Elizabeth Claret wrote:

Not to people who bother to only see insult in a person's post, rather than sense.

Here, you want help? Paysites never bring in any large source of income unless they are run and managed solely by you, or the model.

Never.

So, no, it's not worth your time, depending on what you value your time to be worth.

Thank you.

You're possibly right. I'm not sure it's worth my time, but you sound sure it isn't. It may be, in a way, but that's what I'm trying to find out.

Thanks,

9th

IXth MAN wrote:

Thanks for answering the question(s). I appreciate your insight, since you actually have some. I thought it would be fun to do, but work as to pay off? ? ? ?

Thanks,

9th

Don't get me wrong it can be fun. If I do trade with someone and they just so happen to but the photos on zivity I'm super excited, but I don't plan around zivity. If I'm willing to trade with someone it's because I can use their work without zivity. I don't understand the "work as to pay off" part sorry. =/

~Mercy

IXth MAN wrote:

Thank you.

You're possibly right. I'm not sure it's worth my time, but you sound sure it isn't. It may be, in a way, but that's what I'm trying to find out.

Thanks,

9th

Like I said, it's how you value your time. I don't consider it worth my time, because, similar to you, I don't have or desire to put the time into making it truly profitable for myself. I'm also not popular enough of a model for it to just work with minimal nudging or promotion from me.

Uneven pay rates are everywhere, in every industry, however. It's deciding how important it is to you, or how much you're being screwed.

Dobias Fine Art Photo wrote:
Beats Suicide Girls?

Pay wise? Only sometimes and like I said that's for a lot more content and work.

Contract wise? I dunno I've been hearing they have a new contract but that isn't really on topic.

~Mercy

Joel England Photo wrote:
The "split" you describe adds up to splitting $1.40 from each $1.00.

reads to me 60 cents 30 cents 10 cents = 100 cents  ??? did you mean %

ddtphoto wrote:
I really haven't heard of it. So I was just wondering where this magical dollar comes from? They must have subscribers or something.

Elizabeth Claret wrote:

Like I said, it's how you value your time. I don't consider it worth my time, because, similar to you, I don't have or desire to put the time into making it truly profitable for myself. I'm also not popular enough of a model for it to just work with minimal nudging or promotion from me.

Uneven pay rates are everywhere, in every industry, however. It's deciding how important it is to you, or how much you're being screwed.

That is a fact!

It's getting worse by the day.

As far as photography goes, it's a hobby as far as MM is concerned, 'cause the photography work where I reside is minimaland underpaid. I actually work for the income to support the household, and now do photography and my music, as my artistic outlet. If I could eke a little from it, I wouldn't mind, but I don't like getting screwed.

Who does?

Thanks,

9th

Scottsdale Images wrote:
The split recently changed.. Model 55% Photographer 30% (used to be 20%) and Zivity 15%. It is a lot of work, but if it was easy everyone would be doing it. Look at the top model for a month, 400+ votes, according to my math that's $220, x3 since they pay quarterly. Gonna get rich, no. Work hard, gonna get something, yea, hey if I regularly get a quarterly check for $3-400, it's better than not having it.

And I expect to shoot the model TF, since she has great share. Its a collaboration, and she can work with any other Zivity photographer or bring in new ones...

Is it perfect, but what is?

Nothing!

Thanks,

9th

Scottsdale Images wrote:
The split recently changed.. Model 55% Photographer 30% (used to be 20%) and Zivity 15%. It is a lot of work, but if it was easy everyone would be doing it. Look at the top model for a month, 400+ votes, according to my math that's $220, x3 since they pay quarterly. Gonna get rich, no. Work hard, gonna get something, yea, hey if I regularly get a quarterly check for $3-400, it's better than not having it.

And I expect to shoot the model TF, since she has great share. Its a collaboration, and she can work with any other Zivity photographer or bring in new ones...

Is it perfect, but what is?

It's a jungle out here.

Mercy wrote:
As much as I like Zivity you have to look at it this way. There is only a POTENTIAL for money in it. Most models who make decent money have shot a lot of content that's on there and/or they are super active. That means it's taking a lot of time out for models (and yes photographers too) in order to get paid. I like zivity. I like getting random checks in my mail for a new pair of shoes or something BUT it's not something I count on to pay the bills.

