Jay Farrell wrote:
I should have mentioned this before....they were not at the fair shooting, they do this at their own studio and were only there to promote themselves....my whole point is that many people are settling for paying less and getting "good enough" mainly just venting lol....they are just in it for different reasons than most of us.

Here's the reality of business today.

I tend to break them down into two groups although some might go a bit further.

The first group is what I call the "mall people." Anything that doesn't have a name brand just will not come in contact with their skin. Anything that smacks of a discount house is avoided like the plague. If you bought for less than full price at some trendy shop you're something less the human.

These people come from fairly well to do backgrounds, have high paying professional careers and use nannies. More than likely have two, possibly more, homes. Drive at least two cars. Take vacations in places we only see on TV ads aimed directly at them.

They have tons of spending money and will definitely shell it out for things they feel are "hip" or "cool" or whatever the words are these day. If you're a photographer you must be of equal status and be able to provide the best of service, the most inaginative work and use the most up to date equipment. Anything else won't be taken seriously.

I will be generous and say they are 25% of the population.

Then we have the other 75%, the KMart people. Photography is just a means to record the good parts of their lives. They are too busy working everyday not at careers but jobs. Their actual earnings have fallen in the last six years. They are more productive but earn less. They live in most cases from paycheck to paycheck. They are less concerned with art then getting a good value for their dollar. So to best serve these people all that is required that the work be properly exposed, in focus and inexpensive. You don't need that latest equipment because they don't know what it is. Your imagination need not be too far above their because they won't understand it. And if you come across as too "above" them they will resent it.

Sure I'd prefer to cater to the "mall" people. But that market is small and hard to break into in the time it takes to earn a living. Ask VanGough...LOL!

Then you have alternative of marketing to the KMart folks. You may have to work harder but there are more of them.

Take your pick!

FKVPhotoGraphics wrote:

Here's the reality of business today.

I tend to break them down into two groups although some might go a bit further.

The first group is what I call the "mall people." Anything that doesn't have a name brand just will not come in contact with their skin. Anything that smacks of a discount house is avoided like the plague. If you bought for less than full price at some trendy shop you're something less the human.

These people come from fairly well to do backgrounds, have high paying professional careers and use nannies. More than likely have two, possibly more, homes. Drive at least two cars. Take vacations in places we only see on TV ads aimed directly at them.

They have tons of spending money and will definitely shell it out for things they feel are "hip" or "cool" or whatever the words are these day. If you're a photographer you must be of equal status and be able to provide the best of service, the most inaginative work and use the most up to date equipment. Anything else won't be taken seriously.

I will be generous and say they are 25% of the population.

Then we have the other 75%, the KMart people. Photography is just a means to record the good parts of their lives. They are too busy working everyday not at careers but jobs. Their actual earnings have fallen in the last six years. They are more productive but earn less. They live in most cases from paycheck to paycheck. They are less concerned with art then getting a good value for their dollar. So to best serve these people all that is required that the work be properly exposed, in focus and inexpensive. You don't need that latest equipment because they don't know what it is. Your imagination need not be too far above their because they won't understand it. And if you come across as too "above" them they will resent it.

Sure I'd prefer to cater to the "mall" people. But that market is small and hard to break into in the time it takes to earn a living. Ask VanGough...LOL!

Then you have alternative of marketing to the KMart folks. You may have to work harder but there are more of them.

Take your pick!

Good summation of quality vs quantity... but since I'm a quality lover in my day to day life, I'm going to cater to the quality loving people.  Sorry... but quantity over quality doesn't work in the long run.

You say K-Mart vs Mall people, but in your generalizations you make one key mistake.  You assume that the "mall" people won't shop at a discount store, and that is just not true.  It is all about quality, and paying a premium for quality isn't out of the question.

FKVPhotoGraphics wrote:
Ask VanGough...

"What? Huh? What? You'll have to speak a little louder! I can't hear you!"
- VanGogh



Rockin' the tasteless jokes....

James Jackson wrote:

Good summation of quality vs quantity... but since I'm a quality lover in my day to day life, I'm going to cater to the quality loving people.  Sorry... but quantity over quality doesn't work in the long run.

You say K-Mart vs Mall people, but in your generalizations you make one key mistake.  You assume that the "mall" people won't shop at a discount store, and that is just not true.  It is all about quality, and paying a premium for quality isn't out of the question.

Well...like I said these two groups can be broken down further and there are exceptions but overall it's a fairly good picture.

And yes, quanity most certainly does work. How about the "mall" people who break the rule and go to KMart or any other mart for that matter. WalMart is the largest retailer in the USA perhaps the world. They most certainly didn't do it on quality but rather the huge economy of scale in their purchasing.

BTW....I'm a quality person, can't afford it 100% of the time but I'd rather have 1 thing of high quality than 10 of trash. So I usually end up waiting until I have the money for it. Tore up my charge cards many years ago. Paid off one car, the second has one year left and my home is four years away from full pay up. I may not have a lot but what I have has got class.

