SLE Photography wrote:
Difference being that it doesn't take any real knowledge of the tool or special training to use a pencil or piece of charcoal
It does to operate a camera well

kevin atkinson wrote:
I really wish that were true for me, not that my camera skills are all that good, but I'm having a much harder time mastering the stick.   The hand eye coordination of producing a good drawing, with all the various arrays of pencil types, blending techniques, getting the porportions correct, moving from light to shadow, the list is endless.  Then painting...the color wheel, mixing paint correctly, how to produce shadows of the same color as the light areas of an image, this list goes on and on also.  I've heard by some that learning the camera is more of a left brain function so maybe my EE background helped me there and I just need to switch over to right brain.  Kevin

I didn't say it didn't require skill & hard work, just no special TRAINING
ANYONE can pick up a pencil & immediately start drawing, getting good just takes those 2 things
NOT anyone can just pick up a camera & operate it
To do it WELL you need to know apereture, shutter speed, depth of field, etc etc and how to control these things
Usually just a manual isn't enough, but a manual is still more than comes with the pencil
Getting good at making cool images once you learn how to use it comes down to the skill & hard work thing same as the pencil tho

J Schumacher wrote:
Tsk.

Don't you know when a girl is hitting on you?

Hah, I doubt that was the case here.

Lucky Bastard wrote:
Were you shopping at Wallmart?
Just taking a guess:)

Not quite 
While there are some lenses mainly in the wide angle & fisheye and sometimes standard up to around the 50mm range lenses that're available in the 1.4-2.8 ranges, MOST lenses are 4.5 and up whereas with my older film cameras I have a lot more options in focal lengths and price with bigger apereture.

Christine Summers wrote:
Just be polite.

That's what I did
But the calluses on my tongue from biting it so hard & so often are getting annoying
I didn't mean how do you deal with it as in "What should I SAY to her" but as in "How do you STAND it and not go postal"
I'm looking for coping methods

Christine Summers wrote:
Verbally kick her ass in your head...that's what I do.

Physically throwing her in a wood chipper would be SO much more satisfying tho

SLE Photography wrote:
I'm looking for coping methods

Well, there's the old stand by of just saying to the cool person-

"Sorry, Jesus. I didn't realize you were back."

SLE Photography wrote:
I'm looking for coping methods

Chip Morton wrote:
Well, there's the old stand by of just saying to the cool person-

"Sorry, Jesus. I didn't realize you were back."

BWAHAHAH

RedheadRobyn wrote:

Oh I love you!!! So I'm NOT the only person with the idea of tossing morons into a chipper shredder?!?!!! Now the only question is, how to dispose of the human waste after they are shredded? my ex suggests we give it to the fish but then we in turn would eat the fish slowly making us as stupid as the people we dispose of...so what would be the solution? any ideas? LMAO

*Disclaimer: this is a JOKE, so anyone about to post or report that I'm some homicidal maniac, don't bother, it's not meant seriously..I can just relate to the poster's frustration (Geez, it's sad I felt it necessary to post a disclaimer)

Cue Nerdiness:
You know, biologically speaking, eating the fish that eat their waste would not be an issue.  Fortunately all of their stupid breaks down into the same simple proteins that make up the rest of the less idiotic people in the world.  Meaning, we can actually turn their idiocy into something beneficial to us: proteins to carry on living!  So please, feel free to chip them up and feed them to the fish, I have no qualms about eating those fish.

And by the way, I would never actually kill anyone either, though it wouldn't hurt the gene pool to have a few less stupid assholes.

Hamza wrote:
Ever notice that "Artists" that have not yet "Arrived" who are broke as fuck always have an attitude?  As if we should bow down to them because they are "Artists".  Fuck that!

Yup.  Open up any third post on MM for reference.

whitney ann wrote:

Cue Nerdiness:
You know, biologically speaking, eating the fish that eat their waste would not be an issue.  Fortunately all of their stupid breaks down into the same simple proteins that make up the rest of the less idiotic people in the world.  Meaning, we can actually turn their idiocy into something beneficial to us: proteins to carry on living!  So please, feel free to chip them up and feed them to the fish, I have no qualms about eating those fish.

And by the way, I would never actually kill anyone either, though it wouldn't hurt the gene pool to have a few less stupid assholes.

