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Model Flake--Out, Recourse?...
OK, so I'm a little agitated right now, bear with me... About a month ago I contacted a model through MM. She was new to this site, but not the industry... She's out of ATL and has been doing it for quite a while with a lot of shoots under her belt. We corresponded via email as well as phone, and planned to shoot tomorrow. (This was 4 weeks ago.) I don't do more than 1 or 2 shoots a month, as I need a lot of preparation for each one, so I carved out space in my schedule accordingly. Last week I wanted to touch base but couldn't reach her on the phone, and emails went unreturned. I sent her all the details via email anyway, but started to get worried. Was there an emergency or was she purposely unreachable? At some point I would have to cancel the shoot to not lose money and (additional) time, and I sent her one more email saying as much. Still no response. FINALLY... Mostly because it's been a bad week, and I was in a foul mood already, I decided to call her... but from a different #. Surprise! She answered right away! I then said who I was and that I was calling about the shoot we'd scheduled for tomorrow.... and she hung up on me. Have you guys ever dealt with this kind of unprofessionalism before? And remember, this is NOT some teenager joining MM on a lark. She's mid-20s and has been in the business for several years. Should I post her name and info to warn others? Do I have any other recourse? I'm trying to figure out if I said or did anything to warrant this kind of action and I'm baffled.... And, of course, she didn't say much of anything on the phone before hanging up, so who knows. Normally I'd let this go, but this is the second "flake-out" I've had recently with a MM model.... and after 2+ years of basically no problems, I'm suddenly encountering a lot of flakes (from models MORE 'professional' than the semi-amateurs I used to use), and stupid crap like this is really starting to wear me down. Any ideas? Thoughts? Just wanna commiserate? --Rich Sep 13 06 03:10 pm Link Let it go. There's lots of attractive women out there that want to be photographed. Don't let a few bimbos bring you down. They are just not worth it. Find yourself a couple of reliable muses and develop a working relationship. I have a few in my rolodex and thay are always happy to shoot when I have new ideas. Good Luck & Good Shooting. Sep 13 06 03:17 pm Link I keep a private list that I share with interested parties Star Sep 13 06 03:22 pm Link SlapstickStuff wrote: Yea, in the 10th grade Sep 13 06 03:30 pm Link Laughing..... The odds are you did nothing wrong....other than pursuing your craft! You are encountering what consists of the vast majority of part time amateur i-net wannabee's who haunt hosted sites like Model Mayhem... Usually you can be directed to their other "professional site" @ "myspace".... Many have full time jobs/school and you would think from the hundreds of comments & posts (daily) that they are established supermodels.. But they seldom have a portfolio that consists of anything that'd get them a job! You don't have to read between the lines to soon realize that they're predominately simply attention seeking tag whores who seldom if ever model for.... ANYTHING that could be viewed even marginally as professional Commercial Adv. work.. Weekend warriors usually tfp'ing with the local guy they met on Myspace or MM! If you want correspondence to come to a dead stop..Ask them to provide their paid modeling references as well as photos from those same paid sessions! laughing! Many have little/no experience yet say they're looking to learn about the industry! Can't pay a dime for pics, demand everything for free & ONLY from experienced and serious professional photographers..Who have years of published exp/work...... Then they copy paste a working i-net models bio/pay rate for their own. All usually without even a few amateur tfp's under their belt cause as YOU are quite aware even planning a month out when you desire to confirm the wannabee simply vanishes.. But oddly can still be found daily checking her sites/forums for tags/comments concerning her: "great look/amazing talents".. Usually from faux i-net buddies and people she'll never see or ever work with! Oddly wannabee's can check/respond to tags/comments daily but not respond to you when you are looking to confirm something that was booked for weeks.. The problem is that these frauds are neither serious nor responsible... They tend to think that sites like this are like dating and if they don't respond you are supposed to be pyschic and read their minds or the proverbial "Grandma died again" or the fave "family emergency" arises! These wannabee's are certainly NOT.... "models" in any way shape or form! There are a few wonderful i-net models that can be found on hosted sites! Best of luck finding them & working with them but when you do you'll love' em! Sep 13 06 03:55 pm Link SlapstickStuff wrote: These sob stories pop up here about once a week or