~Mercy

^This

There is a big difference between a model expecting pay from a photographer on top of the pay she is going to receive from a client; and a model expecting an upfront payment for a venture that might earn some pocket change.  $1 per vote =/= a model's going rate unless you're a marketing superstar.

Elizabeth Claret wrote:

If you dislike it, make your own paysite.

Hey Elizabeth!  I love that idea! 

Elizabeth Claret wrote:
Not to people who bother to only see insult in a person's post, rather than sense.

Here, you want help? Paysites never bring in any large source of income unless they are run and managed solely by you, or the model.

Never.

So, no, it's not worth your time, depending on what you value your time to be worth.

You speak the truth!  "Paysites" used to be an exclusive domain of the porn industry.  Consider this ... information (content) is valuable.  People spent money to subscribe to magazines years ago, and now people subscribe to websites that have content that interests them.  There is nothing negative or terrible about subscription websites, also known as "Paysites!" 

I'm thankful that programmers came up with the system that allows us to use shopping carts for downloads and subscriptions as well as the purchase and physical shipping of product!  When it comes to information, I subscribe to "industry" sites like Pollstar which has valuable and important information for those of us in the music industry.  Also we should all consider that OMP which started out "free" is now a "Paysite!"  How many of us still belong?  How many here are paying for their subscription "membership" here on Modelmayhem?  Think of Netflix too! 

If you want to make money ... there are other ways of doing so besides posting and waiting on Zivity for some "pizza" money! 

IXth MAN wrote:
. Are there any sites that are worth shooting for?

If you want to produce and sell images on line based on speculation, you could try any of the numerous stock photo sites.  That's what they do:  sell contributed photos.   It also sounds much more striaght forward than zivity.  Workout what ever compensation you wish with the model and then you as the copyright holder deal with the stock company.   

Is stock worth it?  - hard to say.   It tends to be a fairly low return per image.  Some make a good living off it.   Many struggle, but it seems to me better model than relying on people paying to vote.

MadameKitty wrote:
Well, look at it this way-

Models do not own the copyright of the image. Unless there is an agreement on selling images, the model does not stand to gain profit from any work shot.

Typically models "gain profit" (get compensated) by selling their service as a model, not by having rights to the image. 

In the case of TF, the compensation comes in the form of images.  In many respects that's an advantage.  As a model, you typically get compensated soon after the shoot and it's guaranteed.  A photographer shooting on speculation has no such guarantee and could possibly not even cover production costs.

This is not at all unique to modeling.  Most people who provide a service that helps create a product are compensated for their service, not on sales profit sharing basis.  Auto plant  workers are not paid a percent of auto sales and McDonald's employees are not paid as a percent of burgers sold.   They are compensated for the service they provide.

Dekilah wrote:
The other big issue I have is the fact that I don't shoot "crotch" or genitalia shots. Again, aside from models with a big fan base outside of Zivity, the sets that seem to get votes are the ones showing at least some labia.

GCobb Photography wrote:
I wonder what these people get in return for paying to vote.  The whole process sounds fishy to a point.  It just seems like way too much work for no more than a photographer gets out of it.

lacunha wrote:
Zivity is like anything else in life.  You get out of it what you put into it.

It's not like anything else in life because business opportunities in life aren't equal based solely upon one's effort.  Some are better than others.

If you value your time (monetarily) and are looking to make it profitable, Zivity's a poor business plan for model or photographer.  If you're doing it for exposure/marketing again there are better avenues. 

If you're doing it for art or fun and it satisifies you...well there you go.

IXth MAN wrote:
That's what I found on a model's profile.

If I'm correct, I believe the way that site works is you get your money from votes. Each vote being worth $1. Supposedly the split is $0.40 to the site, $0.40 to the photographer and $0.60 to the model.


Just seemed kind of wrong to expect to be paid to have a photographer produce something for you to make more than he/she on.

It seems like producing, as a model or photographer, it's not a way to pay rent unless you are prolific or work constantly. Are there any sites that are worth shooting for?

I know there are two or three questions wrapped up in this, but an educated oppinion on this would be as nice as an answer from someone in the business. I've thought about trying to produce sets, but not sure it's the way to go.

Thanks,

9th

That's a model's way of saying that she's done a bunch of Zivity sets and hasn't made money off of them.

