Marcus J. Ranum wrote:
"Fine art" means that the photographer believes that their work is really good - hence the pretension of "fine."  "Artistic nude" means more along the lines of, "well, I'm trying."



mjr.

maybe you're right... Actually "ART", "MUSE" etc are very strongs word to apply to your own work, aren't they?

Tim Hammond wrote:
Pretentious or not, failing to call your work art can make or break you from a marketing perspective.  It doesn't matter whether or not there's a difference between nudes, artistic nudes, and fine art nudes.  All that matters is how the client wants to be spoken to.

Wow- why dont we all just shoot weddings, babies, and products . . . for that matter, why dont we all just become bankers, accountants, and financial planners- oh yeah- we have a soul.

Jose Luis wrote:

Wow- why dont we all just shoot weddings, babies, and products . . . for that matter, why dont we all just become bankers, accountants, and financial planners- oh yeah- we have a soul.

Is false modesty less "soulfull" than pretentiousness?  I'm not suggesting anyone give up their integrity.  An honest person can present the same piece in a manner that says "take it or leave it" or in a manner that says "I'm proud of my work."  Being too "pure" to call your work art is just as pretentious as calling everything you shoot art.

Scott Harrill wrote:
Fine Art Nude is usually black and white.

Artistic nude is in color.

lol

Tim Hammond wrote:
Try approaching a gallery with a portfolio of "nudes," of "artistic nudes," and of "fine art nudes" and see which they're more willing to look at. 

Prepare two sets of business cards.  On one, state that you shoot "weddings, portraits, and nudes."  On the other, state that you shoot "weddings, portraits, and fine art nudes." See which one gets you more work.

Shoot identical photos for two intimate portrait clients.  Tell one it's a "fine art nude."  Tell the other it's a "nude."  See which one frames it and hangs it on her bedroom wall and which one asks to reshoot it.

Find a pair of twins.  In seperate conversations, tell one "that dress really compliments your beautiful figure."  Tell the other "that dress really shows what your hot body is made for."  See which one takes is as a compliment and which one is insulted.

Pretentious or not, failing to call your work art can make or break you from a marketing perspective.  It doesn't matter whether or not there's a difference between nudes, artistic nudes, and fine art nudes.  All that matters is how the client wants to be spoken to.

e-string wrote:
An artistic nude is more about the face and the "human". To me it's like glamour minus the sexual tone - it could be soft and pretty or hard edged. Fine art is more about form, figure, shapes, shadows, a real message, etc. It's a little less focused on the model herself (or himself).

Very well put.  I am all about form, figure and shape.

Marcus J. Ranum wrote:
"Fine art" means that the photographer believes that their work is really good - hence the pretension of "fine."  "Artistic nude" means more along the lines of, "well, I'm trying."



mjr.

Took the words right out of my mouth. 

"Fine art" is a transliteration from German and isn't used anywhere but university art departments and internet photographers.  It's pretentious and redundant.  Artists prefer the word "art."

"Artistic" always has the flavor of trying too hard.  It means in the manner of art, but implies that it's not quite there yet.  If it were there it would be called "art."

-Don

"When something is presented too often as wisdom, it must be challenged."

Perfect Pixels wrote:

Very well put.  I am all about form, figure and shape.

Well... I'm not talking about cleavage or a flat tummy. I'm talking about figure modeling, which is a part of fine art. Like this: https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=616057 (18+)

Gary Melton wrote:
One of the main differences:

Fine art nudes - almost always lots of shadow

Artistic nude - usually not so much

*headdesk*

Fozzy wrote:
I don't see such a difference
... is there any?

Hyundai vs. Spyder.

Jeff Marsh wrote:
e-string - you not only look great, you are a real gamer and obviously not afraid of the elements... I guess livin in MN makes you hardy and brave!
Wonderful port.

Thank you.   Actually I hate the cold! LOL. The worst stuff I have braved isn't even in my portfolio here - I've had to lie in snow and ice with my feet in a creek that was still icing out!

D. Brian Nelson wrote:

Took the words right out of my mouth. 

"Fine art" is a transliteration from German and isn't used anywhere but university art departments and internet photographers.  It's pretentious and redundant.  Artists prefer the word "art."

"Artistic" always has the flavor of trying too hard.  It means in the manner of art, but implies that it's not quite there yet.  If it were there it would be called "art."

-Don

"When something is presented too often as wisdom, it must be challenged."

When this conversation stops going around in circles and comes to a conclusion, all that matters in the end is.... WHAT ARE YOU SAYING AS AN ARTIST?

It is the message, the tone, the emotion that is important. What are you trying to say with your work, how are you saying it, why... to who? A lot of people can take pictures of beautiful landscapes and use bodies as objects.. nude or dressed... but if there is no heart, and no driving force of direction... then you have nothing.

VISION: (and dont say it like a pretentious "artisté, its a real word with a real meaning)
When you have a desire to create a nude model image, your vision will take one of two roads...

-----------------------------
A. "I see two females, on a dried lake bed in the desert, with a vast background in black and white, high contrast."

or

B. "I see a pair of two lost lovers who have fiinally found eachother after a painful journey across a desert floor."
-----------------------------

Both might create beautiful images... but only when you begin with something more than just a description of an image you see in your head is when you can create something powerful. The story and tone and emotion or even the intention of leaving a lack of emotion to rather show an ironic and sad presence is also important. You can also show none of this, but don't do it by failing, do it because it that was your intention.

With that you can begin to develop something that moves you... AND THATS ALL THAT MATTERS. Dont create for others, create for yourself... and if you like it with all the honesty and personal knowledge of an artform that you have, then it does not matter how people classify your work. Its either flattery or criticism, and only accept that from people you respect.

So when its all done... What do you have to say? Is it new and innovative? Is it classic and understated? Is it in your face? Has it been said before?

Create images that mean something... but really, all you have to do is try and your natural talent will take care of the rest.

Fozzy wrote:
"Fine art" means that the photographer believes that maybe you're right... Actually "ART", "MUSE" etc are very strongs word to apply to your own work, aren't they?

I don't think "art" is a stretch, for most people. When you call your work "art" it's then a matter of whether it's any good or not. One of my friends is an artist whose work I can't stand but he's very pleased with it and so are some others. I don't think (in spite of what the academics say!) that "art" is something that's susceptible to definition or establishment through a committee. I'd say a urinal stuck on a wall in a gallery is "art", etc. Screw the academics! They argue about art theory because they're not creative, themselves.

The place where I have trouble is calling one's own work "fine."  It's like the photographers who refer to their good prints as "fine prints." As opposed to, what, say, "sloppy prints"? Or "half-assed prints"?  For that matter, does anyone shoot "half-assed art nudes" or are they all "fine art nudes"?

On the other hand, when I want to book a model to come pose naked for me, I tell her I want to shoot "art nudes" because it sounds a lot more palatable than many other alternatives. In that case, though, I am using the term "art" to indicate that my objectives are not commercial - "art nudes" as opposed to "web site content" or whatever.

Sometimes I say I want to shoot "fine art porn" and that's what I call my gallery on photosig. There, I use that term simply to jack people's brains around.

mjr.