Sleepy Weasel wrote:
Yes - to all of the above.  Every shoot I've done so far, except one, the one location was suitable for the pics I wanted and the ones the model wanted. First time the shoot was in 2 different places. Maybe there's still a chance to shoot with her - who knows. She was a great model and one of the prettiest I've been able to work with.

BTW, the model that stood me up this weekend (who is an MM model! gasp!)--well, I sent an email to her about me not wanting to work with her anymore since she seems to have a habit of agreeing to a shoot the day of, or day before, then disappearing. I checked into the email string we had last year and she confirmed the morning of the shoot. Then I didn't hear form her again for 2 days. Family emergency. Funny thing is the night before our shoot, she messaged me about how she didn't get my call because she was at a piano bar. Apparently the family problem didn't affect her night off fun.

The way some people function - freaking hilarious.

Nice guys don't finish last, so long as they learn from their mistakes.

Jose Luis wrote:
Nice photographers do long posts- can we get the cliff notes on this one?  :-)

A model agreed to do a trade with me, so I did her pics, but se backed out of doing "my" shoot twice now. She wants to recovene in 3 weeks, but weather will likely be too cold and I think it's her way of weaseling out of my shoot, now that she has the pics from me she really wanted.

Secondary rant was about a model that stood me up last year and did the same thing again ths weekend, with similar excuses. See above post for result of that storyline.

JamesPhotography wrote:
I know it sucks bro....but in this business you just have to get used to it. i've taken girls out shopping for a shoot spent over $100 on outfits and shoes and the girl just blows me off afterward. i've had girls late for shoots (paid shoots) several hours! but all you can do is hide it in and smile politly. otherwise your just going to piss off the model..she'll either leave or you'll get abunch of horrible angery shots. i know its just not cool...but we need them. thats all there is to it. If you cant deal with the stress your in the wrong business.

James

This is so amusing......

First spending over a hundred dollars....jeezzz....what can that get you?....here it's barely enough to buy a pair of shoes....LOL.....seriously, why would you spend any money at all for a models clothes?.......would she spend money on buying your photo gear?.....

Did it ever occur to anyone that there actually are women out there who will "take advantage" of situations like this for personal gain.....GEEEE!....I think I've been around long enough to understand the world is full of people who just wait for the "Mr Nice Guy" to come along......If I need special clothes for a shoot.....I buy them and keep them......they go into my wardrobe should I need them again....not on some 19 year who needs new club wear.

And when a model comes late....I don't mean 15 minutes late but LATE....an hour or more.....by then my equipment is already back in it's case and packed in my car.....so bye, bye.....models should understand in the "REAL" world.....when it's a paid shoot....time is money and clients DON'T wait.....perhaps when a model shows up late a few times and there is no one there to greet her she might just get the hint to be on time more often.......and you don't NEED a model.....not any one particular model anyway.....there are hundreds of models out there and some actually like their work and will show up on time and act professionally......at least the ones who want a career in modeling. Expand your search past the divas......

"Piss of the model"....LOL......that's a good one. You better grow some new ones my friend......if that's what you're afraid of give up photography......frankly I don't work with pissed off models......and if I piss them off......tough.....either myself or my clients write the checks so get over it......if a client pisses me off.....I don't work for them.....but I certainly don't work and "show my anger".......that is childish!

Sleepy Weasel wrote:
I don't know if I was burned on a manipulative level, or just circumstance, but I'm really irritated. I'm giving the model the benefit of the doubt right now, so this is not a slam against her.

The only shoots I've really done are TFCD, and the "trade" part of TFCD has been just that - a trade of pics I want and some pics the model wants. Lately, I've been focusing on projects shoots (specific ideas or locations I wanted to shoot) since I don't need anymore headshots, casual, fashion, etc. So when I've worked with models that wants the latter, we do a trade (I do her shots, she does mine). Well, I think my trust has been infiltrated.

I contacted a model that wanted new shots for her port. I agreed to help her get some new headshots, fashion, glamour, etc. and she was going to help me on a project at a different location. Additionally, she was bringing a friend who she was trying to break into modelling and asked if I could also get some shots of her, too. Sure--why not.

