FML-Photography wrote:
ce n'est qu'en Amérique que les gens ne parlent généralement qu'une langue

for those who don't speak French, i said, "it's only in America that people generally speak only one language."

may i highlight the word "generally" ? we have afterall, in this thread, seen that a number of you do speak other languages.

FML

Tape Her Up wrote:

This may be...but when you're living in a country where English IS the mother tongue

Actually..not that I am against what you are saying in this thread but english isn't the official language of the U.S as many think it is. We are one of the very few countries who don't have an official language.

David Pankhurst Photo wrote:
Your right...you are a very third rate bondage porn peddler!.. In fact, not only are your images really bbad, if this is the best you can do after two years, you have a problem.  A piece of tape does not a bondage or porn image make.  A hotel bedroom does not a photographer make.  before you start criticising the way others speak, you ought to take a close look at your somewhat arrogant self...proclaiming to be a peddler of images....talk about a typical GWC.  Sorry but your post really pissed me off.

The fuck?!  Could people please stop attacking other people's work when they can't think of any other way to argue with them on here?

And I've been all over the world.  Mexico, France, Italy, England, Spain, Australia.  Never hit Asia, haven't made it to the motherland yet, but I'll tell you one thing.  In other countries that were smart enough to have an official language, you better know what you're talking about in their language.  Sure, you can go to Paris and find English speakers, but head to Aix en Provence and well, good luck.  It's possible, but they'll call you a stupid American.  What's my point?  When in Rome, do as the Romans do motherfuckers.

Tape Her Up wrote:

So wait...are you suggesting that I need to learn his language?  I mean, he came to America to live, but I have to learn Pakistani or whatever the hell language is his native tongue?  He shouldn't have to learn my native tongue if he's going to:

a)live in America
b)Represent models in America
c)Call American photographers to get shoots for his models

There seems something wrong there!

Athapaskan is the native language in the part of America that I live in.  Inupiaq is the native language in much of the area I work in.  Kiowa and Comanche are the native languages in the part of America I grew up in. 

You can either insist the whole world come to you, or you can put in the effort to communicate.  It's your choice.

No wonder the world thinks Americans are arrogant.

Tape Her Up wrote:

So wait...are you suggesting that I need to learn his language?  I mean, he came to America to live, but I have to learn Pakistani or whatever the hell language is his native tongue?  He shouldn't have to learn my native tongue if he's going to:

a)live in America
b)Represent models in America
c)Call American photographers to get shoots for his models

There seems something wrong there!

Three good points , I agree that english is the language here . Either learn it or suffer .

Tim Hammond wrote:

Athapaskan is the native language in the part of America that I live in.  Inupiaq is the native language in much of the area I work in.  Kiowa and Comanche are the native languages in the part of America I grew up in. 

You can either insist the whole world come to you, or you can put in the effort to communicate.  It's your choice.

No wonder the world thinks Americans are arrogant.

Oh for Christ's sake!!  I see you typing in English unless I happen to know a language I didn't study.  Do you use Kiowa when you are trying to do business?  With those who don't speak it?  If they get frustrated and use someone else are they arrogant?

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
Sure, you can go to Paris and find English speakers, but head to Aix en Provence and well, good luck. It's possible, but they'll call you a stupid American.

don't forget that in France we're required to study English, including down in Aix. why, however, we don't volunteer our understanding of English, however capable, is a matter that is perhaps less easy to translate.

just my two centimes,
FML

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

Oh for Christ's sake!!  I see you typing in English unless I happen to know a language I didn't study.  Do you use Kiowa when you are trying to do business?  With those who don't speak it?  If they get frustrated and use someone else are they arrogant?

Not Kiowa, but I sometimes use Inupiaq or Athapaskan when doing business.  The point is, you can bitch about everyone who's different than you or you can acknowledge that redneck American isn't the center of the uinverse and put in the effort to and get something accomplished.  Whine or work, your choice.

FML-Photography wrote:

don't forget that in France we're required to study English, including down in Aix. why, however, we don't volunteer our understanding of English, however capable, is a matter that is perhaps less easy to translate.

just my two centimes,
FML

Oh I'll never forget it.  It was drilled into my head by my French born teacher all through high school.  But what language should American students be required to learn?  Spanish is the biggie, but these days we'd have to learn every language there is, whereas English is more universal because of business and whatnot.

