Shyly wrote:
It's hard to answer without knowing more about this specific situation.

Does she want to do TFP with you?  If her look won't benefit you, quote her your rates.

Does she want to hire you?  Keep quiet and do the best work you can with what you've got to work with.

Did she ask for your opinion on her chances of being the next big supermodel?  Then and only then should you offer her your thoughts.

Very well stated.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Maybe she isn't the model you typically like to shoot.
What is the typical model like anyways?
Besides if everyone that ever tried to do ANYTHING listened to anyone being judgmental then most photographers, make up artist or whomever wouldn't be doing what they love to do either.

Starting off with friends and family...how many times have people's family said that they wouldn't make any money or that it is not a relative job in the first place anyways.......

Do what you love and do it often..its what fullfills your soul that matters...
Unless your broke as hell and trying to make it your job...

John Jebbia wrote:
Keep my mouth shut and do my job. And then make the most of what I have to work with.

I did this at my last shoot. Afterwards I felt as though I let both the model and myself down for not being a little more assertive.

stan wigmore photograph wrote:
Not all modeling depends on looks alone,the old saying,"it ain't what you got,it's what you do with it" really does matter.

I like that :-)

Max Shafiq Photography wrote:
As a photographer should you tell the model to not give up her day time job?

No, keep it positive and tell her you're not shooting that style at this time.

C R Photography wrote:

No, keep it positive and tell her you're not shooting that style at this time.

BLEH!

Don't lie. Just don't be an ass about it.

I can't tell you the amount of times I've been told negative things.

It makes me a better model.

Farah Malika Images wrote:
To me there's room for almost anyone to model.  It just all depends on what area of modeling the woman is hopeful about.  If she's trying to fit into an area where she may not fit, then guide her into an area where she will stand a chance to fit.  Commercial modeling, parts modeling (if she has nice hands, legs, or feet), and acting is open to real life people of all sorts.  So try to encourage her to do that style of modeling and to consider acting if the modeling really seems far shot for her.  With commercial modeling, all you need is a good smile and character.

Nice answer, Farah!

I like an intelligent woman!

Damn, you are fine!

Daniela V wrote:

BLEH!

Don't lie. Just don't be an ass about it.

I can't tell you the amount of times I've been told negative things.

It makes me a better model.

I second this.

No matter how good the photographer, a crappy "model" is going to perform, er, crappily. Then, said model will be showing off her images with said photographer's name attached. Not all publicity is good publicity. Were I a fashion photographer, I wouldn't photograph models who I considered to be sub-par. I value the art more than that.

Farah Malika Images wrote:
To me there's room for almost anyone to model.  It just all depends on what area of modeling the woman is hopeful about.  If she's trying to fit into an area where she may not fit, then guide her into an area where she will stand a chance to fit.  Commercial modeling, parts modeling (if she has nice hands, legs, or feet), and acting is open to real life people of all sorts.  So try to encourage her to do that style of modeling and to consider acting if the modeling really seems far shot for her.  With commercial modeling, all you need is a good smile and character.

...very well thought and said.

darkfotoart wrote:
the quality of a model depends on what you need them for.  you may turn down a 6 foot 220 pound girl for a tfcd  shoot  , then i hire her and pay her $50 an hour.    its called audience.   the 7yo in a red top in my port i have sold as much as $160 in pics in 1 hour of her.  you probably wouldnt even want to shoot with her at all.   we all do different things , we all need different models.   have you ever put together a tea party shoot with ,  spodes tower or masons vista serving pieces.    just as you dont reconize those fine china company names , you wouldnt know what a good model for a shoot like that is because its not your area of interest.  ( im saying that as a point you actually might know how to do a shoot like that. )

I think it would be wise to assume for the purpose of this discussion that the hypothetical model is not "model material" for your purpose (be it fashion or a commercial advertisement for a roofing contractor).

I used fashion as my example because that's the kind of modeling I do.

If some fine china contacted you and that fine china had a big ol' crack in it, would you put it in your shot for your fine china tea-party? No.