Mercy wrote:
As much as I like Zivity you have to look at it this way. There is only a POTENTIAL for money in it. Most models who make decent money have shot a lot of content that's on there and/or they are super active. That means it's taking a lot of time out for models (and yes photographers too) in order to get paid. I like zivity. I like getting random checks in my mail for a new pair of shoes or something BUT it's not something I count on to pay the bills.

~Mercy

Women and their shoes. 

  I wonder what cavemen wear back then.

Dobias Fine Art Photo wrote:
Beats Suicide Girls?

Anything beats Suicide Girls, imo.

Lumigraphics wrote:
Thats why I never saw the appeal of Zivity. Too much of a time investment for the money earned.

I agree and I think the photographer should be getting the higher payout as they put in 3 to 4 times the work as the model when you actually add up the time spent to produce the sets.

J  Welborn wrote:
Zivity is just a joke ----unless your the owner of the site and they must be  laughing at the people at the people who buy into it as they see their bank account grow with little or no effort on their part.

Scams come and go as will this one

The word scam is used far too much these days for those that don't understand the definition.

"Scam
   [skam] Show IPA noun, verb, scammed, scam·ming.
noun
1.
a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, especially for making a quick profit; swindle.
verb (used with object)
2.
to cheat or defraud with a scam."  - Dictionary.com

Zivity is NOT a scam as far as I can tell. There is no fraud. It's just a bad deal for photographers for the most part. Seems to be a good deal for models as far as the split, but from what I'm reading on this thread it's really only good for Zivity.

Just because a deal is not favorable does not make it a scam. Ever used a credit card or a cellphone (which still functions like a beta test as far as connection and reliability) Neither are good deals most of the time.

Laura UnBound wrote:
I won't tf zivity sets with someone who can't give me portfolio quality work from it as well.

Tfing for zivity is working for pennies. Not only does the model put in hours on the shoot, she then has to go home and spend hours upon hours trying to pimp out the set and get people to spend .60 on them? Ridiculous. In a year I've made less than 100 dollars off zivity. I can make that in an hour for much less work.

This thread can now die with dignity.

ddtphoto wrote:
Who's going to pay a dollar to vote on a picture?

Hundreds, probably a couple thousand, people do.  I get some money from it, although not much.  Others do better.  I'd guess the top model each month gets in the ballpark of $1,000.

IXth MAN wrote:
I'm sure the contract each party signs covers this.

I will probably be corrected if I'm wrong, but I also believe Zivity has usage permission from the photographer and ties the images up for a designated time frame, then the images are back in the photographer's hands to do with what he wishes.

Thanks,

9th

That's the nice part.  They don't EVER have an exclusive.  You can sell prints or whatever while the images are on Zivity.  In fact, I link to my prints from my Zivity page, and they know it.  Not that it's done much good so far, but it's another potential benefit.

Joel England Photo wrote:
The "split" you describe adds up to splitting $1.40 from each $1.00.

IXth MAN wrote:
Oooops. Maybe it was twenty, twenty, sixty.

Long day at work.

9th

Or maybe it's something else.  (Just guessing here.)

Laura UnBound wrote:
I won't tf zivity sets with someone who can't give me portfolio quality work from it as well.

Tfing for zivity is working for pennies. Not only does the model put in hours on the shoot, she then has to go home and spend hours upon hours trying to pimp out the set and get people to spend .60 on them? Ridiculous. In a year I've made less than 100 dollars off zivity. I can make that in an hour for much less work.

Edit: I want to clarify that this goes both ways, I dont think a photographer should TFZivity with a model that wont benefit their portfolio either. Im well aware of how much work goes into producing sets for the site. My initial reply was with the fact that many photographers try to offer zivity sets as an alternative to paying a models rates, as if thats somehow just as good, in mind.

^ agreed
I rather go fishing to have fun then shooting zivity models LOL

Tame Baby Parrots wrote:
If you only made $11, sorry. The only thing I can say is you're probably doing it wrong. Sorry buddy. Success in the arts is not easy.

hartcons wrote:
i'm up to $31 (averaging about 10 votes per set). next year i might even get a check.

Is that for an entire year of work? Couldn't you offer some teenager a senior portrait session for $50 and still make more than that entire year of Zitivity in about half an hour?

Like I said earlier, it just doesn't seem worth it financially.