And I know why y'all don't like to act like you know what we're saying.  Because it's fun. 

Niquey wrote:
Although i agree with you, and can see you had a genuine issue, there are people who say the same thing "If you want to talk with me, speak my language" and yet they don't bother listening to a person properly. I work in retail and have to deal with people asking questions in poor english on a regular basis, thick african accents are usually the hardest for me. However i find that if i pay proper attention i can generally figure out what they're saying. A lot of people are slack and something clicks in their head that says "Not speaking english, so i can't understand them at all". Thoser people bug me.

But like i said, you had a genuine issue, and you make a valid point, it's important to be able to speak the language of the business you're after.

Well said and put!

Tim Hammond wrote:

Not Kiowa, but I sometimes use Inupiaq or Athapaskan when doing business.  The point is, you can bitch about everyone who's different than you or you can acknowledge that redneck American isn't the center of the uinverse and put in the effort to and get something accomplished.  Whine or work, your choice.

I just picked one, whatever.
This isn't about thinking that America is the center of the universe, it's about why are we the ones putting in the effort everytime.  Do you know how many people live in this country and have only bothered to learn the most basic English because they know they can scream arrogant Americans (in our damn country no less) and we have to bend over backwards to accomodate them?  Fuck that!  If I moved to Nice (like I've always wanted to) I'd sure as hell brush up on my French while I packed.
Man I don't mean to sound so angry because I do know enough of the Romantic languages to get by, but still.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

I just picked one, whatever.
This isn't about thinking that America is the center of the universe, it's about why are we the ones putting in the effort everytime.  Do you know how many people live in this country and have only bothered to learn the most basic English because they know they can scream arrogant Americans (in our damn country no less) and we have to bend over backwards to accomodate them?  Fuck that!  If I moved to Nice (like I've always wanted to) I'd sure as hell brush up on my French while I packed.
Man I don't mean to sound so angry because I do know enough of the Romantic languages to get by, but still.

And when you ran into a Frenchman who said "Your French isn't great, how dare you not speak my language! I'm too lazy to pay enough attention to figure out what you're saying, now go away" would you think he was justified?

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
what language should American students be required to learn? Spanish is the biggie, but these days we'd have to learn every language there is, whereas English is more universal because of business and whatnot.

my response to that would be that one examine the needs & practicalities of his/her area; there are some places where Mandarin, for example, or even Vietnamese, are the dominant 2nd languages ...

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
I know why y'all don't like to act like you know what we're saying. Because it's fun.

no, i'm sorry; that would be cruel.

F

Tim Hammond wrote:

And when you ran into a Frenchman who said "Your French isn't great, how dare you not speak my language! I'm too lazy to pay enough attention to figure out what you're saying, now go away" would you think he was justified?

Yes.  But he wouldn't have said that to me when I was there.  I used to be much better at it and had a lovely accent.  I grew up with my grandmother speaking French.  But in Italy they snickered at us.  And charged us extra because my friend refused to let the tour guide talk for us and keep putting together horrible sentences from her English to Italian dictionary.  I cracked up when she realized how much she paid for those pants.  But then again some could justifiably call me evil. 

T H Taylor wrote:
You know, living in England for almost 3 years, I can say honestly that the English don't really speak English. 
I think it's amusing when a back woods, flat talking hillbilly type that speaks twangier than and old school Mel Tillis song starts bithcing about people speaking proper English (This is not at all a jab at the OP, just an observation that I've made watching our current "Minutemen" as they protect our borders.)...

Good point.  Most of the people who bitch about foreigners not speaking proper English couldn't pass a third grade grammar test.

Le Beck Photography wrote:
foreign language instruction in the US is execrable. My Norwegian soccer teammates at the University of San Francisco all spoke 5 to 7 languages.

yes, for example, above when i said that in France we were required to study English, i failed to mention most of us in European schools were also required to study another language; with the proximity of borders, most of us had at least basic conversation skills in several languages ...

