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how do you get the photographers to give you pics?
I have done TFP and PAID assignments where the photographers are they tell me i'll get x amt of pics and then i dont. If I write a respectable inquiry asking when I can expect the promised pics they get all defensive and snappy. Any advise? I have had this happen 4 times now. I have considered typing up my own release to state how many pics i would like depending on what is discussed and then bringing this to the shoot, but I still doubt that will work. I am not misunderstanding anything becuae in every case i have emails stating what Ill be sent and then i am still blown off  Any suggestions? Sep 19 06 01:52 pm Link I don't quite get photographers who report they'll deliver X pics.. I mean, maybe if you have a set goal or something for a paid shoot.. But TFP and testing.. I never know how many pictures are going to end up being final products and how many aren't.. When I shoot TFP.. I usually go into it with the understanding.. That anything I use is yours to use.. And if the model has specific ends in mind or wants a proof gallery to select photos from.. You figure that out ahead of time... Blah.. I'm rambling again.. But... Rebecca's worked with so many great photogs and produced so many great pictures.. I'm surprised this is coming up with her.. Sep 19 06 01:59 pm Link Ask politely... again and again and again and again if necessary. That's how I get my pics sometimes. Bug the crap out of them.. but don't be mean.. that could just burn your bridge. Sep 19 06 02:01 pm Link You really need only 1-3 of the BEST shots from a look.....all the others are probably just for show or you too keep. I've been lucky...usually photographers I work with will send me a file with all the pics and let me choose which ones to have them edit...or we'll sit down after a shoot and look together. I don't expect it, but it's nice on their parts  If you are having trouble getting any of the pics back, just be nice and patient...tell them you understand they are busy and even if they have to send one pic at a time you would prefer that to getting none of the images. I usually don' mind it taking up to 6 weeks, but I always want/ask them to give me atleast one of the best pics before that- hey, who doesn't get excited and anxious waiting to see how the pics turned out? Sep 19 06 02:06 pm Link I Think this happens a lot with trade for pictures for new photographers and pink photographers. I'm guessing the pictures didn't come out like the photographer wanted. Maybe the photographer thought you looked different in your pictures because people only choose the best ones to show themselves off, including the make-up, hair, and clothes. Also I noticed that you were topless in some of your photos. Maybe the photographer only wanted to shoot you for that reason, and if that did not work out then he felt he didn't owe you anymore pictures. I know when I first started doing TFP I would let the models choose 10 pictures. Now I only let them choose 1-3 depending on the project because of how much time I put into the finished picture, anywhere between 1-3 hours on a single photo. Sep 19 06 02:12 pm Link Photographers should let the models know ahead of time what the expected wait will be for the photos. I know things happen, so if they get delayed they should let the model know that. Communication goes a long way. I try to turn images around quickly, but I also post the unedited images for models to choose from. So sometimes the delay is them letting me know which images they want to begin with. Also, it depends on how many photo shoots I'm processing...ebb and flow. But like others have suggested, keep politely asking the photographer when you can expect to receive your images. If you signed any kind of model release and the images are your form of payment, I believe the photographer cannot actually use any of those images until he delivers the "payment." There have been discussions before about releases being null and void because payment (the images) was never delivered. I know it's frustrating but just try to remain polite. And maybe get references before you shoot with a new photographer again (if you don't already, that is). Good luck! Sep 19 06 02:12 pm Link when people do tfp its common for some mis-understandings each photographer is different in the way they handle it/or work it. myself i give the model all the originals and the ones i touch up and use myself. so that way they can decide which ones they like ,each person is diffeerent. to get images from photographers that you have already shot with its a little harder. just be persistent but in a nice way and explain so they understand a little better of your request.you can also just shoot with photog's that have a better reputations. Sep 19 06 02:14 pm Link I have done 3-4 hr shoots.. with them clearly stating .. Pic your