Im'age NY (INY) wrote:
Seeing that your into the bondage genre... if she called you before your shoot with her, and she told you she couldn't make it... she was "tied up"... how would you take that???

If it were me I'd realize she was a rude bitch and wouldn't bother trying to work with her again.

Saryn Angel wrote:

Why would anyone agree to model for someone who's work they don't find appealing? It doesn't make sense... Just say no in the beginning?  Why cancel?

Well the OP said that some of the work in her port was about the quality of his, so perhaps she doesn't find it unappealing but just got an offer that she found more appealing. Besides...while I didn't cancel on any of these people, I've agreed to shoot with photographers whose work I didn't think was up to the level of the rest of my port just because people have paid me the same kindness, and I like to give others what people have given to me...spreading the love...you know? Perhaps the model was just trying to help out the OP and changed her mind. Who knows...either way...it's possible.

Saryn Angel wrote:
Why would anyone agree to model for someone who's work they don't find appealing? It doesn't make sense... Just say no in the beginning?  Why cancel?

K Lara wrote:
I've agreed to shoot with photographers whose work I didn't think was up to the level of the rest of my port just because people have paid me the same kindness, and I like to give others what people have given to me...spreading the love...you know? Perhaps the model was just trying to help out the OP and changed her mind. Who knows...either way...it's possible.

Kait, apparently you and I are the only members of this entire site who were ever beginners in any way, shape or fashion.  Everybody else here was brilliant from the word go, so they don't understand what you're saying.

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:

Saryn Angel wrote:
Why would anyone agree to model for someone who's work they don't find appealing? It doesn't make sense... Just say no in the beginning?  Why cancel?

Kait, apparently you and I are the only members of this entire site who were ever beginners in any way, shape or fashion.  Everybody else here was brilliant from the word go, so they don't understand what you're saying.

Lol...oh yeah...I forgot about that...lol...so Melvin...when are we going to shoot?!? I can't wait any longer...I'm going to explode...and you're not even going to be here to photograph it!

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:

Saryn Angel wrote:
Why would anyone agree to model for someone who's work they don't find appealing? It doesn't make sense... Just say no in the beginning?  Why cancel?

Kait, apparently you and I are the only members of this entire site who were ever beginners in any way, shape or fashion.  Everybody else here was brilliant from the word go, so they don't understand what you're saying.

Ouch why do you have to lump everyone into one pot?? Not everyone ELSE on the site thinks they are better than anyone else.

Meela

Meela wrote:
Ouch why do you have to lump everyone into one pot?? Not everyone ELSE on the site thinks they are better than anyone else.

Meela

Don't worry...it's very obvious that you're not one of those people ...sadly...they are far too common these days. We were just kidding...I don't know about Melvin, but I personally think you seem like a great gal.

Meela wrote:

Ouch why do you have to lump everyone into one pot?? Not everyone ELSE on the site thinks they are better than anyone else.

Meela

Sorry...there was a lot of 'tude on the first page of this thread and it just got under my skin for a second.

Tape Her Up wrote:
There's a model I would like to shoot with who has done bondage before.  She was supposed to come to Philly over the summer and we were going to shoot then.  She didn't come and didn't bother to let me know she wasn't coming until after the date of the shoot.  Then a few weeks ago she again said she was coming to Philly.  I tried to set something up with her then and once again, she didn't come to Philly and didn't let me know she wasn't coming until the day of the shoot.  We spoke on the phone that day and set up a future date in December--etched in stone and all.  I get an e-mail from her tonight saying she might not be coming after all because of another gig, can we reschedule?  At first I said okay, but it occurs to me that this is the third shoot she's canceled on me and why the hell should I give her a chance to cancel on me yet again?  I've turned down shoots to work with this model and she's canceled out.  I don't know...should I just tell her to kiss off or what?  If she comes, she'll probably do good on my site, but I'm sick of the cancellation game.   Anyone have any thoughts?

Are you paying her? What's the benefit she gets of shooting with you? I'm not saying this to be nasty, but if you're shooting her TFP and a paid gig comes up...what do you think she should do?

Money talks, which is something hardly anyone seems to understand.

Now...if you ARE paying for her, and you want her on your site (which it seems that you really really do, or else you wouldn't put up with this sh^t), then state that if she cancels a third time, the shoot will be strictly TFP. And you'll need a deposit.

-D

Saryn Angel wrote:

Why would anyone agree to model for someone who's work they don't find appealing? It doesn't make sense... Just say no in the beginning?  Why cancel?