... and it wasn't until i came to public school here in America that [said ability] was treated as some sort of oddball thing; then i focused mainly on English.

F

David Pankhurst Photo wrote:
Your right...you are a very third rate bondage porn peddler!.. In fact, not only are your images really bbad, if this is the best you can do after two years, you have a problem.  A piece of tape does not a bondage or porn image make.  A hotel bedroom does not a photographer make.  before you start criticising the way others speak, you ought to take a close look at your somewhat arrogant self...proclaiming to be a peddler of images....talk about a typical GWC.  Sorry but your post really pissed me off.

Saaamack/

T H Taylor wrote:
You know, living in England for almost 3 years, I can say honestly that the English don't really speak English. 
I think it's amusing when a back woods, flat talking hillbilly type that speaks twangier than and old school Mel Tillis song starts bithcing about people speaking proper English (This is not at all a jab at the OP, just an observation that I've made watching our current "Minutemen" as they protect our borders.)...

Saaamack again?

Doug Lester wrote:
Language and accent aside, the real question is why they hell are you dealing with a net manager at all? In my experience, only grief can come from that!

There is a point to be made here.  The few previous times I've dealt with net managers (in this side of my business anyhow), they were clowns.

Tape Her Up wrote:
No, this isn't a race thread nor is it intended to be.

Today I got a phone call from a model's manager.  He apparently wanted me to do a shoot with his model because she was coming to PA this weekend.  Or at least that's what I think he said.  You see, this guy had an accent you would need a chainsaw to cut.

Now, first off, I had a potential shoot booked for this weekend.  Also, money's a little tight and I have to be choosey who I shoot with.  I'm back to having to arrange schedules based on first come, first shot.  Also, the pics he sent me of this model made her look kinda skanky.  I mean, I might be a third rate bondage porn peddler, but at least my pictures have some resolution to them.  These photos did not look very good and may or may not have made the model look like someone I did not care to shoot with.

But the dealbreaker was the fact that the manager couldn't speak English too well.  I had to ask him the model's name at least twice before I understood what he was saying.  Hell, I had to ask him who the hell he was calling for three times before I figured out he meant me!

If you're going to represent models and contact photogs begging them for shoots, be sure you can speak their native language.  If I can't understand you when you talk to me, why would I shoot with your model?  It can lead to all sorts of miscommunication which can lead to even bigger problems.

Just my four cents worth.

Tim Hammond wrote:

No wonder the world thinks Americans are arrogant.

I thought Americans got by in foreign languages by speaking very loudly and gesturing wildly.  I've even seen you lot try it with us English when we can't understand what you're saying.

Tape Her Up wrote:
No, this isn't a race thread nor is it intended to be.

Today I got a phone call from a model's manager.  He apparently wanted me to do a shoot with his model because she was coming to PA this weekend.  Or at least that's what I think he said.  You see, this guy had an accent you would need a chainsaw to cut.

Now, first off, I had a potential shoot booked for this weekend.  Also, money's a little tight and I have to be choosey who I shoot with.  I'm back to having to arrange schedules based on first come, first shot.  Also, the pics he sent me of this model made her look kinda skanky.  I mean, I might be a third rate bondage porn peddler, but at least my pictures have some resolution to them.  These photos did not look very good and may or may not have made the model look like someone I did not care to shoot with.

But the dealbreaker was the fact that the manager couldn't speak English too well.  I had to ask him the model's name at least twice before I understood what he was saying.  Hell, I had to ask him who the hell he was calling for three times before I figured out he meant me!

If you're going to represent models and contact photogs begging them for shoots, be sure you can speak their native language.  If I can't understand you when you talk to me, why would I shoot with your model?  It can lead to all sorts of miscommunication which can lead to even bigger problems.

Just my four cents worth.

As a man who is married to an asian woman, I profoundly understand the difficulties any person has in moving to another country and trying to conduct business in a foreign country...  While my wife emigrated as a youngster, my mother/father-in-law were middle-aged.  English was/is a challenge for them.

Do yourself a favor.  Walk a mile in an immigrants shoes before you criticize.  And consider the following.... this Manager was actually TRYING to do business with native speakers.  He was TRYING to reach out.  Would you prefer that he just stay in his little "Ghetto" and only conduct business with people of the same ethnic heritage?