FKVPhotoGraphics wrote:
And yes, quanity most certainly does work. How about the "mall" people who break the rule and go to KMart or any other mart for that matter. WalMart is the largest retailer in the USA perhaps the world. They most certainly didn't do it on quality but rather the huge economy of scale in their purchasing.

Like I said, it works in the short term... not in the long run.

Quantity and lower quality goods are a very convenient way to keep the masses in line.  It is almost like the new religion.  "Keep 'em buying" is the economist's motto.  It also keeps the masses poor.  Just as you note being a fellow quality over quantity person, if you buy something once at $100 it's much better than buying a lower quality version of the same thing 10 times at $10... just the wasted time in re-purchasing alone is worth it.

We're living in the WalMart revolution, where megacorps are buying as much tripe as possible to sell at the lowest markup possible to those of our population that can least afford it.  In doing so they're shipping our money and our jobs out of the country... and forgive me for saying so... but if it continues and becomes pervasive enough it *will* affect even our industry.

Those photographers offering WalMart portraits at WalMart prices don't deserve the money they make, because supporting the quantity over quality marketplace is leading to the collapse of the US economy as a whole.

stan wigmore photograph wrote:
So these folks were at a fair advertising their service,so what!There is a huge market for that stuff and they are filling a need.Since when do they or any of the other people that provide low cost images of your kids ,your pets,etc owe you an apology or explaination for what they do.The people that buy the product probably won't hire you because they don't seee the extra cost of your work or mine as worth it.
    I took a class in marketing and was surprised to find out that most of the belly acheing people do about others "stealing" their customers is mostly crap.The business is out there,but you have to go find it, it won't come to you.Many  photographers are great behind the camera but that alone does not make a sale,they end up being piss-poor salesman forgetting that this is a business and must be pursued as such.
   What sells and what does not is up to the public,not the photographer and if the photograhper does not adjust prices or go find another  market that will than he is doomed to fail.

Fair enough....I am not worried about them stealing my clientele so to speak.....I am just waiting for someone to explain how that is a sound marketing technique and how even in volume how that is profitable.....

FKVPhotoGraphics wrote:
Here's the reality of business today.

I tend to break them down into two groups although some might go a bit further.

The first group is what I call the "mall people." Anything that doesn't have a name brand just will not come in contact with their skin. Anything that smacks of a discount house is avoided like the plague. If you bought for less than full price at some trendy shop you're something less the human.

These people come from fairly well to do backgrounds, have high paying professional careers and use nannies. More than likely have two, possibly more, homes. Drive at least two cars. Take vacations in places we only see on TV ads aimed directly at them.

They have tons of spending money and will definitely shell it out for things they feel are "hip" or "cool" or whatever the words are these day. If you're a photographer you must be of equal status and be able to provide the best of service, the most inaginative work and use the most up to date equipment. Anything else won't be taken seriously.

I will be generous and say they are 25% of the population.

Then we have the other 75%, the KMart people. Photography is just a means to record the good parts of their lives. They are too busy working everyday not at careers but jobs. Their actual earnings have fallen in the last six years. They are more productive but earn less. They live in most cases from paycheck to paycheck. They are less concerned with art then getting a good value for their dollar. So to best serve these people all that is required that the work be properly exposed, in focus and inexpensive. You don't need that latest equipment because they don't know what it is. Your imagination need not be too far above their because they won't understand it. And if you come across as too "above" them they will resent it.

Sure I'd prefer to cater to the "mall" people. But that market is small and hard to break into in the time it takes to earn a living. Ask VanGough...LOL!

Then you have alternative of marketing to the KMart folks. You may have to work harder but there are more of them.

Take your pick!

Yea I guess with many people that's how it is.....I agree many are that way.

Jay Farrell wrote:
Fair enough....I am not worried about them stealing my clientele so to speak.....I am just waiting for someone to explain how that is a sound marketing technique and how even in volume how that is profitable.....

Any technique which turns you a profit in your particular busness is sound.

Selling volume isn't so much how many you sell but how cheaply can you produce the product.

If you take two photographers both charging $100 for a given product.

One has expenses of only $20....his profit is $80.

The others expenses are $60 his profit is only half of the others.

Personally I keep very close control of my expenses which gives me a wide latitude when competing with others who provide the same service. I usually come out on top. Taking advantage of the internet has been a real plus. Before I quote a price I make sure I do all my research very thoroughly. You would be surprised how many just use the same resources because "they have always done it that way."

I'm located in a very small market area. Fortunately the older more established guys seem to be locked into that linear thinking. I am not so I now am nibbling away at their customer base.

E|||B wrote:

"What? Huh? What? You'll have to speak a little louder! I can't hear you!"
- VanGogh

Rockin' the tasteless jokes....

LOL... Eric... U rock dude... we're throwin another MM pizza party soon... I'll save the beer tab for ya... ;D