favorite 3 and ill edit them and then i do and I email a polite thank you so much .. and I never receive the, Then i ask again. and i get bitched at for asking again. All I want is one pics from each look and I always discuss what i am going to get in person. ihave emails stating .. pic your top x and ill edit and send them over or ill get you pics in 1-3 weeks.. and then 2-3 months pass and i walk away from a 3-5 hr shoot with 4 pics. I could post the emails publically to show this photog was unprofessional but that seems like bad karma and childish. I just want to prevent this from happening. I have had it with TFP small guys all the way to BIG photog's .. It is so frustrating. I have gone down to ONLY accepting assignments like Calander and Magazine shoots so that i KNOW exactly what i will receive. Just really stinks Sep 19 06 02:22 pm Link Sep 19 06 02:22 pm Link I usually tell a model that I expect to get 10 useable shots of them from a given test. That number can vary anywhere from 1 picture if we didn't hit the mark, up to 60 pictures if we did really well. I edit what I think would work in their book and mine, and then they get whatever that turns out to be. Some of the models I have really not liked working with have gotten 40 or even more shots. It's about results, not process. Sep 19 06 02:27 pm Link I have had good luck for the most part with getting my images. I do have some still owed to me from 2 different shoots, same photog, and I paid him for what we agreed on. Agter time one learns who to work with. Sep 19 06 02:34 pm Link If you ask and donât receive ask again. If you still donât receive, surgically remove their toes one by one advising them that the longer they take with the photos, the higher up your going  Sep 19 06 02:40 pm Link 1 month - politely keep asking 2 months - impolitely keep asking 3 months - sugar in their gas tanks Sep 19 06 02:40 pm Link Don't have an answer for that.....maybe they are just gwc that just wanted a collection of women in their books......I always deliver the product. Even if I paid the model, they still get full cd and some prints. Sep 19 06 02:42 pm Link What about after 1 year !!!!! LOL Sep 19 06 02:45 pm Link Julie Montana wrote: That would warrant the burning bag of doggie doo on their porch. Sep 19 06 02:47 pm Link Well I canât really speak for other photogs on TFP or TFCDs because I have only had one model pose for me and that was this past week end, Iâve always shot offroad racing and wildlife. Never dealt with models but a month ago I posted on Casting calls had a dozen or so models from MM say they would attend. I told them about the shoot and what I was working for in the way of studio work. I told them all I would give them a copy of all the images from the shoot on a CD and they could pick the best 4 or 5 images and I would have them made into 8 x 10s which I would work on there best a little in PS. I figured that in the end each girl would cost me about $ 15.00 bucks each out of pocket. Out of 12 models I figured in the flake factor I had read about on MM plus me not having a nice model port to start with so I was counting on at least 3 models to show in the end. 2 days before the shoot I was down to two girls and one of them said she had a paying gig. Which I canât fault her for that, Money comes first. So on the day of the shoot I had one model show and I told her I had a chip on my shoulder the whole morning as I was setting up and getting things ready due to all the flaking. Boy did she change that, her name was Erica and she rocks. She worked for hours on end and never complained at bit, her escort was very helpful and I shot them together 2 or 3 times. We had a great time and giving her a CD and 4 or 5 photoâs was a deal in my mind. I think itâs the least a photographer could do is live up to there word I know I will. I sure hope she works with me again in the future. Back to the OP just say to the photographer real polity I did my job know do yours. If he doesnât Come to Florida and Iâll shoot you and you will get what I said just like I said. When I grew up a mans word was his bond. Bill Duvall Sep 19 06 02:51 pm Link When I do a TFP shoot I tell the model the all paid images come before TFP images. I never agree to a set time but I will give a time line, like 7-10 working days etc. If I have paid the model I do nto giver her any images at all, if I did then that is now called TFP. If we agreed that I will prvide images with a paid shoot then that always takes priority over TFP/CD I get from time to time models thinking that the CD I sent them is just a preview CD and not the actual CD so they think they did nto get their images. I had a model that I did a shoot with and she got the CD,,,,got the 4 agreed upon edited images,,,asked if I would edit an additional 12 images and I told her that I will get to them when I can she she said she did not get her images?????? Go figure