so. It's basically the same story each time. Since it's a hot topic, I'll give my same response. Sep 13 06 04:01 pm Link Here on MM you mY encounter the flake. I don't think there's much you can do about that especially if there is no money involved. It usually helps if you speak to all parties involved (model, stylist, mua) 24-48 hours before job so that you can finalize time, theme, location, etc... It has been my experience that if you speak verbally there is less likelyhood of flakeage...lol Sep 13 06 04:05 pm Link A photographer I work with quite often e-mailed me and told me about a model who didn't show up to a shoot. He drove to her city and rented a hotel and everything. She was a no show so he went home. What he did was wrote up a bill and mailed it to her for his expenses (gas, tolls, hotel) and he may have even billed her for the time he spent driving and waiting for her to show up. She would probably ignore it but you at least put it in her face how unprofessional her actions/behavior was. If she DOES pay your expenses then that's awesome! Sep 13 06 04:08 pm Link Sienna25 wrote: Is there an equivalent term for an unprofessional model. We have GWC for guy with camera. Is it GWB for girl with body? Sep 13 06 04:09 pm Link I've had the occasional flake, but none of my shoots so far have involved any significant travel or expense. It is hard to imagine putting out anything significant in advance, especially with a new model (although proven-reliable models that you feel you know can turn flakey at any time as well). That being said, what is the most amount, in hard dollars, that a flake has cost anyone? Sep 13 06 04:11 pm Link SlapstickStuff wrote: i was expecting to see some very elaborate imaging that confirmed that statement in quote. if i were to venture to guess anything about this situation it is you probably talked yourself out of a sale with an "experienced" model that perhaps expected something more, or you came across in an uncomfortable manner. Sep 13 06 04:28 pm Link Yeah, that's pretty harsh, but pretty common by all accounts.  No response IS a response, and it means "no longer interested/available". You don't need to call from another number to confirm it, lol, or hire a PI. Just go ahead and book another model at that point, and move on. Since you invest so much into each shoot, you might want to use models you've worked with before, or pay enough to fend off competing opportunities. I'm guessing this wasn't a paid shoot? Some photographers even double/triple book for insurance. Now about this beaten horse, with appologies to Monty Python... " 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This horse is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-HORSE!! " Sep 13 06 04:49 pm Link rp_photo wrote: I've lost money due to no show models when I've rented studio space which I Sep 13 06 05:04 pm Link Is there an equivalent term for an unprofessional model. We have GWC for guy with camera. Is it GWB for girl with body? I call them BAMs (broke ass models) - Sep 13 06 05:19 pm Link I would let it go, UNLESS, someone specifically asks if you might have worked with this model before. Then you will be able to relate your experience with that model. Sep 13 06 05:26 pm Link SlapstickStuff wrote: Sep 13 06 11:43 pm Link Yes we should name models! I had one model email me for three months 26 emails and two no shows because I was kind enough to give her another chance, she had a family emergency she said. I wrote to her saying most models use that excuse all the time. but maybe she did, but the second shoot was cancelled as well, both times not only my time was wasted but the mua as well. When I first commented on this subject someone said deal with it otherwise you go crazy, well putting up with idiots like that who don't give a damn about your time, the mua time or anyone else but their time sucks. there is no reason they shouldn't be named so other people won't go through the same. This goes to the models who stood in front of a camera two times and want's the photographers whole history ss number 15 references and pay only and wouldn't think about paying the photographer with 14 plus years expercience 20 grand in equipment but we are crap? This has happened to every photog I know, after all why the h_ll would you say you want to set up a shoot then just vanish in cyberspace? Why bother or wastes everyone't time, and to be quite frank a lot of photogs on these sites are not playing this is how they make their living, so gee it isn't a game to them, and when someone takes the time to cut their schedule for you for FREE and you don't have the brains to be polite but only to be rude and an asshole, well name them. We need to get these aces out of here. I have worked with plenty of people who are not professionial, yet they call, keep dates show up on time etc. and make the stuck up play models put to shame! So how did the photogs who actually light and put art into the picture and save their supposenly good looks get to be stepped on so much, with no pay