Farah Malika Images wrote:
To me there's room for almost anyone to model.  ...

This is a nice generalization, but there's a bit more. No matter how bad you are in basketball, you can alway play basketball. Where do you want to play basketball? What if you always trip on your own feet and get hurt, foul constantly, miss passes and loose control of the ball?

Knew one model that joined an agency and came to me on a go see in order to test. She was tall, had small eyes, large nose and a very odd angular face. I have a very open minded idea of beauty and will test most models, but not her. Since she was from an agency that I work with regularly, this was very surprising. I suggested to her that for fashion and commercial work, she was not suitable. She was taken back by this and set out to prove me wrong. She manged to get one job - as a hand model, even though she had large knuckles. For the three years she stayed with the agency, she never got another job, then disappeared.

Jackie was another that I did test. She was a part time, private special care nurse (RN), one of the best and smartest I know. Large eyes, tall, slender, full & luscious head of hair and long legs. But she was very cerebral and was constantly reasoning her poses instead of "feeling" them out. So instead of a mood, she was creating awkward poses and her mind wouldn't let go. She wanted to be too much in conscious control of everything. Good for a nurse, bad for a model or actress. When I explained it to her, she understood perfectly and quit.

Lisa came to me with an bad book, but she had great bones and was very relaxed on testing. I changed her makeup and had Diego work on her hair. The head shot I did got her a catalog job and she caught on fast, but she had problems with her personal life. She suddenly got lots of bookings, but she wasn't too consistent. When she was in a good mood, she was terrific. But she could be a nightmare if things went wrong. By the end of the year almost no one would book her a second time.

I've also seen some advertising and commercial photographers that use beautiful lighting and have such great vision that you almost overlook the model. They aren't that important in the picture. Art photographers create art from the average, unique and even what you might call ugly people. But art photographers don't pay that much and there isn't a huge volume of work from them.

So yes, everyone can model. They may even earn from $50 to 20k a year. But very, very few will be capable of making 80k-200k that an good agency model can make in one year.

Farah Malika Images wrote:
To me there's room for almost anyone to model.  It just all depends on what area of modeling the woman is hopeful about.  If she's trying to fit into an area where she may not fit, then guide her into an area where she will stand a chance to fit.  Commercial modeling, parts modeling (if she has nice hands, legs, or feet), and acting is open to real life people of all sorts.  So try to encourage her to do that style of modeling and to consider acting if the modeling really seems far shot for her.  With commercial modeling, all you need is a good smile and character.

I keep saying that a bet was made that Rex Harrison couldn't turn "Lisa Doolitle" from a street merchant into a lady of refinement, with the proper clothes, a little work on her diction, and a nice hairdo.  Rex took the time, and won the bet.

He said: "By God, I thinks she's got it!!!!"   

Look deeper at the model, and size up what you can possibly do for her.

She won't have to talk, or sing, or dance, in your photos.

ravens laughter wrote:
You should send them my way.... I enjoy working with people who are not quite model material.

Or to me...

P.S> Everyone is beautiful to someone...maybe she'll have some nice pictures for her sweetie or her mom and dad...

ravens laughter wrote:
You should send them my way.... I enjoy working with people who are not quite model material.

Me too...although I'd qualify it by saying not quite agency model material.  The same planet--different worlds equation comes into play for me in that I'm not a professional photographer and so my interests and needs are different than a commercial photographer.

There are AMAZING models out there who aren't agency material.

Max Shafiq Photography wrote:
OK here is a scenario I would like to hear other peoples opinion on. A model shows up/contacts you and wants to do a shoot. But they are not quite 'model material'. What do you say to them if anything?

As a model would you expect the photographer to tell you?
As a photographer should you tell the model to not give up her day time job?

Thx
Max

you would ignore them. Thats the nice way to go about it.

Dont tell them that they look like they have downs syndrome, i know of one photographer who tells girls that (even though the girls he shoots look more "downs" than the ones he rejects)