Model
Julia B
Posts: 73
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Yesterday I traveled about 3 hours away for a half day shoot at the flat rate of 250. I worked with what seemed to be a professional team of MakeUp artists and photographers. at the end of the shoot, I was asked to sign an invoice, but not a release, and I asked who I needed to ask for my payment. The photographer said, "oh, you'll receive a check in the mail in about 60 days." I said EXCUSE ME? needless to say, I was quite upset that this was not told to me prior to driving 3 hours. I expressed my concern that I would not receive my check in the mail. The makeup artist told me that in the "real world of modeling", this is how models get paid (by a check in the mail). She said she has been modeling for 15 years and has never been paid cash at the beginning or end of a shoot. I find this hard to believe as I have been modeling for damn near 6 years and I have only been PAID BY CHECK ONCE, AND IT WAS HANDED TO ME BEFORE I LEFT THE SET!
HAS THIS HAPPENED TO ANYONE? IS THIS COMMON? WAS I SCAMMED? I was also told that I was the only model that had a problem with waiting 60 days for the check!....is this b/c the other models were told beforehand?
This company exists and I have all of the contact information.....is there anything I can do if I don't receive my check?
Thanks for all of your thoughts/advice!
Photographer
Bill Sylvester
Posts: 1509
Fairfield, Ohio, US
Julia B wrote:
This company exists and I have all of the contact information.....is there anything I can do if I don't receive my check?
Thanks for all of your thoughts/advice! Yes. You may contact your lawyer.
Model
Dances with Wolves
Posts: 25108
SHAWNEE ON DELAWARE, Pennsylvania, US
Julia B wrote:
HAS THIS HAPPENED TO ANYONE? IS THIS COMMON? WAS I SCAMMED? I was also told that I was the only model that had a problem with waiting 60 days for the check!....is this b/c the other models were told beforehand?
This company exists and I have all of the contact information.....is there anything I can do if I don't receive my check?
Thanks for all of your thoughts/advice! Every time I waited for a check, I ended up waiting at least two months. Minimum.
Now I don't accept checks as I can't wait like that and sometimes, they bounce...and small claims court will just drain 8 hours out of my life, and they won't show up, so I will lose anyway. Any gigs I do for promo I ask for money to be paid either up front, or for someone to sign something stating when I can expect a MONEY ORDER NOT CHECK. If they have a problem, then I don't do the shoot/gig or whatever it is. Maybe it's demanding, but it saves me the stress of waiting for money that I may or may not see.
I have to ask- being professional- why didn't you ask them when you would be paid? I think the assumption on your part was your first mistake.
GL and I hope you get the $$
-D
Model
Julia B
Posts: 73
Nashville, Tennessee, US
You're right, I learned from that mistake......Since this has never happened to me before, I did not ask "when". Now I always will in the future.
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 12221
Los Angeles, California, US
Julia B wrote:
Yesterday I traveled about 3 hours away for a half day shoot at the flat rate of 250. I worked with what seemed to be a professional team of MakeUp artists and photographers. at the end of the shoot, I was asked to sign an invoice, but not a release, and I asked who I needed to ask for my payment. The photographer said, "oh, you'll receive a check in the mail in about 60 days." I said EXCUSE ME? needless to say, I was quite upset that this was not told to me prior to driving 3 hours. I expressed my concern that I would not receive my check in the mail. The makeup artist told me that in the "real world of modeling", this is how models get paid (by a check in the mail). She said she has been modeling for 15 years and has never been paid cash at the beginning or end of a shoot. I find this hard to believe as I have been modeling for damn near 6 years and I have only been PAID BY CHECK ONCE, AND IT WAS HANDED TO ME BEFORE I LEFT THE SET!
HAS THIS HAPPENED TO ANYONE? IS THIS COMMON? WAS I SCAMMED? I was also told that I was the only model that had a problem with waiting 60 days for the check!....is this b/c the other models were told beforehand?
This company exists and I have all of the contact information.....is there anything I can do if I don't receive my check?
Thanks for all of your thoughts/advice! Well, I don't pay models, so what do I know, but...
In business (and I have decades of experience here), it's common practice for someone 'pulling something' to take the stance that you were the 1st one that ever objected. It's also common for them to have sort of a shill, that backs up what they say...
This all does not mean you won't get your money in 2 months.
John
Photographer
Amy J Jones Photography
Posts: 524
Fallston, Maryland, US
If you go through an agency you sign a voucher that states how long you worked, what the images are being used for and who is responsible for your payment. The agency bills the client, the agency gets paid and then they cut a check to you. It can take up to three months. In the real world of modeling (vs the internet stuff) a check is the only way you get paid. No one will every hand you cash, again, I'm talking work done through an agency. Maybe that's what the woman meant by "real world."
