Posted by Joe K. Perez: 
...what would it be?

I'd click my heels three times and make it so that every odd numbered year, commercial clients are required to use local talent first before looking elsewhere. Also, they can't use the same photographer more than once for that year. That's so each registered photographer (amateur and pro alike), will have a crack at showcasing their skills and talent. Then, I'd impose a union rate schedule so that photographers are ensured a salary commensurate to their skill category, i.e. amateur, semi-pro, pro. The even numbered years are to give back decision making control to the same clients...to avoid a rebellion. *grin*

Basically, the goal is to make it easier for both models and photographers to obtain corporate level commercial shooting experience and resume material.

The hairs on the back of my neck are going up. So you want me  with 28yrs to be on the same level field as beginners when it comes to corporate work....don't think it's going to happen in my life time. Remember we are all at different levels of experiences and clients pay us for our knowledge more than just the toys we play with. So you want my creative fees to be the same as someone with just 6 months of shoots with a digital camera and has no knowledge of end usage of images or copyrights to work created by....I am not giving up my years of court dates over selling my work or having someone say ...you can only charge this fee becasue someone in another part of the country.....will call me old fashion....experience with understanding your client is one reason I am hired..not the  toys of a digital age

Posted by Alex Alexander: 
....experience with understanding your client is one reason I am hired..not the  toys of a digital age

Siskel & Ebert (& Roeper) and I give you all thumbs up!

Posted by Alex Alexander: 

Posted by Joe K. Perez: 
...what would it be?

I'd click my heels three times and make it so that every odd numbered year, commercial clients are required to use local talent first before looking elsewhere. Also, they can't use the same photographer more than once for that year. That's so each registered photographer (amateur and pro alike), will have a crack at showcasing their skills and talent. Then, I'd impose a union rate schedule so that photographers are ensured a salary commensurate to their skill category, i.e. amateur, semi-pro, pro. The even numbered years are to give back decision making control to the same clients...to avoid a rebellion. *grin*

Basically, the goal is to make it easier for both models and photographers to obtain corporate level commercial shooting experience and resume material.

The hairs on the back of my neck are going up. So you want me  with 28yrs to be on the same level field as beginners when it comes to corporate work....don't think it's going to happen in my life time. Remember we are all at different levels of experiences and clients pay us for our knowledge more than just the toys we play with. So you want my creative fees to be the same as someone with just 6 months of shoots with a digital camera and has no knowledge of end usage of images or copyrights to work created by....I am not giving up my years of court dates over selling my work or having someone say ...you can only charge this fee becasue someone in another part of the country.....will call me old fashion....experience with understanding your client is one reason I am hired..not the  toys of a digital age

Look on the bright side. It's only on odd numbered years and only in a thread. *grin* Besides, we haven't really flushed out the fantasy rate schedule yet did we? *wink wink*

Posted by Ian Powell: 
to be able to get scary people and preditors of all kinds out of the buisness

Posted by Mark Edwards: 
A short rope and a tall tree would be best against them.  They're evil and make us all look bad.

But Mark, I hate Trees! And rope gives me those nasty burns.. Issss hursss precious    isss hursssss.....

Posted by Ty Simone: 

Posted by Mark Edwards: 
A short rope and a tall tree would be best against them.  They're evil and make us all look bad.

But Mark, I hate Trees! And rope gives me those nasty burns.. Issss hursss precious    isss hursssss.....

Posted by Mark Edwards: 
I was speaking more of the predators than anything else. 

Posted by Ty Simone: 

Posted by Mark Edwards: 
A short rope and a tall tree would be best against them.  They're evil and make us all look bad.

But Mark, I hate Trees! And rope gives me those nasty burns.. Issss hursss precious    isss hursssss.....

Oh. I am safe than... Ithink I am more prey than predator nowaday... Marriage does that to you :-)

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
I'd like to make everyone in this business -- photographers, models, muas, everyone just CHILL OUT and RELAX.  If we could just evaporate all the ego, paranoia, jealousy and the general "I have to screw you before you screw me" vibe, the quality of the work we do would increase exponentially.

Posted by Mark Edwards: 
I'll drink to that, Melvin !  (and I don't drink anymore)

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
I'd like to make everyone in this business -- photographers, models, muas, everyone just CHILL OUT and RELAX.  If we could just evaporate all the ego, paranoia, jealousy and the general "I have to screw you before you screw me" vibe, the quality of the work we do would increase exponentially.

Joe K. Perez wrote:
...what would it be?

