Greg Kolack wrote:
..the naked body is DIRTY and BLASPHEMOUS!

exactly!!

Maxwell Digital Art wrote:
I am the only one who gets offended when a model says either in words or on her profile.  "I wont pose nude because I have too much respect for myself."

To me that is just saying that no model who has ever done a nude shot has any self respect.

You have the right to be offended. If you exercise this right, anything said to you may be twisted by you to permit you to take further offense. If you cannot muster the energy to be offended, someone else may be offended in your name.

ravens laughter wrote:
maxwell....  we each can only speak from where our heads are at.... and models who think self respect = clothed have their heads up their ass.....

Gotta love it!

Maxwell Digital Art wrote:
I am the only one who gets offended when a model says either in words or on her profile.  "I wont pose nude because I have too much respect for myself."

To me that is just saying that no model who has ever done a nude shot has any self respect.

Are you a nude model?  Or do you just like getting offended when people have different opinions than you?

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

Are you a nude model?  Or do you just like getting offended when people have different opinions than you?

He's probably not a nude model, but he has sympathy for nude models when other models who don't/won't pose nude (which is fine, that's their perrogative) imply (and that's what they are really saying) that nude models DON'T have respect for themselves. Most do. It's a choice they made and most are comfortable with that choice. They didn't have to put it that way. They could have just said "I don't do nudes" or "No thank you"

Ivy Bressler wrote:
I don't see why you'd be offended, they've just warned you in advance that they don't have the mental fortitude to run their own careers and make professional decisions.

Uhm, I dont see how not posing nude isnt a 'professional decision'

I do not think the model in question phrased it in a polite way, because she is entitled to not pose nude, like myself, however self respect has nothing to do with it. Its just a personal choice....for example...mine is for cultural reasons.

Vito wrote:

He's probably not a nude model, but he has sympathy for nude models when other models who don't/won't pose nude (which is fine, that's their perrogative) imply (and that's what they are really saying) that nude models DON'T have respect for themselves. Most do. It's a choice they made and most are comfortable with that choice. They didn't have to put it that way. They could have just said "I don't do nudes" or "No thank you"

Gotcha.

Vito wrote:

He's probably not a nude model, but he has sympathy for nude models when other models who don't/won't pose nude (which is fine, that's their perrogative) imply (and that's what they are really saying) that nude models DON'T have respect for themselves. Most do. It's a choice they made and most are comfortable with that choice. They didn't have to put it that way. They could have just said "I don't do nudes" or "No thank you"

Yeah!

dania kay wrote:

Uhm, I dont see how not posing nude isnt a 'professional decision'

I do not think the model in question phrased it in a polite way, because she is entitled to not pose nude, like myself, however self respect has nothing to do with it. Its just a personal choice....for example...mine is for cultural reasons.

Its not the posing nude thats the professional choice, but the choice of words that unprofessional.

"I respect my body" I have only heard this from brainwashed idiots. A personal choice is a personal choice, but the insinuation that nude models don't respect themselves is pure idiocy. And I wouldn't expect an idot to run their own carer.

Better examples: "I don't pose nude because I already have a perfect nude shot," or "I don't shoot nudes because I like to keep a little somethin just for my hubby," or "I don't shoot nudes because I need to keep a little something just for myself," or "I don't shoot nudes cause I think I'm ugly nakes," or "I don't shoot nudes cause I don't think they'll help my career," or "I don't do nudes because I don't want to be disowned/excommunicated."

Preactically anything would be a valid and intellegent reason except, "I respect myself." Someone who says this is a moron, and won't last more than a season, If they ever make it at all by some stroke of luck.

Ivy Bressler wrote:
I don't see why you'd be offended, they've just warned you in advance that they don't have the mental fortitude to run their own careers and make professional decisions.

I find it funny how some of these models say they will not do nudity but are seeking a career in professional fashion, a career where you will be have to be naked at least some of the time, whether on or off camera. The top models have all at least taken their tops off in pictures. This industry is not for the weak.

LiliOPhoto wrote:
I find it funny how some of these models say they will not do nudity but are seeking a career in professional fashion, a career where you will be have to be naked at least some of the time, whether on or off camera. The top models have all at least taken their tops off in pictures. This industry is not for the weak.

Like so many other truths concerning modelling and photography, this has been pointed out literally hundreds if not thousands of times all over the internet. And yet the peanut gallery is still not listening.

Particularly agree with the "not for the weak" line. So very, very true, nudity aside.

Ivy Bressler wrote:

Its not the posing nude thats the professional choice, but the choice of words that unprofessional.

"I respect my body" I have only heard this from brainwashed idiots. A personal choice is a personal choice, but the insinuation that nude models don't respect themselves is pure idiocy. And I wouldn't expect an idot to run their own carer.

Better examples: "I don't pose nude because I already have a perfect nude shot," or "I don't shoot nudes because I like to keep a little somethin just for my hubby," or "I don't shoot nudes because I need to keep a little something just for myself," or "I don't shoot nudes cause I think I'm ugly nakes," or "I don't shoot nudes cause I don't think they'll help my career," or "I don't do nudes because I don't want to be disowned/excommunicated."

Preactically anything would be a valid and intellegent reason except, "I respect myself." Someone who says this is a moron, and won't last more than a season, If they ever make it at all by some stroke of luck.