It's the agencies job to make sure you get paid, because that's the only way THEY get paid. That's why working through an agency is the best way to go. You have THEIR lawyers working for you if a client doesn't pay. A good agency will pay you out of their fund even if they get stiffed.
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 26342
Portland, Oregon, US
Well, I ain't a lawyer, but most releases have verbiage to the effect that "in exchange for value received, I (the model) relinquish all rights..."
Which implies to me that you sign the release once you've gotten paid.
Of course, I'm not advising that. In fact, I'd advise that you suck it up, wait the 60 days, rant if you aren't paid by then, and be wiser the next time you negotiate a sitting. You have some new questions to ask now.
Photographer
HEF Photography
Posts: 1817
Jacksonville, Florida, US
Julia B wrote:
Yesterday I traveled about 3 hours away for a half day shoot at the flat rate of 250. I worked with what seemed to be a professional team of MakeUp artists and photographers. at the end of the shoot, I was asked to sign an invoice, but not a release, and I asked who I needed to ask for my payment. The photographer said, "oh, you'll receive a check in the mail in about 60 days." I said EXCUSE ME? needless to say, I was quite upset that this was not told to me prior to driving 3 hours. I expressed my concern that I would not receive my check in the mail. The makeup artist told me that in the "real world of modeling", this is how models get paid (by a check in the mail). She said she has been modeling for 15 years and has never been paid cash at the beginning or end of a shoot. I find this hard to believe as I have been modeling for damn near 6 years and I have only been PAID BY CHECK ONCE, AND IT WAS HANDED TO ME BEFORE I LEFT THE SET!
HAS THIS HAPPENED TO ANYONE? IS THIS COMMON? WAS I SCAMMED? I was also told that I was the only model that had a problem with waiting 60 days for the check!....is this b/c the other models were told beforehand?
This company exists and I have all of the contact information.....is there anything I can do if I don't receive my check?
Thanks for all of your thoughts/advice! Was it a corporate client ? Did you sign a models release ?
Alot of times if the corporate client is paying the tab it could be up to
2 months for payment. The photographer also has to wait until he
get's paid just like you.....if you never signed a release and they use it
in print (and it's a corp client) you have them by the short hairs....
hopefully they have deep pockets....ask the photographer who is paying
the bill....maybe he is waiting to pay you when he get paid, never the less
he should have told you and you should have asked before you accepted
the assignment.....give him/her a call and ask....
Model
Julia B
Posts: 73
Nashville, Tennessee, US
I never signed a release. I printed my name, address and phone number on an invoice, signed nothing.
Photographer
picturephoto
Posts: 8687
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Julia B wrote:
Yesterday I traveled about 3 hours away for a half day shoot at the flat rate of 250. I worked with what seemed to be a professional team of MakeUp artists and photographers. at the end of the shoot, I was asked to sign an invoice, but not a release, and I asked who I needed to ask for my payment. The photographer said, "oh, you'll receive a check in the mail in about 60 days." I said EXCUSE ME? needless to say, I was quite upset that this was not told to me prior to driving 3 hours. I expressed my concern that I would not receive my check in the mail. The makeup artist told me that in the "real world of modeling", this is how models get paid (by a check in the mail). She said she has been modeling for 15 years and has never been paid cash at the beginning or end of a shoot. I find this hard to believe as I have been modeling for damn near 6 years and I have only been PAID BY CHECK ONCE, AND IT WAS HANDED TO ME BEFORE I LEFT THE SET!
HAS THIS HAPPENED TO ANYONE? IS THIS COMMON? WAS I SCAMMED? I was also told that I was the only model that had a problem with waiting 60 days for the check!....is this b/c the other models were told beforehand?
This company exists and I have all of the contact information.....is there anything I can do if I don't receive my check?
Thanks for all of your thoughts/advice! As a freelance model it is your responsibility to work out payment details before the shoot, and not just assume someone is going to give you an envelope full of cash. On a legitimate commercial shoot where a client or ad agency has hired the shooting team, everyone gets a cheque, and two months is reasonable. You should not expect that your payment will come out of petty cash; the person paying you, no matter who it is, has to do things by the book, including expenses and payroll, for tax purposes. An agent's 20% is to take care of all these details for you. The makeup artist is absolutely correct, but it it's a scam, you have only yourself to blame.
