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pre-shoot agreements? what to include? basic form?
I am aware of the need for model release forms and such.. but am curious to know if people have any imput regarding agreements regarding photos.. what they can expect to get from you.. what will be considered a fair trade for either their time.. or money... i've begun doing paid shoots and figure it's a damn good time to figure it out.. if you have any ideas please either respond here.. or directly to me.. as i don't frequent the forums.. i will however try to keep my eyes open on this thread. m. Sep 18 06 05:40 pm Link I was at a seminar and the speaker was a well known photographer, can't remember his name, well, he said model releases are a joke. Here's why, you think if you had a release and/or paid a model some money to shoot, that you can use the image any way you want. Well start making posters of them and selling them and see how fast they get a lawyer to sue you for the money you are not paying her, because in fair trade, that small fee and a model release doesn't give you the right to take advantage of her. I have a form which asks for every contact they have phone for house, cell, email address etc. and on it, it has boxes marked assignment, test, portfolio, etc. And on the form there are lines to fill out, I put down images are to be used for internet and portfolio use only any other use is not allowed. So we both know there isn't going to be sold as art let's say. But if you decided to try and sell an image for art, you should contact the model an make some arraingment that both of you feel is fair. The amount of pictures? I use to give everthing on a shoot on a CD raw, no retouching etc. because if they want a print they should buy one from me, not walgreens which would make my work look bad. But I have seen shots that should be out takes used so now I pull those off before I burn a CD. I never say how many shots I will take or give because you never know how a shoot will go. I have shot models over and over, and some sessions are so short, but you get great stuff, and sometimes the sessions isn't good. It happens, so don't promis a number, quantity isn't what you want, quality, is, and sometimes it's the very first shot! It also depends if you are shooting for one theme like a commercial shoot, for instance you want a girl on a horse in the waves on a beach. Well after a few takes you have some great images, you're done. But if you are shooting a general shoot and want to have several outfits and lighting changes, well, then you'll shoot more. I know, you're saying no kidding, well how do you know how many shots you'll take? You don't and even if you fill a card everytime. how many will be good? Who knows. So just say you will give them the selects from the shoot, how many is that? You won't know until you edit! When film was used I heard of photogs giving model three slides! Saying here you go take it and leave! So they get much more now on CD so don't worry about they won't get enough, your the boss of any shoot, that is the photographers job to control the shoot. Even in commercial shots, if the shot doesn't come off good, it is the photographers fault. they are in charge and should control everything about a shoot. Of course then there is reality, but that's another story. Sep 30 06 03:33 am Link Notwithstanding the post above, what is "fair" is whatever deal you and the model come to that induces both of you to work together. There are no rules. I strongly disagree with the comments above about the value of releases, and the obligation of a photographer to contact/compensate a model once the release is signed. A deal is a deal, whatever it is, be it no releases or full releases. Sep 30 06 04:16 am Link TXPhotog wrote: I bit my tongue and didn't say a thing about that one. I might have supposed that poster is not in "business" UNTIL I read this in his profile: "Carl is a commercial photographer with over 14 years of shooting studio and location for various studios, companies and advertising agencies around the country." Sep 30 06 07:28 am Link Mr. Anonymous Famous Photographer may think releases are a joke. Perhaps *his* release is funny, I don't know. But mine isn't. It was written by two of the best lawyers I know (including your humble correspondent.) I know for a fact it's in total harmony with all the law on the subject in my jurisdiction. And any model who thinks she can break it is welcome to try. I'll chew her up, spit her out, and pick my teeth with the bones of her shyster lawyer. Metaphorically speaking, of course. M Sep 30 06 08:54 am Link StMarc wrote: ORDER IN THE COURT!....... ORDER IN THE COURT! Sep 30 06 08:26 pm Link Give us... us free! Give us... us free! Sep 30 06 08:32 pm Link CLT wrote: Amistad Sep 30 06 08:39 pm Link studio36uk wrote: Attica! Oct 01 06 09:54 am Link CL Photography wrote: Yah, right. Can you tell me in what States that this is true? Can you provide me (and everyone else) on this site with actual court cases where this has been decided. Oct 01 06 07:44 pm Link In answer to the OP, I don't use a contract or model agreement. (Model release, for sure. Gotta have it for most media art buyers, commercial use or not.) Instead we simply develop an email or message folder talking aobut what's going to happen, who gets what, and so on. As long as both folks are aboveboard and honest that's all you really need. Every model I've worked with has been just fine that way. (Though I'm behind on finishing big scans for several right now.) -Don Oct 01 06 08:38 pm Link I think its important that regardless of the terms that you make it clear BEFORE the shoot EXACTLY what to expect from the photographer. Be very detailed and upfront. Also, let the model know what you expect from them and possibly the people they bring with them. Oct 01 06 09:06 pm Link CL Photography wrote: Interesting argument. Who ever said that an agreement had to be fair to be enforceable? Oct 02 06 12:31 pm Link CL Photography wrote: Getty Images is the largest (or second to Corbis?) stock agency in the world, and they rely on a very simple but comprehensive model release: http://contributors.gettyimages.com/img … 406_US.pdf to cover all of their millions of images for any use up to and including multi-million dollar advertising campaigns. I have a feeling they know what they are doing. Oct 02 06 07:16 pm Link HOW ABOUT THIS FOR A PRE SHOOT REQUEST. HOW ABOUT THAT THE MODELS SHOW UP LOOKING LIKE THEY DO IN THEIR PICS THEY BLAST ALL OVER THE INTERNET, INSTEAD OF SHOWING UP WITH GIANT NOSES, BAD SKIN AND SHORT AND STUMPY. HOW ABOUT THAT??????????????????????? Oct 02 06 08:54 pm Link I get a lecture from my lawyers all the time - basically they tell me the contract/release/agreements/contracts they craft will cover around 99% of cases if a very good lawyer writes it. The point they try to make is that nothing covers 100%. A good model release, if both sides are fair, will work fine. In no way will it cover all cases. I have seen case law where the release was over-turned because the renumeration compared to the commercial use was not fair - the photographer should not have been greedy. Many of such cases though, the release was held to be valid despite that. So it can be challenge - but winning is rare. A e-mail is a fine way to confirm an agreement before the shoot. We had a post where the photographer required the models to sign acknowledgment of the e-mails before the shoot. This was a bit extreme. However, a simple verbal agreement isn't enough. Memories being the way they are - and misunderstandings do happen. I've had models get the e-mail, had the conditions explained verbally and still space it. All it took was to refer them to the original e-mail to clear it up. In a civil action, e-mails, notes and letters are fine for evidence as long as there's no contravening evidence. I've never had any problems with agency bookings. But to show you how bad it can get, now most the large agencies tape the bookings - most of which are done verbally over the phone. Be sure to cover: 1. What the photographer will provide the model, prints/CD what photos, how many 2. Who will have the final decision on the photos 3. About how long it will take to finish photos 4. What the model can and cannot do with pictures 5. What the photographer can and cannot do with pictures 6. Who is responsible for what costs, if any 7. What the model should bring with her 8. Date, time, duration (approximate) 9. Contact information 10 Cancellation process 11. If model has ailing mother or grandmother (kidding) Now all that has to happen is for both sides to stick to the agreements and the model's mother doesn't die. I sincerely apologize in advance for models that have really had a mother die and cancelled. Oct 02 06 09:27 pm Link |
