R Cervelli wrote:

The moderator of Model Meyham should start a HARD THREAD where photographers can list no-call, No-show models. Plain and simple.

If a model does call with a ligitimate excuse "Migrane Headache" then that model would be listed as a model who canceled but called. BUT if the same model has done it a few times, "where there is smoke there is fire".

i feel like people may abuse that, although it's a good idea.  What if someone just pisses someone else off, then they go around trying to ruin their rep?  i find it weird so many models no show! i have never even let that cross my mind, i LIKE getting new photos!

bang bang photo wrote:
So there you go -- if it's so great why not just use THAT modeling site instead of this one? Let the market decide. If the other site is so great, they'll get all the photogs and models, right?

No need to get sarcastic just because you don't like my ideas. The truth is, I'm a "little guy" photographer whose only source of income is photography -- if I get a no-show for a commercial shoot, I can't pay the rent, the car insurance, the child support, you name it. And I HATE missing meals.  When I put a TFCD shoot on my calendar, I can't use that date for a paying gig. So a no show sucks for me just at LEAST as much as it does for everybody else - maybe more.

I guess the difference is, I believe that turning models into "the enemy" by cultivating an "us" vs. "them" attitude is bad for business. Come on -- read the title of this thread, "Photographers Unite!" Us vs. them. Bad for business.  And again, I see the vast majority of businesses not turning to a rating system that pits them against their clients. From my perspective, that is a consideration that deserves weight when talking about what to do in OUR business.

I treat my clients, large or small, with respect. I expect the same respect from them. I want my models to be my friends -- not my enemies. To me -- this is the answer.

Obviously, we disagree. I'm outa here for now. Peace!

i find your ideas very well thought out and well written.  You make sense, and i think you're right but of course if a model screws up or a photographer does, people want to get back at them somehow and by giving them a bad rep on here, it makes them happy.  I think it's actually a good idea that models and photographers can say if one didn't show up or had lied about something or etc, it's just that it would get out of control and people will exaggerate or just outright lie about someone they don't like, and it would just be constant fighting, disagreements. and bickering...weird analogy but keep in mind Marx invented communism to HELP the people, and people abused it and look where it ended up...i think that this would turn out bad too even if it was made for a good cause.

T H Taylor wrote:
P.S.  Perhaps we only need the positive list... Models could strive to belong to the exclusive "show list" club; maybe positivity is needed to help curb the no show rate.... Hmmmm, that's an idea!

This is a far far better idea.  why focus on the negative?  both models and photogs would benefit from a positive feedback system more than a negative.

Brian Diaz wrote:
Yeah, we could call it "The Whiny Photographers' Thread of Libel".  Fun times.

R Cervelli wrote:
I guess some of us just don't get it. What a shame!

Perhaps Brian's comment would make more sense if you had used due diligence and done a simple forum search. You'd have found a few hundred threads about no-shows, and dozens about your proposed "HARD THREAD where photographers can list no-call, No-show models", all discussing the issue.

After a while, it gets old, as nothing new has been stated on the topic in years; it's a rehash of old rehashed hash.

R Cervelli wrote:
Damn, EBAY has a rating system.. Why don't these modeling boards have something similar?

Asked and answered.  Search for 'no show' or any of a dozen other likely titles. 'No show' returned 34; 'no-show' another 19; 'flake' another 53.

There's even a current thread on the topic.

Perhaps the idea isn't the problem; it's the belief that you have a new solution for it.

RRCPhoto wrote:

This is a far far better idea.  why focus on the negative?  both models and photogs would benefit from a positive feedback system more than a negative.

I agree.  Almost all the models I work with are thoroughly professional and I'm always happy to say something positive about them and get them more work if I'm able.