Model
Julia B
Posts: 73
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Thanks! That was exactly their explanation for why I would receive a check. I'm starting to think I did not get scammed, just made an ass out of myself for assuming about the payment. thanks alot!
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Amy J Jones Photography wrote:
A good agency will pay you out of their fund even if they get stiffed. Let's hold on for a second. I don't know of any agencies that do this. There are some that will advance payment to the models before collection from the client, but if the client doesn't pay, they want their money back.
To the OP: It is normal practice for commercial clients to pay in 45-60 days, and it is always by check.
Model
Danica Lee
Posts: 881
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
30 days is pretty typical on a commerical shoot here in AU. Sometimes we get paid by cheque but my agency deposits the money directly into your bank account because they client pays them first, they take their cut, then hand on the rest.
Photographer
Searcher
Posts: 775
New York, New York, US
This is normal for larger companies.
When I shoot with agency models I just sign their triplicate carbon voucher. The model gets a copy, the agency gets a copy, and sometimes the client gets a copy.
The agency then invoices the client, then the client pays the agency, and then the model gets their cut handed down from the agency.
Takes 30-60 days because it goes through beauracracies six times (agency, client, client's bank, agency's bank, agency, model's bank).
Photographer
Graham Walker
Posts: 116
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Julia B wrote:
and small claims court will just drain 8 hours out of my life, and they won't show up, so I will lose anyway Ah, excuse me but if the defendant doesn't show up to a small claims hearing then YOU win.
Photographer
Doug Lester
Posts: 10591
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Sorry but that's the way it's done in brick and mortar modeling and photography. Everyone waits for that check in the mail. Obviously I know nothing about the photographer or client you worked for, so I c ertainlyu can't vouch for them. But as a former commercial photographer, payment always came from 30 to 90 days afteer the shoot. On occasion a photographer might get an advance for out of pocket expenses, but waits for full payment, just like the model and others involved.
Only on then net are models paid the day of the shoot.
Photographer
MichaelO Digital Artist
Posts: 101
Clovis, California, US
Big companies I work with wait 30 days because they invest their money and they want to hold on to it as long as possible. For this amount of money, that doesn't make any sense.
If you don't get the money and you don't take legal action, you can at least inform all of us about who this compnay is so that we can ALL avoid them in the future.
Photographer
MirrorImage Photography
Posts: 430
Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, US
YOU WILL GET PAID!!! they don't need a model going around slandering them for $250.00 (think about it) that doesn't make any sense.... As a photographer i prefer getting paid immediately after a shoot (or before, even better) but sometimes in a commercial situation they will send me a check in the mail afterwards.......... good luck
Photographer
The German Woman
Posts: 1346
Berlin, Georgia, US
How can you have been modeling for 6 (!) years and never have been paid by check??????
That's how models get paid. That's how photographers get paid. And it is completely normal to wait for that check for about 2 months.
Photographer
The German Woman
Posts: 1346
Berlin, Georgia, US
Amy J Jones Photography wrote:
A good agency will pay you out of their fund even if they get stiffed. I've never heard of that. I've gotten advances from agencies when the client was taking his time but had the client not paid i would have owed the agency the money they gave me in advance.
Photographer
PhotographerShine
Posts: 35
Macomb, Illinois, US
Julia B wrote:
Yesterday I traveled about 3 hours away for a half day shoot at the flat rate of 250. I worked with what seemed to be a professional team of MakeUp artists and
HAS THIS HAPPENED TO ANYONE? IS THIS COMMON? WAS I SCAMMED? I was also
This company exists and I have all of the contact information.....is there anything I can do if I don't receive my check?
Thanks for all of your thoughts/advice! What a crock of crap,
The shoe on the other foot would be " Im sorry but you cant use these images untill i receive full payment for services."
Regardless of what they said , telling you to wait that long for a check in the mail does not sound normal or very good business practice.
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
PhotographerShine wrote:
Regardless of what they said , telling you to wait that long for a check in the mail does not sound normal or very good business practice. Let me guess: you aren't a commercial photographer, and don't do commercial jobs. That's the only way you could say that.
Model
Julia B
Posts: 73
Nashville, Tennessee, US
PhotographerShine wrote:
What a crock of crap,
The shoe on the other foot would be " Im sorry but you cant use these images untill i receive full payment for services."