Its about money, thats why. I wouldn't agree to shoot with anyone on a TFP basis that I didn't think could enhance my portfolio or was a GOOD friend (I did that once... and probably won't do it again since the promise of catalog work was never fullfilled, neither was the promise of prints *shrugs*). However, I shoot with LOTS of people who's work I could care less about. The difference is in the paycheck. I'll do a lot of things because its paying work.

As for the above reference to the quality of his work: Again, this is a GENRE of photography. There is a LARGE appeal for "amateur" type shots like this of women in "distress." The people that enjoy viewing this type of work often get off on the fact that it appears very realistic due to the quality of the work and the often cliche scenarios. He obviously enjoys shooting in that style, and so he does. He's obviously successful within this genre of work, and I dare say he's likely making money off of it as well. Thats likely more than many people on this site can say of their work. Stop "critiqueing" his images, thats not the point of the post.

NC17 wrote:
As for the above reference to the quality of his work: Again, this is a GENRE of photography. There is a LARGE appeal for "amateur" type shots like this of women in "distress." The people that enjoy viewing this type of work often get off on the fact that it appears very realistic due to the quality of the work and the often cliche scenarios. He obviously enjoys shooting in that style, and so he does. He's obviously successful within this genre of work, and I dare say he's likely making money off of it as well. Thats likely more than many people on this site can say of their work. Stop "critiqueing" his images, thats not the point of the post.

Hear, hear.  All the DID [Damsel In Distress] shooters I know have one thing in common -- they all make a lot of money from their work.  Maybe all the people taking shots at the OP are a little jealous.

Tape Her Up wrote:
There's a model I would like to shoot with who has done bondage before.  She was supposed to come to Philly over the summer and we were going to shoot then.  She didn't come and didn't bother to let me know she wasn't coming until after the date of the shoot.  Then a few weeks ago she again said she was coming to Philly.  I tried to set something up with her then and once again, she didn't come to Philly and didn't let me know she wasn't coming until the day of the shoot.  We spoke on the phone that day and set up a future date in December--etched in stone and all.  I get an e-mail from her tonight saying she might not be coming after all because of another gig, can we reschedule?  At first I said okay, but it occurs to me that this is the third shoot she's canceled on me and why the hell should I give her a chance to cancel on me yet again?  I've turned down shoots to work with this model and she's canceled out.  I don't know...should I just tell her to kiss off or what?  If she comes, she'll probably do good on my site, but I'm sick of the cancellation game.   Anyone have any thoughts?

I'm afraid I'm on the "kiss off" side. My rule is one strike and I want a good reason and a promise it will not happen again before I'll schedule a second shoot.  Two strikes and she's out, permanently. I have neither the time nor the inclination to put up with either attitude or theatrics.  No shows are positive proof the 'model' does not consider the shoot. me or my time to be of any importance.

Doug Lester wrote:

I'm afraid I'm on the "kiss off" side. My rule is one strike and I want a good reason and a promise it will not happen again before I'll schedule a second shoot.  Two strikes and she's out, permanently. I have neither the time nor the inclination to put up with either attitude or theatrics.  No shows are positive proof the 'model' does not consider the shoot. me or my time to be of any importance.

Yup, no-show/no-call is about the worst thing a model can do--except, perhaps, stealing from the photographer or shooting him!  I rarely give second chances, as I do not recall a model ever being dependable on the second time.

CL Photography wrote:
I just had a cancellation now!

I don't know what these people think.  When you set up a shoot people set whole schedules aside make arraingements including other people like make up artists etc. and then just not to show for no reason!  Well this one was called to work, a full time job they had, but this was their day off.

They should have told work to take a hike they had plans.

I know work is important but this is my work and I made a hole in my schedule again for a no show, what a waste.

I feel like scheduling several models at once and then not being there for them and they can talk amoungs themselves how rude I am for not showing and see how they feel.

Only that would make them understand, and I guess it does happen to models too but most photographers expect to follow through with their plans they don't get where they are today by just waiting for someone to come to them, they hunt down work etc.

How rude to treat anyone, yea get over it I hear, but this happens too often, too many schedule changes where everyone is holding the bag while some flake craps on you.  Not my style to like that.

How rude of you!! Good grief.... I don't know about most people, but all of the people that I know that get called into their full time job on a day off have no choice to go in else their job will tell them, oh ok, well don't bother to come in tomorrow, or the next day or the next day after that either.

Scheduling several models at once would be rude. It would QUICKLY put your own reputation down the drain for being a jerk. Don't even think for a minute that it would "make them understand." No, it wouldn't. You would be punishing the wrong people. Those models showed up and did what was requested of them. Its the ones that never show up that are the problem. Duh.