LOL! Sep 19 06 02:52 pm Link my two cents... if you make a photographer pay you (especially when youre not necessarily the best model, and probably should be doing free work to build a portfolio), dont expect copies of the pics. the photographer might be nice and give them to you, but they dont owe it to you if they pay you. i've paid models who didnt really deserve paid work, but i really wanted to work with them. then they act like i owe them the photos. also.. my work is always them doing me the favor. i never promise them anything. if you are a bad model, and i dont get anythign decent, im not gonna give you a CD of pictures for you to post all over the web with my name on it. Sep 19 06 02:52 pm Link Interesting... I've had a similar experience from a model that was paid for a shoot. Later, she decided that she wanted a copy of the pix as well. Though I am a professional photographer, a studio portrait photographer, when working with models I suppose I am no better than a GWC. Is it common place to give up a set of prints as well as pay the model? I have always avoided the TFP scene for this exact reason. But, maybe things have changed??? I would love to hear from some models on this.... Sep 19 06 02:56 pm Link I just checked the thread to see if anyone complained about me. No one did (Whew!) but they could, since I'm really slow about making CD's, but that's with paid shoots. Sep 19 06 03:10 pm Link Get it in writing, but be prepared to be very "reasonable" with the photogrpahers. I've had photographers sign contracts stating they'd deliver at least 3 prints within three months when shooting with medium format film types. Sep 19 06 03:16 pm Link Thank you all for your imput These instances were all TFP except one . .i am VERY hesitant about TFP 's for this reason. I spend 1-2 hrs driving, 3-5 hrs shooting in my undies and then they dont follow through with their word. Looks like my only choice is what I thought. .. only TFP with the photog's I have already worked with that I KNOW i can depend on an only the Paid work / tear sheets and calander assignments with the release. Looks lke i ll just stop TFP with people I do not already know TeaseUm, Hickey, DeDelaCruz.. The GOOD dependable photog's like them Thank you all though for the imput. It's unfortunate when you cant trust people Sep 19 06 04:05 pm Link MMDesign wrote: Hmm... that remeinds me I have some pictures to edit. Sep 19 06 04:23 pm Link Have you waited the allotted time that they've said? W/o knowing how long (which is irrelevant to your question), I'm going to presume that you have. You've asked nicely? Check & furthermore, he's alledgedly gotten snappy. I say alledgedly because w/o posting his emails (which I don't reccemend...at least in a public setting), there's no way to know. You could either... 1. Politely ask for an update about the images. Unlikely at this point, but it could be a way to give him an "out." Maybe he screwed up & is to embarassed to admit it. 2. Not work w/ them again. 3. Try billing them for your time. W/o a court order, no idea how enforceable that is. 4. Take him to small claims. At that point, you'd have to ask yourself if the time & expenses of suing him is really worth it. Only you can decide that. 5. Write it off as a war loss & move on. Some people are just plain rude &/or unprofessional. You get that on both sides of the camera, unfortunately. Sep 19 06 05:47 pm Link Some tips: >>> Only work with reputable photographers. Check their references. If a photographer has good work but appears to be somewhat unreliable (or is unknown to you), well, you are taking a chance & you might not get the images you expect when you expect them. Often, such chances work out well; sometimes they don't. When they don't, suck it up, move on, and you are free not to work with that guy again. >>> Misunderstandings can happen easily. Both parties should make sure they have a common understanding before they agree to work together. Be sure to cover compensation details (e.g. how many pictures, edited vs. unedited, delivery timeframe, size & compression, model usage rights, etc.). In general, I'd say that the photographer should take the lead in documenting these agreements, but there's nothing wrong with a model asking the questions. Also, there's no substitute for documentation -- an e-mail might not be a binding contract, but it can still help to get everyone on the same page. >>> Stuff happens -- for all we know, the photographer could have been hit by a car the next day. There's no substitute for communication. Keep it pleasant & professional. >>> Note to photographers: Some photographers have the attitude: "paying jobs take priority". I disagree -- a professional meets his/her commitments, regardless of the compensation. Even so, if the photographer knows that he'll be late on delivery, well, a professional will at least warn the model about the delay (and will warn her