Hadn't read this when i posted.  Spot on!

dania kay wrote:
Fair point,

Oh, this isnt a career path for all of us, some of us do it for fun.
xx

And thats great and cool and all that, but sometimes careers just develope out of doing what you love. They make for great opportunities when they come around, but you have to know what your doing. Its not something that alot of succesful models set out to do, it just happened for them. (Bout 50/50 successes who wanted it, vs stumbled into it). And most model dont  stay in at top levels for more than 5 years unless they are just complete geniuses and really want it, and are professional as hell.

But even if its not what you want to do forever, if you don't have a plan yet, its a great way to raise a college fund if you play your cards right. I wouldn't turn the opportunity down...

Troy Alton Photography wrote:
How dare people to have standards!

Oh believe me... I have standards.

One standard is that I don't steal a crappy 20+ year old technique like selective coloration; another standard of mine is that I don't shoot on wronkled bed sheets; and a final standard of mine is that I have high standards for the models I shoot with... they have to *look* like models.

Brian Diaz wrote:
Yeah, I hate it when people make person decisions for themselves.  They suck.

What I hate is when people make personal decisions for everyone else! They suck.  Modeling nude *is* a personal decision, and I don't need anyone's personal opinion on why it is/isn't a good idea... nor do I think it is proper to site "self respect" in your profile as a reason for not modeling nude... that is passing judgment on a whole mess of people both dead and alive.

Maxwell Digital Art wrote:
I am the only one who gets offended when a model says either in words or on her profile.  "I wont pose nude because I have too much respect for myself."

To me that is just saying that no model who has ever done a nude shot has any self respect.

You're just now realizing that they have no self respect? Man, I coulda told you that yesterday.

Brian Diaz wrote:
Yeah, I hate it when people make person decisions for themselves.  They suck.

Making a personal decision for oneself is fine.  The implication in saying "I won't do x-y-z because I have too much respect for myself" is that anyone who does do x-y-z has none.  It may not even be what the person making the statement means, but we can only go by what they say, not what they think.

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:

Making a personal decision for oneself is fine.  The implication in saying "I won't do x-y-z because I have too much respect for myself" is that anyone who does do x-y-z has none.  It may not even be what the person making the statement means, but we can only go by what they say, not what they think.

But you can only go by what they say, not what you think they might be implying.  To assume they mean that those who do model nude have no self-respect is to be guilty of exactly what you're accusing them of doing.

Brian Diaz wrote:

But you can only go by what they say, not what you think they might be implying.  To assume they mean that those who do model nude have no self-respect is to be guilty of exactly what you're accusing them of doing.

If I were the only one here who sensed the implication, you might be onto something, but when different people with different experiences hear the same thing in a statement, there must be something in it.  How often do you see people on these forums agree on anything?

Hope Parr wrote:
there was some reality show on TV a week or so ago, it was some lady, cant remember her name, starting a new modeling agency, she had people come in to see if she wants to represent them, she told them to take off their clothes for a shoot and those that said no she told them to take off their clothes or leave, that there were to many many magazines in asia and europe that used modes nude and if they could not get naked she could not use them - and she was a big former model.. so to those who think getting naked is bad or is only porn... dont quit your day job.

I haven't, don't worry.  I'm also not gonna be signed with any agencies anytime soon either.  I've already faced that reality.  But hey, thanks so much for the brand new insight.
And I'm pretty sure you're talking about Janice.

Brian Diaz wrote:
So should we ban all statements of self-respect, just because they might offend someone?

Actually I like it when people make statements of "self respect" that are actually high minded moralizing...it helps me weed out people I don't want to work with.

Brian Diaz wrote:
But you can only go by what they say, not what you think they might be implying.  To assume they mean that those who do model nude have no self-respect is to be guilty of exactly what you're accusing them of doing.

To say that we have to ignore conversational implicature here indicates a lack of appreciation for how language and communication work. 

The statement that someone does not pose nude because they have too much respect for themselves certainly does imply that posing nude means someone does not have such self-respect.  Another way to read that is: "I have too much respect for myself AND IT IS BECAUSE OF THAT I WON'T pose nude (and thereby demonstrate a lack of respect for myself)."  In fact, I wonder if there is even an inferential jump here.  Sure, they did not expressly state "A person who poses nude has no self-respect," but they came so darned close that there's not much "inferring" going on by someone who "hears" them as saying "A person who poses nude has no self-respect." 

If the model making such a statement thought it was possible to have self-respect AND pose nude, then what was the point of conjoining those two ideas as she did?  If she thought it was possible to both have self-respect and pose nude, then she wouldn't really be telling you anything when she said what she said. 

Damn I'm verbose.  (I blame that on Benjamin Franklin.)

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:

If I were the only one here who sensed the implication, you might be onto something, but when different people with different experiences hear the same thing in a statement, there must be something in it.  How often do you see people on these forums agree on anything?

I agree that there may be something in it, but it's not necessarily what the model is saying.  This is very deconstructive, reading into what someone doesn't say to attempt to discern what someone really means.

Brian Diaz wrote:
Yeah, I hate it when people make personal decisions for themselves.  They suck.

*snort

i have no self respect either
*wonders if he should blame nudity