Regardless of what they said , telling you to wait that long for a check in the mail does not sound normal or very good business practice. I hear you! I did at one point tell them to delete my images if I wasn't getting paid on the spot. They agreed that they would. Then I thought about the fact that I had not signed a release or been asked to sign one....and I would have driven a total of 6 hours and wasted the gas money plus the money I forked out to purchase a few items that I was told to bring to the shoot that I didn't all ready have. When they told me I was the only one who had an issue with waiting for the check, I thought, what the hell? I didn't get naked, or even close to naked, so I decided to take a chance. But it will hurt a little if I don't get paid....I've got a baby to provide for!
Model
Julia B
Posts: 73
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Annique Delphine wrote:
How can you have been modeling for 6 (!) years and never have been paid by check??????
That's how models get paid. That's how photographers get paid. And it is completely normal to wait for that check for about 2 months. I honestly have no idea. I was only paid once by check and it was handed to me before I left the set. I suppose it is because all of my paying assignments are set up through OMP or MM. I have done a few shoots locally through word of mouth and a telephone call, but 99% have been set up over the internet.
Model
Julia B
Posts: 73
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Turns out this was a scam? I talk to another girl on here who worked for the same client, and she received a bad check. This other girl also knows a few others who received bad checks as well. I tried to call the phone number on my invoice to inquire about my check, which I haven't received, and the company has moved offices. I was given an alternate phone number and when I called that, it was someone's cell phone. I left a message last week and haven't heard back. The client is "runbets.net". I checked their website and my images are nowhere to be seen. If anyone else gets an offer from them (they contacted me through OMP), of course, get the money up front or tell them to F*** OFF!
Photographer
Fotografia-di-Asia
Posts: 6118
Park City, Utah, US
wooo, it sucks. do the research first the next time. . .
Makeup Artist
Make Up By Tierra
Posts: 8
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Julia B wrote:
Thanks! That was exactly their explanation for why I would receive a check. I'm starting to think I did not get scammed, just made an ass out of myself for assuming about the payment. thanks alot! You sure did. lol
Hopefully you learned from this.
Photographer
stan wigmore photograph
Posts: 2397
Long Beach, California, US
Daniela V wrote:
Every time I waited for a check, I ended up waiting at least two months. Minimum.
Now I don't accept checks as I can't wait like that and sometimes, they bounce...and small claims court will just drain 8 hours out of my life, and they won't show up, so I will lose anyway.
-D Just fyi,taking someone to small claims court is not a waste of time,even if they don't show up.If they don't show you win automaticly and once you have a judgement from the court that gives you every legal right to garnish wages or any other type of income,take payment from bank accounts both checking and savings and place leins on any and all assets they hold.It may differ according to circumstances but our condo association has done it several times with owners who think they are untouchable
Model
Julia B
Posts: 73
Nashville, Tennessee, US
stan wigmore photograph wrote:
Just fyi,taking someone to small claims court is not a waste of time,even if they don't show up.If they don't show you win automaticly and once you have a judgement from the court that gives you every legal right to garnish wages or any other type of income,take payment from bank accounts both checking and savings and place leins on any and all assets they hold.It may differ according to circumstances but our condo association has done it several times with owners who think they are untouchable Thank you.....good info.
Model
Julia B
Posts: 73
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Made 2 Impress wrote:
You sure did. lol
Hopefully you learned from this. Actually, now the point has changed. I WAS scammed, or whatever you want to call it, it seems. I suppose I will find out for sure if and when my check arrives in the mail.
Photographer
Doug Vosler
Posts: 932
Redlands, California, US
This may have been said.. but many larger companies have accounting departments. It's not the job of the makeup artists to be handling that stuff.
Photographer
UnoMundo
Posts: 47532
Olympia, Washington, US
We all learn. I have rubber checks in my drawer. Now I ask money questions FIRST.
I dont shoot unless a release is signed.
I don't take checks from first time clients.
Photographer
Telephoto Studio
Posts: 1439
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
Julia B wrote:
Yesterday I traveled about 3 hours away for a half day shoot at the flat rate of 250. I worked with what seemed to be a professional team of MakeUp artists and photographers. at the end of the shoot, I was asked to sign an invoice, but not a release, and I asked who I needed to ask for my payment. The photographer said, "oh, you'll receive a check in the mail in about 60 days." I said EXCUSE ME? needless to say, I was quite upset that this was not told to me prior to driving 3 hours. I expressed my concern that I would not receive my check in the mail. The makeup artist told me that in the "real world of modeling", this is how models get paid (by a check in the mail). She said she has been modeling for 15 years and has never been paid cash at the beginning or end of a shoot. I find this hard to believe as I have been modeling for damn near 6 years and I have only been PAID BY CHECK ONCE, AND IT WAS HANDED TO ME BEFORE I LEFT THE SET!