So we planned a day to do both shoots. I take Sunday morning off away from my family, thinking I'm getting to finally do a shot I've been planning for months and couldn't find a model for. Me, her, and her friend do the shoot over 2-3 hours, seem to have a good time, all is well. SO we wrap up and talk about driving out to the other spot for my project and she says he's worn out and can we reschedule. Of course this takes me by surprise, but I'm not a slavedriver so I say sure. Within days, SHE picks the day and time to do the shoot.

The night before the shoot, she finally calls me back (after emails and messages from days before). She says she's been doing a lot of shoots lately and has a bunch of pictures, and also realizes she wants to lose a bit of weight before doing anymore shoots (she seemed just fine to me). She asks if we can push the shoot out at least 3 weeks. 3 WEEKS. This is an outdoor shoot in Denver--at which I need it to be at least 45-50 degrees outside for this idea, and the location is an area that could be ripped up for redevelopment at any time (if it hasn't already), and she wants to blow off the shoot until mid-November (not to mention my family is trying to sell our house and move within the next 4 weeks or so).

I explain this all to her and that when the weather is good, we should take advantage of it because it'll be too cold to do the shoot in 3 weeks (it's already borderline weather this time of year as it is), and I'd really like to do the shoot as planned (the following day). She tells me she just can't do it and can will get in touch with me again in 3 weeks (which I know she won't).

Does this sound like a "I already got the pics out of you that I wanted for free, and got some for my freind while I was at it, so I'm done here," or an honest case of exhaustion/self-esteem issues regarding her weight?  I'd like to have faith in people, but something inside me thinks she's got her free pics (already sent her the CD) and is weaseling out of her half of the trade we agreed to.

Half of me is pissed for feeling taken advantage of (wasting my Sunday morning and all post-processing time editing pics I didn't need for my port in the first place for her AND her friend), and the other half of me is pissed because I may lose this unique location and the (what I think is a) cool shoot idea permanently. Also throw in the time I spent buying clothing items for this shoot.

Needless to say, I'm done doing favors for models until I get my half of the trade.  The flake factor I've encountered recently has been astronomical (I'm talking SEVEN models in the past month that committed to shoots/dates, then suddenly turn into classless people that decide they don't want to return emails or calls anymore without explanation). 

A few weeks ago I proposed an idea to a model that stiffed me last year, but I thought I'd give her another shot. She liked the idea and we scheduled the date. Of course, she disappears for 2 weeks. So the day before we were to shoot, I email her to cancel the shoot. Within hours, she magically responds how she doesn't want to cancel the shoot. So I say fine, we're still on. We were supposed to shoot yesterday, and guess what, not a peep from her. This is exactly what she did to me last time. And oh yeah, her son was in the hospital, she's been really busy, blah, blah, blah. Last year it was a family emergency, which incidently didn't stop her from going out for a night of fun the previous night.

Man, this is pissing me off again. I thought these rants were supposed to make me feel better!

Yep, she took advantage of you.
Typical of internet models with their "get what you wnat and give nothing in return" attitude.
Just chalk it up to experience and move on.
Some day she wil need something from you and then you'll be in a position to determine a course of action.
It's par for the course.

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
I have four rolls of undeveloped film that have been sitting on my desk since spring as a testimonial to a model who thought I was a sucker.  She was trying to get something for nothing, but i'd rather throw the film away than be a doormat.  If you haven't giver her or her "friend" any images yet -- don't.

For some reason, I already sent her the CD. Probably because I'm anl and it was finished and sitting on my desk and wanted to get it out of here. I *should* have just said "I'll give it to you at the shoot," but thast can go either way, also. I still haven't retouched her freind's images, but she said I could give them to her at the next shoot, so I have to think there was some intent to actually go--unless they hadn't really communicated.

Man, we need to come up with a math equation for this.

JamesPhotography wrote:
I know it sucks bro....but in this business you just have to get used to it. i've taken girls out shopping for a shoot spent over $100 on outfits and shoes and the girl just blows me off afterward. i've had girls late for shoots (paid shoots) several hours! but all you can do is hide it in and smile politly. otherwise your just going to piss off the model..she'll either leave or you'll get abunch of horrible angery shots. i know its just not cool...but we need them. thats all there is to it. If you cant deal with the stress your in the wrong business.

James

Not sure this really applies to me. I have a regular full time job and consider myself "in training" to get better at this. So right now, I make sure I only do projects that I *want* to do o that sound fun. It's not a job for me, and I don't treat it that way, so there isn't really much stress to begin with. The better word is frustration.  I've always fulfilled me end of the deal with models and shoots, so I expect the same.  I'm sure I've pissed off a few models that had that princess attitude or were just plain weird--too bad. I've got plenty of good models that would put in a good word for me to back up the decent reputation I feel I've earned.