Glad you just barely mentioned that it happens to models too. Guess what, it happens A LOT. Yeah sure I'd love to work with you.... never an email again. Sending out ten, fifteen and more emails a day with hardly a word back from any of them. This is NOT an exclusive issue with photographers. You don't think that models make all sorts of arrengements in our schedules to try to make things happen?

If you've got that much of a problem with this, then maybe this industry isn't for you. Maybe you're not cut out to handle things here. If thats not the case, then guess what... Get over it. Because thats the only choice you've got.

I certainly hope this has caught you on a bad day, and you're just venting. Frankly, this isn't the place for that, as I've said time and time again. Its your reputation. Feel free to do whatever you want with it, just remember its always on display here.

NC17 wrote:
I certainly hope this has caught you on a bad day, and you're just venting. Frankly, this isn't the place for that, as I've said time and time again.

Huh...I thought that was the whole point of this thread. I'm pretty sure he was just venting...only an idiot would do what he's suggesting...and if he'd do it...well...he deserves what happens to him.

Tape Her Up wrote:
There's a model I would like to shoot with who has done bondage before.  She was supposed to come to Philly over the summer and we were going to shoot then.  She didn't come and didn't bother to let me know she wasn't coming until after the date of the shoot.  Then a few weeks ago she again said she was coming to Philly.  I tried to set something up with her then and once again, she didn't come to Philly and didn't let me know she wasn't coming until the day of the shoot.  We spoke on the phone that day and set up a future date in December--etched in stone and all.  I get an e-mail from her tonight saying she might not be coming after all because of another gig, can we reschedule?  At first I said okay, but it occurs to me that this is the third shoot she's canceled on me and why the hell should I give her a chance to cancel on me yet again?  I've turned down shoots to work with this model and she's canceled out.  I don't know...should I just tell her to kiss off or what?  If she comes, she'll probably do good on my site, but I'm sick of the cancellation game.   Anyone have any thoughts?

If you really want to shoot with her, travel to her location. That leaves location scouting in her hands, which will make her more comfortable and put her in control, but will also give her fewer excuses to back out on you.

Jessalyn_54 wrote:
screw it. find someone else.

I'm amazed at how long you photographers put up with this crap until you tell these wannabes to piss off!

I shoulda heard that from you a long time ago.  iit would have saved me a lot of headaches

Tape Her Up wrote:
Note:  I am not looking for nor do I care for attacks on my port.  I asked a specific question regarding a specific situation.  Those of you who have had the good manners to keep attacks on my port out of your answers, I thank.  Those of you who do not have the same manners can go suck eggs.

Agreed, having patience with someone is not problem, but when people become disrespectful dont waste your time with them.

Art Schotz wrote:

I shoulda heard that from you a long time ago.  iit would have saved me a lot of headaches

Its always funny to read comments from models who do the very same thing
the photographers talking about.  There is a model who is forever writing about
how dependable and reliable she is and every time I read her load of crap I
want to puke.  She contacted me and claimed she wanted to shoot.  Well
as you can imagine that never happened yet she's reliable and dependable.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

Its always funny to read comments from models who do the very same thing
the photographers talking about.  There is a model who is forever writing about
how dependable and reliable she is and every time I read her load of crap I
want to puke.  She contacted me and claimed she wanted to shoot.  Well
as you can imagine that never happened yet she's reliable and dependable.

Yup. Drives me up a wall.

Susi wrote:
Some people are assholes on this site. The OP shoots damsel in distress images...in the style that sells on damsel in distress websites.  The style is what it is...if you don't like it then leave him be.  Alot of people don't like cheesy glamour images...bondage images...nudes...fashion images...but ya know what, we're all on this site...all types.  So, answer the question and move on peeps.  Gees...

Oh, and in answer to the original question, don't work with that model again...she's a flake.

My God....I couldn't have said that better, Susi!  Like him, I've had a few attacks on my port (and probably will have more now that I've opened myself up) to the point that I just don't post anything new here anymore....it's just not worth it to me to get slammed by folks who don't understand my genre.  I've seen a few images here I didn't exactly care for, but said nothing...even tho I didn't care for the image, I respect the photog who took them just that much.

Now, to the question....life sucks, sometimes...you have to have SOME leeway.  I'd allow a model to cancel once on me with a fair excuse, if she cancels again, she'd better have a great one, but after a third...well, that's all...it's obvious you're not interested, seeya later.  You always get three strikes with me...but that's it.