and like Rodney Dangerfiels, get no respect. Because we let them. That is why I work with more modeling agencies downtown. One photog at a real meeting at apa said omp and mm people are not real people, they just play and waste your time. With an agency you can be set up for a shoot in two days, and these queens keep you on a hook for four months and then they don't show up! Let them take their own pictures with a point and shoot in the mirrow, I have even seen that kind of pictures posted and the model was asking for pay only? first creep you have to prove yourself by showing up on time and getting good pictures possibly by paying a good photographer, and then maybe someone would want to hire you. Also creep, no job can be set up for pay if you don't return emails and can't call and keep people on for five weeks playing I don't know crap. AS on photog I read said, a model cancelled a paid shoot, like an idiot then asked if she could re schedule like an baby. The photographer said she should call the model who replaced her and ask if she would give back the 500 bucks they paid her, because she showed up. Models in most cases don't realize that testing isn't only for pictures, it is to see how the model works, if you can work with her, does she show up on time etc. They are testing you the photographers know how to take pictues already did you ever think of that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sep 13 06 11:59 pm Link Touscany Photography wrote: Sep 13 06 11:59 pm Link Let it go there are other models? Well when you try that attitude all you get is another bimbo! Who can you trust. Sep 14 06 12:01 am Link Star wrote: Of cool people you would like to meet? Sep 14 06 12:01 am Link rp_photo wrote: Sep 14 06 12:03 am Link Someone asked how much money are we actually out when a model doens't show? Well remember if you are a pro and are asking a mua to show for free and the models keep not showing up your reputation is on the line, how much time will she spend waiting with you for no shows and like it. Then she won't help you at all for any shoot because non of the people you work with show up, and you loose another contact, I ask why make the appointment if you don't want to shoot, don't wastes anyone's time. After all it's just rude you you (the model ) really want to be an arse? I think most models like a photog friend of mine said just want to see how many reponces they get so they can say to their friends how pretty she is and how many people are kissing her ass. But she doesn't have the nerve or courage to actually do what it takes to become a model. So if she doesn't care, why bother people. Such bs how would they feel if a photog asked to meet them on a corner and stood them up! I'd be they would be calling you and crying! Photogs if you don't beleive me try it sometime. Sep 14 06 12:09 am Link C R Photography wrote: This site has been mentioned many times, so I signed up a while ago. Sep 14 06 12:14 am Link Bummer! But pretty typical,it goes with the job.We have all had experiences as you describe.How ever it goes on on both sides of the camera,photogs and models can be flakey.The best thing I ever did was stop shooting a new face each time and started building a pool of reliable,dependalble models to work with.They do exist,but you have to look for them. Sep 14 06 02:33 am Link rp_photo wrote: Hmm I flew from DC to Miami, stayed in a hotel, had to pay for food/gas/rental car not to mention lost time at home with my wife and possibly paid shoots etc. just to have a model (term used loosely) no call/no show. Sep 14 06 08:31 am Link Christopher Ambler wrote: You Got it! perfect response! Sep 14 06 08:33 am Link I personally wouldn't out her in public...but I would let other photographers know if the subject comes up that she flaked on you. There's no excuse for lack of communication and a lack of professionalism unless she was sick in the hospital or dead. I go by the old addage that if I do a good job for a client, they may tell a few people...if I do a bad job, they'll tell EVERYBODY they know!!! Sep 14 06 08:44 am Link i'm still a little weary it is the model that is the flake in this situation. it would be well within her right to ask for examples of elaborate shoot dynamics prior to taking the assignment (claims of limited shooting - hours of prep). previous e-mails / phone conversations could very well have been such that the model was going to receive quite an incredible assignment and a request to provide some proof beyond the simplicity shown on this site might have been dismissed. if the above were the case, as with someone trying to sell an unworthy bill of goods to the reasonable person, a hang-up and pass is not out of line. there is usually a reason model's "flake" and more often than not it doesn't come down to their accountability, rather it is buyers remorse that the opportunity simply isn't worth it. it's easy to blame the model for that. recourse? invite the model to share her thoughts in this thread. --face reality Sep 14 06 09:11 am Link |