I'd click my heels three times and make it so that every odd numbered year, commercial clients are required to use local talent first before looking elsewhere. Also, they can't use the same photographer more than once for that year. That's so each registered photographer (amateur and pro alike), will have a crack at showcasing their skills and talent. Then, I'd impose a union rate schedule so that photographers are ensured a salary commensurate to their skill category, i.e. amateur, semi-pro, pro. The even numbered years are to give back decision making control to the same clients...to avoid a rebellion. *grin*

Basically, the goal is to make it easier for both models and photographers to obtain corporate level commercial shooting experience and resume material.

how about the same rule for every occupation.  Your brain surgeon for example....You don't get to choose, you get the guy operating on you whose "turn" it is to be in the lime light, never mind that he graduated the very day he's operating on your tumor


The free market system works well, the best get the best jobs and the best pay, they are rewarded and compensated for being the best, being the best is hard work, hard work should pay off.

The large companies do often use local photographers, makeup artists etc.  Hewlett Packard is in San Diego, they almost always use San Diego people.  We have a few large costume catalogs here, always using local people.  New Balance shot in San Diego, they flew the photographer out but eveyone else was local.....Dupont did a huge campaign here, the shots can be seen on billboards in Times Square....they used all local talent in San Diego including a local photographer.  It's only the companies that come here to shoot (from somewhere else) they someimes fly a photographer out, and when they do, they usually fly out a photographer local to the base of the company.

Joe K. Perez wrote:
If there was one thing you could change in the industry......what would it be?

Well you didn't list one thing hehe but sure I'll play

1. Every industry has it's quirks. Actual skill, talent, hard work, dedication, education, experience, etc. do not matter. I wish they did.

2. I'd rather see models who are realistic, natural, and healthy. I don't want every model to be 6' and weigh 100 lbs. People get depressed and do things that harm themselves to be that way. I don't want every model to be 4' and weigh 400 lbs. That's not healthy either! Models inspire and I'd like that inspiration to be something that encourages to be healthy. Healthy mentally, emotionally, and physically.

3. I wish I only received legit and honest communication. Do what you say and say what you do.

These sound good to me too, reduced for consideration of attention spans

mark edwards wrote:
I would require a reasonable amount of civility in communications.  Photographers and Models (regardless of their level of success) would be required to treat each other with respect.
1.) don't make rude comments about their work or their body.
2.) keep the appointments we make,(weather paid or not)
3.)  More accountability for no-show

ian powell wrote:
get preditors of all kinds out of the buisness

ty simone wrote:
I would make me the highest paid [model] in the world....
Then I could retire after a year and become a hobbyist again......
On a more serious note. Instant agency status for all models when they start
Oh and you must use agency models and talent only.
No loopholes allowed! :-P

mary wrote:
The free market system works well, the best get the best jobs and the best pay, they are rewarded and compensated for being the best, being the best is hard work, hard work should pay off.

Joe K. Perez wrote:
...what would it be?

I'd click my heels three times and make it so that every odd numbered year, commercial clients are required to use local talent first before looking elsewhere. Also, they can't use the same photographer more than once for that year. That's so each registered photographer (amateur and pro alike), will have a crack at showcasing their skills and talent. Then, I'd impose a union rate schedule so that photographers are ensured a salary commensurate to their skill category, i.e. amateur, semi-pro, pro. The even numbered years are to give back decision making control to the same clients...to avoid a rebellion. *grin*

Basically, the goal is to make it easier for both models and photographers to obtain corporate level commercial shooting experience and resume material.

Photographic socialism? I don't think so.

Some tips from an 'old fart' retired commercial photographer. Live in a major market city, one of the places where significant corporate work is done. Just like models, a photographer wil not get commercial work without being where commercial work is done. Build a great 'book' targeted toward the sort of work you are after. If you want to get small product work, dont show food or glamour shots, show the best small product work the potential client has ever seen. Build a separate book for each type of work you want to get. Build a new set of books every year, or even every six months, to a potential client never sees the same shot twice. Spend a significant portion of your time marketing, then market some more. If you have a choice between sleeping or marketing, do the marketing. It's more important! Send monthly mailings to every potential client you are after, after arranging a portfolio showing. Post cards with an image are great for follow up.  But never the sme image twice!

A good salesman who is a mediocre photographer will have a better chance of success in photography than a great photographer who is a lousy salesman. Study a couple of the books on sales by Zig Zeigler and on guerilla marketing.

That's the key to success, not socialism for photographers.

Mark H. Edwards wrote:
If I could change ANYTHING about the industry I would require a reasonable amount of civility in communications.  Photographers and Models (regardless of their level of success) would be required to treat each other with respect.

1.) If you don't want to work with someone, find a POLITE way to tell them so, don't make rude comments about their work or their body.