HAS THIS HAPPENED TO ANYONE? IS THIS COMMON? WAS I SCAMMED? I was also told that I was the only model that had a problem with waiting 60 days for the check!....is this b/c the other models were told beforehand?
This company exists and I have all of the contact information.....is there anything I can do if I don't receive my check?
Thanks for all of your thoughts/advice! How did you get booked? Through an agency, or directly by a photographer who hired you from your MM profile? Was this for a real commercial shoot - for a paying client, or was this just some job that you were told you'ld get paid for and you didn't ask the terms? Typically, if it's a commercial job with a paying client, the client sends a representative or an art director or graphic designer along to supervise the shoot.
They only time I ever got paid at the end of a shoot by the person who hired me was when I was a freelance assistant. Now that I shoot on my own, I submit a bill net 30 or I get expenses in advance. It's very rare that the client pays me to pay the models in advance unless I have to get them myself and not go through an agency. If I end up having to pay models and/or assistants and have lots of expenses that I have to pay out of pocket, I get that advance.
And even if I don't have lots of up front expenses - I always ask for an advance when I work for a new client unless I know they have done work with other photographers I know and those guys got paid in a reasonable amount of time. Remember you are in a business and when you don't get paid up front - you are extending credit - make sure your client is credit worthy!
But now you know to ask for the terms of the job, and payment, up front before accepting a job.
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11987
Costa Mesa, California, US
For non OnLine model gigs 30-60-90 days is a normal pay time. Client gets the same and then the agency gets it. I had large jobs booked thru an agency take 4 months to pay. Only had two (out of hundreds) never pay. One filed bankruptcy and the other just said have my lawyer call his laywers.
Model
Julia B
Posts: 73
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Telephoto Studio wrote:
How did you get booked? Through an agency, or directly by a photographer who hired you from your MM profile? Was this for a real commercial shoot - for a paying client, or was this just some job that you were told you'ld get paid for and you didn't ask the terms? Typically, if it's a commercial job with a paying client, the client sends a representative or an art director or graphic designer along to supervise the shoot.
They only time I ever got paid at the end of a shoot by the person who hired me was when I was a freelance assistant. Now that I shoot on my own, I submit a bill net 30 or I get expenses in advance. It's very rare that the client pays me to pay the models in advance unless I have to get them myself and not go through an agency. If I end up having to pay models and/or assistants and have lots of expenses that I have to pay out of pocket, I get that advance.
And even if I don't have lots of up front expenses - I always ask for an advance when I work for a new client unless I know they have done work with other photographers I know and those guys got paid in a reasonable amount of time. Remember you are in a business and when you don't get paid up front - you are extending credit - make sure your client is credit worthy!
But now you know to ask for the terms of the job, and payment, up front before accepting a job. A model contacted me through OMP. She gave me the details of the shoot and put me in contact with the photographer. It was a corporate client, "Pari-Mutual Racing Games, Inc." There was a guy there who said he was from the accounting office. He explained to me why I would have to wait for a check. Basically, alot of the same things that I was told in this thread. The makeup artist seemed to be running the show, although they were very professional. I have seen stranger circumstances on a set.
They aren't using my images from what I see on the website. BUT I spent time and money driving 3 hours there and back, and I worked for that money. Of course, I want to get it due to my effort. Some of the other girls are all ready suing them, and I suppose I will too.
Photographer
Christopher Lewis
Posts: 220
Farmington Hills, Michigan, US
The question is - Is this outfit legit? This photographer's record wait is about 75 days for a check for a shot I took that used on a book cover, but by a major publisher. It was also the most that I earned for a single image.
Model
Carrie_K
Posts: 10053
Orlando, Florida, US
True agency bookings, I don't even worry about. I know I will be paid by the agency, by check, in about a month or two. And I've never had one bounce.
Internet bookings, I request payment the same day of the work. And I've had both private and corporate clients have no problem with this policy. However, I told them up front with plenty of time for them to cut the checks.
Photographer
BlackWatch
Posts: 3825
Cleveland, Ohio, US
I don't know much about the professional modeling world but in the business world you have cash flows to consider...if this photographer is a small business and someone else is paying him to do the shoot then he may need time to get his money from them to be able to pay you and all the other people involved...MUA...etc...He may not have the thousand or more dollars he needs to pay everyone at the set and can't just pay you and not them...he may be living paycheck to paycheck just like the rest of the world...
I wouldn't get overly concerned at this point. This is not anything out of the ordinary in the business world...when I bill people for my services I hope for 30 day turnaround but it's not uncommon for 60 days or more.
|