling online model portfolios on MM/OMP/etc.) in the Houston market and have yet to see anything come of it. Not that a license is that difficult to get in Texas--you basically have to be bonded and registered and agree to certain rules about how you make your money. Nov 06 06 05:59 pm Link David Johnson wrote: Talent or not, it's an absolute conflict of interest. I don't know about where he is located, but in many states, including Georgia, a photographer being an agent or manager is illegal and subject to substantial fines. Nov 06 06 06:12 pm Link Thats scary, I have a hard enough time delivering Photos in a timely manner (1 week Max) and to try and manage a model @ the sma time, That crazy! I have seen countless of photogs managing models... I never knew it was illegal. Nov 06 06 06:42 pm Link Since I am a photographer, maybe I should get a model to manage me? Sounds kinda stupid if you ask me. Plus who has time for that? It is bad enough that clients ask me to supply models for some of the shoots I do. To manage them, no way! Nov 06 06 06:48 pm Link I wasn't aware that there were actually any "Real" photographers that even considered managing models? Either you are a photographer or a modeling agent.....or I guess you could be a GWC/Sluggo Nov 06 06 06:51 pm Link heck.. even his website has a lot of bad grammar and mis-spellings... over a hundred models he is managing?? geez.. sluggo to the max.. Nov 06 06 06:54 pm Link David Johnson wrote: Yes he is! Nov 06 06 07:03 pm Link ~*Isabel Aurora*~ wrote: What a ridiculous and juvenile thing to say. Nov 06 06 09:56 pm Link David Johnson wrote: Yes, his website, work is really very good. A number of local photogs seem to do this, have models sign restrictive contracts of one kind or another..... the "model collector" disease inherited from OMP I assume. Nov 06 06 11:06 pm Link I'd imagine that the photographer isn't the one getting clients for the models. You'd think the photographer would hire a sales & marketing team to sell the models around, right? It could be a legitimate business.. Nov 06 06 11:51 pm Link David Johnson wrote: At the risk of appearing a fool, (wouldn't be the first time) I can't seem to locate on the linked page where the photgrapher wants them to sign management papers? Nov 07 06 01:00 am Link This guy is in NC. He contacted me a few months ago through OMP offering me the "test shoot" deal for free...and then I read about having to list him as your manager, join his fan club, buy a t-shirt and donate blood (ok, the last two were exaggerations), and I never contacted him back. And the sad thing is, I have heard from others that did paid shoots with him that he really is a good photographer, but he's scaring people away with that LONG paragraph of conditions just to "test shoot" with him. Nov 07 06 01:15 am Link Ah, got it, I'll trust it's in there in another area. Thanks. Nov 07 06 01:37 am Link ~*Isabel Aurora*~ wrote: By no means do you suck.... LOL Nov 07 06 01:44 am Link So I hear that somebody is talking BS about how I do things and what I do. First off if people don't have better things to do then to be looking in to other people way of doing things and BS about it well that is their business. I thing is kind of inappropriate to go behind somebodyâs back and gossip. If you have something to say or have a question, have the balls to ask me face to face. I got too much to do to have time to look at what others do and go around gossip about it. People do things different and that is what makes the world go around. Some match some donât. Some like my style some donât and is all good. Why I manage models or what I do? Lately with 10-15 requests of tfps a day I have to be selective with whom I spend my time with and whom I work with. I have no shortage of models or talent and have pretty much all I need in my portfolio. Models I trade or do tfp with are models that are interested in promoting my work in return for me helping them with good images to lunch them in to the market. Actually strong images and a strong portfolio can get a model from the bottom to the top in the industry fast, in to major magazies and working with major clients. So trough time I found that my time and my images are very valuable when it comes to models or make up artist portfolios. So the models I trade with are models willing to link to me and promote my page and in return I promote their page. Omp has the link as manager and is how they word it. I have no desire or time to micromanage a model get involved in their affairs or emails. That is stated clearly in my letter to models I link to my page. They are all independent, make their own decisions work with who ever they want. If I see that they work with poor quality people and make bad choices I unlink them. The ones linked to me get discounts in prints and editing and packages I sell. If I get a job that goes to a model linked to me I take no percentage what so ever. Is up to her to negotiate directly with the client. I encourage all clients and photographers to contact directly all my models as is stated in my portfolios for all to read and see. Actually I link them (not manage) I have acquired trough time many clients that need models for different projects. When they need a specific look or model I go to my page and pick the model that fits the description. And works like a charm. Is a model I have worked with in the past, less stress or tension, she knows how I work, I have test shot her and I found out that she can be on time, she is reliable, we are a personality match that works well together. That way I donât work with a model cold that the client does a search for and I never worked with in the past. The model may not show up, may have a chip on her shoulder, may not be able to pose and work under stress. I had national client that hired model for the job just to be at the day of the shoot with a model not showing up. So I called one of my models at the last minute and did the job. She was happy and available on short notice and made a quick $600 bucks for the day. The client got the job done and it worked well all round. So I use models that I tested and models that promote my work and in return I send them work. I have linked 111 models at the moment. All their emails are disconnected from my port so I do not get their emails. I have better things to do with my time then read what models do or who emails them and what emails they get. I spend between an hour to 2 hours a day on my own emails. Got no time for other people emails and problems. For the models linked to me I am available in instant messengers, emails and phone for advice. Many ask me what I think about this job, what should I charge, what do I think about this image and so forth. I find so much talent there that has no clue how to promote themselves and there actually is work out there and good money that can be made with proper talent management. I found that models inclined to link to a photographer easier to work with, that trust somebody else and do better in shoots then the models afraid to release control. (Which I do not have any desire to take form the model to begin with) Good relationships