2.) Create and enforce a policy that requires all of us too keep the appointments we make,(weather paid or not) and if we MUST break them, a VALID reason must be given.
(I forgot is NOT a valid reason ! )

3.)  More accountability (ie: enforceable penalties) for models or photographers who no-show.  If there is a price to be paid for it, maybe fewer would do it.  It would serve to weed out the ones who engage in this regularly.

4.)  If you postpone a shoot and offer a re-schedule, you MUST keep in contact and re-schedule in a timely manner.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong

I'll throw in with this list - its a good one.

Joe K. Perez wrote:
Same here you two * toasts with his morning cup o Joe *

*pops the cork on the champage*

Mary wrote:
...(snipped)...
how about the same rule for every occupation.  Your brain surgeon for example....You don't get to choose, you get the guy operating on you whose "turn" it is to be in the lime light, never mind that he graduated the very day he's operating on your tumor

See? Now, that's a very good example of why an idea such as the one I put forth needs to be hashed out. I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable with a newbee poking around in my coconut.

But then, that's an extreme comparison. A magazine client can fix mistakes caused by a newbee photographer before the magazine is published. A Doctor, no matter how much experience, or armed with technology, can't fix a damaged brain caused by a newbee Doctor. Once the damage is done, it's irreversible. Depending on the damage of course. Gold ring accidentally dropped in the skull? No prob...extract. Link in brain that controls the central nervous system severed? Deep doodoo.

Doug Lester wrote:

Photographic socialism? I don't think so.

Some tips from an 'old fart' retired commercial photographer. Live in a major market city, one of the places where significant corporate work is done. Just like models, a photographer wil not get commercial work without being where commercial work is done. Build a great 'book' targeted toward the sort of work you are after. If you want to get small product work, dont show food or glamour shots, show the best small product work the potential client has ever seen. Build a separate book for each type of work you want to get. Build a new set of books every year, or even every six months, to a potential client never sees the same shot twice. Spend a significant portion of your time marketing, then market some more. If you have a choice between sleeping or marketing, do the marketing. It's more important! Send monthly mailings to every potential client you are after, after arranging a portfolio showing. Post cards with an image are great for follow up.  But never the sme image twice!

A good salesman who is a mediocre photographer will have a better chance of success in photography than a great photographer who is a lousy salesman. Study a couple of the books on sales by Zig Zeigler and on guerilla marketing.

That's the key to success, not socialism for photographers.

Definitely no argument there. Perhaps the idea could apply just to a small segment of the market and for willing participants. Perhaps, they might view it as ensuring diversity in talent and the quality of content. I dunno. Though, the thought and the results is amusing to consider and hash out just a bit.

Visual Mindscapes wrote:
I would go back in time when models would have to pay photographers.  Back before all this TFP and paying models crap.

Heyyyyyyyy TFPS Is actually how I got my start in modeling.
But I totally understand ya gotta make a living somehow!!

BarbieClaudiah***

I would go back in time when models would have to pay photographers.  Back before all this TFP and paying models crap.

My clients still pay me...if you want models to pay you, go to models that actually make money doing what they do, not some girl who has plenty of dreams about being a model but is short on clues.

That's so each registered photographer (amateur and pro alike), will have a crack at showcasing their skills and talent.

Getting your work in front of those people isn't as hard as you're trying to make it sound...unless you mean by "showcasing" you mean getting paid commercial work even if you aren't the best qualified for the job?

The industry itself has problems, but most apparent in my mind is the SIDE industry and those that prey on attractive girls who don't have what it takes to be models by charging them for portfolio work, or even those who do it for free but encourage starving college women to pursue their goals no matter what...sure, it doesn't matter that you're 5'6", you can be a model, I just need your credit card number.

Andy

Visual Mindscapes wrote:
I would go back in time when models would have to pay photographers.  Back before all this TFP and paying models crap.

*sigh* the good 'ol days, huh.....

AlexAlexander/Moderator wrote:

The hairs on the back of my neck are going up. So you want me  with 28yrs to be on the same level field as beginners when it comes to corporate work....don't think it's going to happen in my life time. Remember we are all at different levels of experiences and clients pay us for our knowledge more than just the toys we play with. So you want my creative fees to be the same as someone with just 6 months of shoots with a digital camera and has no knowledge of end usage of images or copyrights to work created by....I am not giving up my years of court dates over selling my work or having someone say ...you can only charge this fee becasue someone in another part of the country.....will call me old fashion....experience with understanding your client is one reason I am hired..not the  toys of a digital age

Whoa. I understand that 100% and I won't argue with it.

Agony Bliss wrote:
How about an ego-richter scale.
Too much ego..work at Mccdonalds for a year!
A litle ego is confidence..too much is just damn annnoying whether your a model or a photographer

I worked at McD's for two years. I can make a mean coke float.