FosbreStudios wrote:
That's why I'm afraid to "rent" a studio location for a half day or full day. What if my model doesn't show for that day, and I'm already at the "rented" studio set, I get burned out of rent money?
Or let the model pay for the studio rent, and I pay her for her time for shooting, it'll all even out I guess

I almost never rent a location for a single shoot -- I always have a backup plan. If I rent a gorgeous house for a commercial shoot, for example, I'll bring in one or two models at the end of the day for personal/TFCD work. If I rent a space for a TFCD shoot, I'll schedule two or three different models. Worst case, there is a time slot or two that I don't fill, but I always go home with at least some good pictures. . .

Paul

CareLyn Anita wrote:
O.k I had to cancel a shoot because of a migraine headache , after taking proper pain relievers it did not go away.... considering i know i will not be at my best for a shoot and whn i am in pain it is written on my face, was it wrong for me to cancel?

No,you were not wrong.To cancel for good reason or even no reason is not the problem.It is when the model doesn't call to let the photographer she is not comeing.that is the problem.It is just commen courtesy to let the other party know and to do it in reasonable time not just 5 min before the shoot starts.

Corey Wellman wrote:
I've had models cancel on me, we've rescheduled. No big deal, shit happens., stop acting like you are ungodly important and curse this model that cancels on you and damn them to hell.. get real./ life happens...

It may be semantics but there is a world of difference between a cancellation and a no show.  It is not about acting lik I am un Godly important either.  It is simple mathematics.  If I shoot 4 times per month and 2 shoots fail because of no shows then that is 50 percent of what for me is a great hobby not happening.

I move on and bitch about it.  It's my way of dealing with it.

Gary

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Isn't this beating a dead horse or camel or something?  There must be dozens of threads complaining about "no shows" cancelations, etc. with models ... and this has just not been a problem for me or many others here. 

Spend your energy and time shooting with those who do show up! Don't waste time start another thread on a topic that will never go away.

The point is, this is harder to accomplish as MM get's flooded with GWP who think that this is a joke.  We'd love to shoot a lot more. 

Keep in mind that you are in California where you have tons of women to shoot.   So, I'll call YOU out on this one.  How did YOU get around this problem??

CareLyn Anita wrote:
O.k I had to cancel a shoot because of a migraine headache , after taking proper pain relievers it did not go away.... considering i know i will not be at my best for a shoot and whn i am in pain it is written on my face, was it wrong for me to cancel?

No you are a pro and canceled for a medical reason.
Its the ones on both side that don't even call to cancel not someone who has a great reputation who has a migraine.
ps: sorry for your pain.

CareLyn Anita wrote:
O.k I had to cancel a shoot because of a migraine headache , after taking proper pain relievers it did not go away.... considering i know i will not be at my best for a shoot and whn i am in pain it is written on my face, was it wrong for me to cancel?

Because pro models do what it takes, even if it will kill them.  if you're not willing to die for your work, what good are you?

UnSeenYou wrote:

The point is, this is harder to accomplish as MM get's flooded with GWP who think that this is a joke.  We'd love to shoot a lot more. 

I'll call YOU out on this one.  How did YOU get around this problem??

I posted this on ModelMayhem as a thread once before, but don't want to waste time searching it when you need to read it!  I try to meet with prospective models because just e-mailing, IM'ing and chatting on the phone doesn't always mean that I can judge that they will work out for shooting. The same post I made before about tardiness is also on my MySpace http://www.myspace.com/internetmodelclub blog. Here it is in full ....


Late again? How to be on time ...
Current mood:  cheerful
Category: Art and Photography


It's not fair to pick on models when photographers and just about any human being can be late.  I commented on another thread about this but it got buried.  I listed some ideas to help motivate people to be on time to shoots like;

(1) Get the people invested in the shoot.  If money is being exchanged, she or he is more likely to show up on time!  It's a serious loss if you show up late to court or the hospital.  So if "serious loss" of money, freedom or life is involved, we show up!

(2) Be sure you have exchanged cell phone numbers AND that directions are CLEAR.  I have a minutes plan that allows for up 5,000 minutes and long distance so I don't care if I talk to someone while giving them directions. 