Please... let's be fair about this. Not everyone eats fish. There are vegitarians out there that could benifit from this. Stupid people also make a wonderful fertalizer for vegitable gardens providing that you grind them well (no large chunks) and distribute them evenly throughout the garden.

Winn Photographics wrote:
Please... let's be fair about this. Not everyone eats fish. There are vegitarians out there that could benifit from this. Stupid people also make a wonderful fertalizer for vegitable gardens providing that you grind them well (no large chunks) and distribute them evenly throughout the garden.

I like your way of thinking.  I don't usually eat fish either, unless it's sushi.

I mean, not to thread hijack.  I'm sorry she was a heinous bitch.  Just tell her "Jesus loves you!"  That usually throws people for a loop.  You can even add the mental "But I think you're an ass!" in there!

PK Digital Imaging wrote:
My response:

"Wow cool!  I don't have nearly as much film experience as you... but I'm wondering... with your head so far up your ass what filmspeed and aperture do you use?"

AHAHAHAHAH...too funny! She must be pushing the ISO with all the darkness surrounding here. /tim

SLE Photography wrote:
Not quite 
While there are some lenses mainly in the wide angle & fisheye and sometimes standard up to around the 50mm range lenses that're available in the 1.4-2.8 ranges, MOST lenses are 4.5 and up whereas with my older film cameras I have a lot more options in focal lengths and price with bigger apereture.

Me confused.

My Canon 5D can use any lense that will fit an EOS body, film or not, and there are plenty at 2.8 or better. So where does your reasoning come from.

Photos by Jerry wrote:
I find that the fastest way to silence people like that is to ask them what hyperfocal distance they are using and why.

Nice!! Maybe could also ask how any counter-scheimpfluging affects their bokeh.

Fluffytek wrote:
Me confused.

My Canon 5D can use any lense that will fit an EOS body, film or not, and there are plenty at 2.8 or better. So where does your reasoning come from.

I said I was having trouble finding comparable lenses for my Nikon D70s, I haven't looked at lenses in that vein for Canons 

Photos by Jerry wrote:
I find that the fastest way to silence people like that is to ask them what hyperfocal distance they are using and why.

Chip Morton wrote:
Nice!! Maybe could also ask how any counter-scheimpfluging affects their bokeh.

Oh, those're both good lol

Caroline Ann Martin wrote:
I'd have been most upset that she did this to you in front of the client. Perhaps she was upset that she had competition?

The client himself was not there for this conversation, or I would have had strong words to say.
I am wondering if she didn't feel somehow put out that she wasn't asked to shoot the event since she's the local "talent" and I am the hired gun, but if that's the case I'd like to know how she expects to run & hosst the event AND photograph it?
People make little to no sense.

John AshtonKeller wrote:
Where I'm going to school at the moment for Digital Video Editing, I feel like I'm the only one that is not trying to make art, but just trying to make a movie that entertains.  If I have to sit through one more incoherent art film or Bush-bashing piece, I'm gonna throttle someone.

Can't someone just film a freakin', entertaining story.

I know the feeling.... Jesus, do I know the feeling.

Studio36

SLE Photography wrote:

I said I was having trouble finding comparable lenses for my Nikon D70s, I haven't looked at lenses in that vein for Canons 

that was the point of my original question - most relatively modern canon and nikon lenses are interchangeable between film and digital bodies, and there's a good selection of fast lenses even for the D70.  while the cost of a lens may make the lens "rare" in the camera bag, cost doesn't make a lens rare for a dslr, and that was one of your original assertions. 

i don't know that much about nikons, but i found this page concerning the D70:
http://www.dcviews.com/lenses/Nikon-lenses.htm

and i have a comment about the pencil and charcoal pushers...  i agree it doesn't take "any real knowledge of the tool or special training to use a pencil or piece of charcoal."  however, i don't think learning to "operate" (which was your word) a camera really takes a lot of knowledge or training either.  not really...   learning "photography" on the other hand, does take you into the realm of "aperture, shutter speed, depth of field, etc" and how those and other aspects of the medium can be used to achieve your own vision.  and i think "photography" in that sense would equate to a [charcoal] artist's knowledge of perspective, light source and direction, composition, number of elements to include in the composition, placement of those elements, contrast, even which paper and the kind of charcoal to use...  an artist has to consider a lot of the same things we do as photographers; how well or how badly those ideas are executed is another thing we have in common.

artists and photographers use different tools that do vary in complexity and often require specialized knowledge and skill to obtain the desired effect, but overall, imho, all are simple to "operate."