are based on trust and good communication, positive attitude and much more. Being an agency or acting as an agent came as a result of getting clients that need models and me needing good models for work. Since I have clients and models coming back to me over and over for commercial and port work I must be doing something right. Since over 111 models are linked to me we canât think that all of them donât know what they doing. My images got many of them in major magazines such as Maxim, FHM, AOL, a long list I cant begin to put here. So why I do what I do is not any others photographers business. They need to be more concerned with their business and how to make it work and make it better then go around spreading negativity. One thing I came to find the better you get the bigger your negative fan club gets and insecure competition will bite your back. The president of US gets hundreds of treats and negative emails and mail every day. Goes with the territory. If you cant stand the heat do not get in to the fire. And why I link models. Well is good marketing. I have over one million 3 hundreed thousand views in my page. Models linked to me are viewed by large clients and agencies. Many national accounts came to me saying we like this model on your page and like to work with her. Is good exposure for the model and is good exposure for me as well. Also a good photographer acts as a good business card. I know that if a model is linked to a top photographer she gets a little training, learns how to appreciate good quality image and I would be working with somebody that will be appreciate what I have to offer. I am in the process of hiring a model manager, soembayds to look for jobs for the models and do a lot of the work and marketing and promotion I do for the models. That person would be somebody qualified with connections to take care of the loyal models I work with. There are models that come to me and ask to link to my page so they get exposure to major clients and get a good recommendation, keep the unwanted photographers of their backs. Some models actually like and prefer to be represented and linked to somebody for many reasons. So this is all the free training I am sending out there. This is how I do and what I do. I got no time and desire to get in to debates over the Internet. So you guys have a good time talking about it. Thank you Isabel for your support. If you guys have something positive to say you know where to find me. Other then that I got no time for negativity. You all have a wonderful day. Is raining here today in NC but o wellJ the son will come out tomorrow. Best wishes to all of you. Regards, Emanuel emanuelphoto.com/ OMP ID#: 39238 Nov 07 06 11:07 am Link ezwebart wrote: In your case, maybe you're an exception. I've seen your work some months back over at OMP. It's nice. But, what has been described in everyone's posts here is pretty accurate for most photographers we see managing models. I think, maybe, the OP used the wrong photographer as an example of the typical "sluggo" we often see taking advantage of naive, beginning models. Nov 07 06 12:59 pm Link I have only ever heard positive things about emanuel's (spelled correctly?) work. But, all the "conditions" on his site did send up the red flag for me. We emailed back and forth a few times, as I was trying to get him to ease up on all the restrictions, and he would not. Which is fine. As we have all discussed on other threads, if either party doesn't like the conditions of the shoot, then don't do it. Doesn't mean anyone is doing anything wrong, it just means the parties maybe don't "click." (No pun intended, I promise). And, I don't think anyone was attacking Emanuel specifically or his procedures, rather just asking for clarification on the validity and/or legality of a photographer acting as a manager as well. Nov 07 06 01:09 pm Link ezwebart wrote: Finally a good response... Nov 07 06 01:51 pm Link LarryB wrote: Apfel Photography wrote: So I guess "Superman" sucks or is just a GWC? Nov 07 06 01:54 pm Link I recently had a decent looking model contact me to shoot about a month ago. she was begging me to shoot! i sent her a message to confirm the details and she replys saying that i need to contact this photographer to book her..i take a look at the profile and its some tool with a t-shirt that says "I take pictures of beautiful women for a living..what do you do?"..... lets just say i replyd to the model "thanks...but no thanks" she replyd back confused but i think someday she'll get it.... Nov 07 06 02:16 pm Link Point blank: These clowns are laughable. Sadly, the laughs usually end up at the model's expense - far too late for them to recover... and have a career. God, in his infinite wisdom - made more. Nov 07 06 02:45 pm Link Rossi Photography wrote: I agree.... Nov 07 06 02:49 pm Link ChristianBehr wrote: Care to explain how the models represented by shooters in this thread are having their career's put in jeopardy? Nov 07 06 07:11 pm Link Sure. Firstly is the great conflict of interest. If you're bidding jobs, you can adjust their rate and keep your own high. Being both the client and agents allows for that. I'm not saying you do... but convincing girls who don't know that you probably know less than them, wouldn't be hard. Make them take the short end of the stick and walk away with the lion's share. Or worse, quote a high rate - give them nothing and walk away with their paycheck. Conflict of interests. Also, who is going to divulge to a photographer, client info for a project? I wouldn't send you info about my clients or coming castings. So they miss all the photographer generated castings - with the exception of the flesh work that seems to be what photographer/managers concentrate on. What makes you think you or any of the "photographers" on this thread know what's actually good for a model? Did you earn your stripes working for an agency? A reputable agency? Or did you just figure you knew enough from what you learned here. Did you read a book? How did you decide you knew more than the model? Now, by the time a model can figure out how full of shit a photographer/manager is, she may have already done flesh sites, aged out, or just done enough smut work to make her " undesirable." Further, are you under the impression that a real agency is going to go through some smut peddler to get to a model? Agents will write the girl off as a "potential porn model" and move on. That enough or should I continue? christian Nov 07 06 07:37 pm Link ChristianBehr wrote: Well, fist off framing the discussion with what "I do" would be kind of silly. I don't "manage" anyone. I do help one friend, for whom English is not her primary language. Like the previous poster, I don't book gigs, see emails, or offer pre-shoot advice. I do sometimes help translate or make certain terms clear, but as her English has been improving greatly, I'm doing less and less of this, and only at her request. Nov 07 06 08:00 pm Link lightsandshadow wrote: yeah, I wish someone would manage me. Nov 07 06 08:23 pm Link |
And I've actually worked with him....very nice guy....he didn't ask to manage me in any way - does that mean I suck? 