(3) Have alternative plans or things to do available to you so that you are not bored (which contributes to mad moods.)  I like to have several people around so that I can put someone in right away to check lighting, warm up, etc. ... before the model gets there.  Then when the model arrives, they jump in!  It works that way in Hollywood!  If you can find something else to occupy your time, you'll feel better.

(4) Car pool or make arrangements for transportation.  This is a good thing to do, especially when it's critical to have everyone there about the same time.  Traffic becomes less of an "poor" excuse when we are together in it!  LOL

For those who do "TFP" and complain ... all I can say is what does the photographer and model have to lose?  It's part of the risk you take in doing "TFP" ... it's better to pay the models!

DigitalCMH wrote:
I really don't have a problem with no-shows or cancellations.  And I operate all by myself.

I have not had a problem either.  Is it something about "California Girls?"  LOL  I wish they could all be ...


"Late" .. yes, I've had those, and I've been those too.  But complete "no shows" ... that only happened to me once when I was to meet for the first time to discuss shooting.  Of course that person fell off the Earth. 

Cancelations ... well I've had a few of those, but "Thank god for technology!"   I always confirm appointments ... and sometimes we all need to cancel.  If it's a habit, then don't shoot with the person!

I stay ready for anything ...  many times I've done a shoot from just chatting with a model (friend) the day before.  If she or he is ready and I am ... let's do it! Improvise!  Have assistants who are also models, and you can warm up the lights by shooting before the one you've scheduled has arrived.  Have back up plans ... because nothing ever goes exactly as planned!

Patrick Walberg wrote:

I posted this on ModelMayhem as a thread once before, but don't want to waste time searching it when you need to read it!  I try to meet with prospective models because just e-mailing, IM'ing and chatting on the phone doesn't always mean that I can judge that they will work out for shooting. The same post I made before about tardiness is also on my MySpace http://www.myspace.com/internetmodelclub blog. Here it is in full ....

...

Thanks ... that was great reading!!   

The problem still is that you are in Cali where you have women all over who want to shoot.  Hell, I wish that I lived there to shoot and not in Cleveland.  But many of us are not blessed with having women lined up and ready (you know what I mean).  I had 3 models approach me in the past 3 weeks.  Each one of them I aske them to design the shoot and tell me what they needed/wanted.  2 of them were still in the web cam/cell phone cam stages.  All 3 wanted to meet, and I suggested mutual locations, public coffee shops.  All 3 flaked.  2 of them posted to paying shoots that they were interested in pay gigs.  That is what so many photogs are facing across the US. 

We all depend on each other and to apply for gigs with cell cam pics is like showing up with a resume written on a a Wendy's bag, in pencil. 

I think that educating these GWP and blocking their efforts is the 1st step to bringing them to reality.

UnSeenYou wrote:

Thanks ... that was great reading!!   

The problem still is that you are in Cali where you have women all over who want to shoot.  Hell, I wish that I lived there to shoot and not in Cleveland.  But many of us are not blessed with having women lined up and ready (you know what I mean).  I had 3 models approach me in the past 3 weeks.  Each one of them I aske them to design the shoot and tell me what they needed/wanted.  2 of them were still in the web cam/cell phone cam stages.  All 3 wanted to meet, and I suggested mutual locations, public coffee shops.  All 3 flaked.  2 of them posted to paying shoots that they were interested in pay gigs.  That is what so many photogs are facing across the US. 

We all depend on each other and to apply for gigs with cell cam pics is like showing up with a resume written on a a Wendy's bag, in pencil. 

I think that educating these GWP and blocking their efforts is the 1st step to bringing them to reality.

Thanks! I notice that R Cervelli, the one who started this thread was involved as an agent first.  I must say that I've never hired a single model from an agency.  What an agency does is check the models out first for the photographer or client and put her or him on the job. A former agent should have better intuition as to the models flaking or not. 

As for Ohio, where you are at ... I know of some models there who are very professional!  I'm trying to get them to sign on to my IMC website, but so far I've only got them as "friends" on MySpace.  I'll tell you who I'd recommend on a PM.