Bill Hudson wrote:
artists and photographers use different tools that do vary in complexity and often require specialized knowledge and skill to obtain the desired effect, but overall, imho, all are simple to "operate."

Hmmmmmmmmm. Thinking here "Crayola Creativity Central" ANY child could do it! LOL

Studio36

J Schumacher wrote:
Tsk.

Don't you know when a girl is hitting on you?

LMAO!!!!!!!    I hadn't thought of that Schumacher, but you may have nailed it.


To the OP:  I think some people want to be friendly but they don't know how to connect (and they will always want to connect with you because photographers are cool); they want to find common ground so they try to compare gear.  "Oh I see you have camera X.  I have camera Z."  (Or something equally pointless.)  Yes, it is very shallow and approval-seeking and screams lack of confidence on their part.   But try to look for the human connection, not the logical truth of their statements.  I know this is difficult when you are stressed in the middle of a gig and trying to make a lot of magic happen in a short time.  You have the option of humiliating them with your superior knowledge and putting them in their place with an icy stare.  But that clueless dummy could also be your next job referral?  It's probably better to spare the wood chipper and leave them whole.  My suggestion: if they get in the way while you are working, (and it's always when you are working) tell them, "I am working right now.  I can't answer your questions right now but I will be happy to talk shop LATER."


WCL

SLE Photography wrote:
How do you respond to such idiocy?

In long dragged out conversations like this, I'm not sure of the source of idiocy.

People making friendly chit-chat are at least worthy of a smile.

studio36uk wrote:

Hmmmmmmmmm. Thinking here "Crayola Creativity Central" ANY child could do it! LOL

Studio36

including the occasional adult

Bill Hudson wrote:
and i have a comment about the pencil and charcoal pushers...  i agree it doesn't take "any real knowledge of the tool or special training to use a pencil or piece of charcoal."  however, i don't think learning to "operate" (which was your word) a camera really takes a lot of knowledge or training either.  not really...   learning "photography" on the other hand, does take you into the realm of "aperture, shutter speed, depth of field, etc" and how those and other aspects of the medium can be used to achieve your own vision.  and i think "photography" in that sense would equate to a [charcoal] artist's knowledge of perspective, light source and direction, composition, number of elements to include in the composition, placement of those elements, contrast, even which paper and the kind of charcoal to use...  an artist has to consider a lot of the same things we do as photographers; how well or how badly those ideas are executed is another thing we have in common.

artists and photographers use different tools that do vary in complexity and often require specialized knowledge and skill to obtain the desired effect, but overall, imho, all are simple to "operate."

I'm not impugning one over the other, believe me 
But while it might only take a few minutes to show someone where the apereture and shutter speed controls are, it takes a bit more to teach them what those MEAN and how changing either affects the shot verus "press harder for darker lines" with a pencil.
I still say that basic decent camera operation, especially with film gear, takes more technical time to use the tool than a pencil.
Time to actually produce great IMAGES with either is gonna be a different story tho

Warren Leimbach wrote:
To the OP:  I think some people want to be friendly but they don't know how to connect (and they will always want to connect with you because photographers are cool); they want to find common ground so they try to compare gear.  "Oh I see you have camera X.  I have camera Z."  (Or something equally pointless.)  Yes, it is very shallow and approval-seeking and screams lack of confidence on their part.   But try to look for the human connection, not the logical truth of their statements.  I know this is difficult when you are stressed in the middle of a gig and trying to make a lot of magic happen in a short time.  You have the option of humiliating them with your superior knowledge and putting them in their place with an icy stare.  But that clueless dummy could also be your next job referral?  It's probably better to spare the wood chipper and leave them whole.  My suggestion: if they get in the way while you are working, (and it's always when you are working) tell them, "I am working right now.  I can't answer your questions right now but I will be happy to talk shop LATER."


WCL

Yanno, that's actually a pretty good perspective I hadn't thought of, thanks.

BRIGHTDAY wrote:
You should have asked her for some spare change.

Heh heh heh!