Consider yourself in a foreign country TRYING to learn the native language.  TRYING to conduct business in that tongue.  Trying to get your model a Gig.  Walk that mile man, walk that mile.

David Pankhurst Photo wrote:
Your right...you are a very third rate bondage porn peddler!.. In fact, not only are your images really bbad, if this is the best you can do after two years, you have a problem.  A piece of tape does not a bondage or porn image make.  A hotel bedroom does not a photographer make.  before you start criticising the way others speak, you ought to take a close look at your somewhat arrogant self...proclaiming to be a peddler of images....talk about a typical GWC.  Sorry but your post really pissed me off.

Ya know, I was wondering when someone was going to use the "you're a GWC" argument against me.

Of course, going by the strictest definition of a GWC--that is a photographer who uses his camera to get laid--that doesn't fit me.  I have yet to have sex (or even try to have sex) with any of my models.

Third rate bondage porn peddler?  Yes, I think that's a fairly fitting description of me (like I said, hell at least I'm honest!).  I'm decent at ropework and the photos I take are servicable enough for the target audience.  The videos I do are only as good as the models in them.  If the models sit like a bump on a log, the videos blow.  If the models put on a show, the videos are good.

Why would this guy contact me for a shoot?  I could be snide and say "you didn't see the model", but I won't.  The more proper answer is that as there are guys like me in this world--or at the least I'll beat someone to the punch and say "guys who like to pretend to be photogs" there are an equal percentage of people who like to pretend they are models or managers.  The typical net model manager figures they'll charge a ludicrous price for the model and take a huge cut.  They also figure a guy like me is sucker enough or can't get good looking girls to do their shoots, so they'll gladly take the job.

Unfortunately for some of these guys, I do have some standards and I have gotten quite a number of pretty girls to do shoots with.  Quite a number of my models are downright gorgeous, in fact.  And taking it back to what I said in another thread, I don't NEED to shoot with just any model that comes down the pike.  And guess what?  I really don't care what the model's ethnicity is so long as we can communicate effectively.  I've shot with Hispanics, Asians, whites, and African Americans.  I'm one of the few bondage guys who has no problem shooting with more than the hot looking white Blonde.  There are photogs--even on this site--who won't work with people based solely on race.  Let's not kid ourselves about that one.  Beyond which, my release form is quite long and spells things out in very fine detail.  Now if the model or her manager have a rough time understanding English, how in the hell are they gonna understand what's in my release form?  Or anybody's release form for that matter?  That's why being able to understand the language is essential.  And if you have to stay on the phone for 20 minutes with someone trying to figure out what each other is saying, then that isn't effective communication and that's a problem.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
The fuck?!  Could people please stop attacking other people's work when they can't think of any other way to argue with them on here?

They attack other people's work BECAUSE they have nothing of value to say.  That and the fact that they have the arrogance to think that because they don't shoot what I shoot, they are automatically "better" than me.

Like I've said, at least I'm honest (in a self-deprecating way) about who and what I am.  I know I'm not going to get published in LIFE magazine.  There again, my work is functional enough for what it is.

Would I like to get better?  Honestly, yes.  Self improvement can never hurt.  Do I NEED to improve?  Again, not neccessarily.  Sales of my work are not based as much on the quality of the photography (which is nothing if not consistent) but the relative hotness of the model.

T H Taylor wrote:
You know, living in England for almost 3 years, I can say honestly that the English don't really speak English. 

Henry Higgins would agree with you.  Of course, Henry Higgins also stated that Americans hadn't spoken it in years!

Tim Hammond wrote:

Not Kiowa, but I sometimes use Inupiaq or Athapaskan when doing business.  The point is, you can bitch about everyone who's different than you or you can acknowledge that redneck American isn't the center of the uinverse and put in the effort to and get something accomplished.  Whine or work, your choice.

Rednecks need to be understood and accomodated, too :-)

RED Photographic wrote:

I thought Americans got by in foreign languages by speaking very loudly and gesturing wildly.  I've even seen you lot try it with us English when we can't understand what you're saying.

That only seems to be necessary in Tunbridge Wells...