I feel hen it comes to reliable, trustworthy photographers, THEY need us just as badly.

Star wrote:
You still own the copyright to those images, just inform MM, and any other site she or her friend puts them on, that they do not have permission from you to post the photos and that they are in copyright violation.

Inform her that you will give her limited copyright to the first set when and if she completes the second set with you or pays you your day rate for the first set,

Star

Oh snap...Star's laying the smackdown. Why did I just say that? I don't even know what that means.

Sleepy Weasel wrote:
Star - the release didn't specify which shoot covered what since we planned on doing both the same day, so not sure I could impose any demands after the fact. I actually emailed her frend and told her I won't have her images for awhile because now I have to spend my free time finding a replacement for the shoot her friend cancelled.

This is what I get for trusting people - which I do very rarely anyway. :-D

If you did not sign a release to her than she has no rights to the images,

Star

Sleepy Weasel wrote:
My standard release says she can use images for promotion only (non-commercial use).

A contract is meaningless until you receive compensation.  It's a neat little technicality built into our legal system to prevent people from doing stupid things like signing themselves into slavery or signing away their services for free.

If the agreed compensation for her being able to use the images was that she participate in your shoot, and she hasn't provided said compensation, then the contract, to the best of my understanding, is null and void.

That's why it's standard practice if you're doing street photography or something and getting a release to give the person a dollar.  It makes sure you take care of that loophole.

http://www.danheller.com/model-release.html#6.5

Tony Lawrence wrote:
First you did the honorable and cool thing.  You gave her what you promised.

For the umpteenth time, there is nothing "cool" or "honorable" about letting someone screw you over.  I do strictly TFP and I know that much.  I wonder how you pros would feel if clients just decided not to pay you for work you've already done.  This situation is no different.

Sleepy Weasel wrote:
MINOR UPDATE:

I decided to email the model and let her know how I felt about not being able to do the shoot, and she replied. She DOES want to try the shoot, but the new shot I was going to try involved some nudity (which it originally didn't). Something happened to her recently that made her self-conscious about her weight, and she was really worried about posing nude at the time (I don't know all the details, but it had something to do with comments made to her by a photographer--I don't know in what context).

However, it looks as though we may try the shoot this week.

Hmm, sounds like you might have changed the details of the shoot on her after the fact...  maybe that had something to do with the reluctance?  She still should have been up front with you about it, but that's one detail you didn't originally mention.

Has the snow cleared off your location, hopefully?  I left Denver in one blizzard a coupleof weeks ago, and I know there's been another one since!  lol

-T-

Thomas Oed wrote:
Hmm, sounds like you might have changed the details of the shoot on her after the fact...  maybe that had something to do with the reluctance?  She still should have been up front with you about it, but that's one detail you didn't originally mention.

Has the snow cleared off your location, hopefully?  I left Denver in one blizzard a coupleof weeks ago, and I know there's been another one since!  lol

-T-

Got the shoot done - she was great. I changed the details of the shoot, but it had nothing to do with her wanting to do or not do the shoot. I wouldn't call it a misunderstanding, but I think a lack of understanding how I had an urgent priority in completing the shoot at the location. But all is good, I got the shot I wanted (and a cute glamour shot of her in addition), weather was great, no one bothered us, and we might even do another shoot in the future.

Sleepy Weasel wrote:

Got the shoot done - she was great. I changed the details of the shoot, but it had nothing to do with her wanting to do or not do the shoot. I wouldn't call it a misunderstanding, but I think a lack of understanding how I had an urgent priority in completing the shoot at the location. But all is good, I got the shot I wanted (and a cute glamour shot of her in addition), weather was great, no one bothered us, and we might even do another shoot in the future.

Wow, good to hear it!  I've had that happen once or twice myself, where I'd pretty much given up on someone, and they came storming back and redeemed themselves!!  lol  Too bad it far more often doesn't turn out that way.

How was the weather? Where was your location?  Somewhere downtown?

Oh, and now that you can give the model a glowing report, who is she?!?  ; )

I used to live in Denver, and still get back there fairly often, so I'm, always looking for good people to work with.