before the due date comes & goes). >>> Note to models: I give models the right to use my images for their portfolios, and I am honored that many models do. However, it would be nice if the model would drop me a line to let me know when they post one of my images on their portfolios. An e-mail is sufficient. I do nude photography, and I don't do much/any TFP -- I think it's a poor deal for the model. But these are some guidelines I would suggest. Sep 19 06 06:10 pm Link You can amend the model release they have you sign stating that you should receive the photos agreed upon by you and the photographer within 3 months time unless.... Amending contracts is perfectly legal, and 3 months should be more than fine provided the "unless" doesn't occur which should be "act of god", death in the family (especially the photographers), physical injury/illness, etc. Even if you're a pro, 3 pics over 3 months shouldn't interfer with your business and I'm saying this as someone who's employed full-time, goes to school full-time, and does modeling, acting, and now digital coloring for a comic book company. (No, some weeks I don't know what sleep is!) But I'm a responsible adult and live up to my commitments, and if I can't, I'm also adult enough to admit it, and ask for extensions! Oh, and as far as photographers in general that either: don't deliver (after a generous period of time), don't show, or things of that nature. Don't worry about them. You'll probably land some great paying gig that needs a photog in the future, and you'll know who to call that'll actually do what's required. (Trust me. If it can happen to me, it can DEFINITELY happen to you!) Sep 19 06 06:47 pm Link Put a little note on your MM profile in the credits section: currently waiting for edited images from: Sep 19 06 08:16 pm Link Julie Montana wrote: Inexcusable! It's TFP! The models deserves something for her work! Period! Sep 19 06 08:45 pm Link Shoot only with me. Check references Pay them Sep 19 06 08:56 pm Link just be careful about who you find online. anyone says they're a model or a photographer. i don't know what the point of them shooting you is if they're not going to send you pics. it doesn't really make sense, so they're probably kinda crazy or don't care about being a photographer but just wanna bang you. so, best choice is to check references or work with companies. that's all that needs to be said. Sep 19 06 09:00 pm Link W.G. Rowland wrote: Depends on the shoot, but for my beach work, I always say 10. Odds are, I'll do more. But I figure worst case scenario, I can always find 10 photos I like. If 10 isn't enough they can pay for more. Odds are, they'll get a lot more than 10. Sep 19 06 09:03 pm Link Ched wrote: Excellent idea...i think i will Sep 20 06 03:23 pm Link Rebecca Miller wrote: Damn straight Teaseum ;-) Sep 20 06 03:32 pm Link I dont get people like that. I usually post them a contact sheet by the end of the day after the shoot, and give whatever images are asked for by email and burn a CD mailed within a day or two.. some people just are'nt good to their word. Sep 20 06 03:38 pm Link I don't understand photographers that operate that way because reputation is everything. Ask for references and talk to several models that they have shot with and you have a better shot at getting what you want... Sep 20 06 03:38 pm Link When we ask you to sign a model release....there is no reason you can't have a form for us to sign. Your form should be a signed (therefore binding) agreement to receive 'X' pictures (of your choice). In this manner, you get 'paid' for the work you have done. Don't go into a shoot blind and with no recourse other than continuous requests. As my father taught me years ago..... get the paper signed. Best Regards and good luck, Z Sep 20 06 03:40 pm Link Ched wrote: Rebecca Miller wrote: DON'T!!! Sep 20 06 03:46 pm Link I agree with what has been posted, however I cannot totally agree with the priority issues. Not all shots can or will have the same priority attached to them. For instance, if I've just shot a TFP and then get called to do a major client's shots that they need by next week, lets say, then I cannot give the TFP the same priority's needs as I need to give the paying client. Of course, we will always contact the model if there's a delay. We now only provide 10 or so edited images from a TFP. We will no longer release unedited images (film or digital). We state that up front so there are no surprises. Like John at Look-and-see, we rarely shoot TFPs (they're by invitation only). If I see someone I'd really like to work with, then I may invite them for a shoot. Finally, it's easy to get behind on TFPs if a photographer has shot a lot. A simple reminder now and again that you're still waiting works wonders. Bug him/her, but be nice about it. We all have tremendous demands on our time, including models and MUAs. Cheers, Tim Sep 20 06 03:58 pm Link |
