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Models: what can I do to get your business?
Hi all, I'm new to using models (paid or TFCD/TFP). I've had positive opening correspondence with 4 models now but each time it doesn't get any further. With each of them I have offered to pay the rates or their terms for TFCD - but then nothing happens and I don't hear from them again. What do I have to do to take photographs of people? Are they waiting to get better offers before coming back to me, booked up until 2010, don't want to shoot with a newcomer, do I look dodgy/perverted... My mind is beginning to work overtime. What are other photographer's experiences of shooting models for the first time? DId you have trouble getting started? Models; is this normal behaviour, am I missing something that I should be doing better? There are no guarantees, but how can I maximise my "hit rate" with potential working partners? I'm not asking people to do things they don't want - I just need the experience and I have been taking photographs for over 25 years so I'm not a complete novice. Bottom line: I need models, but not just to send an initial message and then disappear. I need results, I need photos, I have money, hell, I'll even feed you - I know the work is tough and I want to make it easy. Just make a committment! Yours frustratedly, Michael Sep 13 06 08:36 am Link Michael, I feel your frustration. It does happen to models as well. I've made what I have thought a lot of good contacts and its either they disappear in my emails or no shows. I'm tired of the games and each time I think ok I've got to toss in the towel.......I don't. So something continues to drive me!! Heather Sep 13 06 08:40 am Link Ive been there as well ! You just need to be persistant when the right one comes around it will all fall into place. I can tell you after checking out your port I see nothing wrong I'd shoot with you in a heartbeat. Keep your head up it will all work out ! Sep 13 06 08:43 am Link Michael...I do not have any answers for you but can totally relate to your experiences because the same things happens to me as well. Just keep asking and you'll finaly get some good responses. I finally have two young ladies booked, now the question is.. WILL THEY SHOW UP? Sep 13 06 08:45 am Link Michael, You need more pictures of a better quality to attract people to you. I know, a catch 22. Try using friends and relatives for experimentation. Look at the portfolios of photographers you wish to emulate or compete with and give yourself an honest assessment of how you compare to them. Practice until your eyes bleed and build a body of work. Slowly the tide will turn and models will be calling you. That's how it works. Sep 13 06 08:46 am Link Heather...why anyone would cancel/no show with you is beyond me. Anyway, Michael it can be frustrating if the initial contact goes well and then nothing happens. Some are here for fun or as a hobby and don't take it too seriously, but there are the gems that, even if they are new, know that this is business. Keep contacting models that interest you and eventually things will get rolling. Sep 13 06 08:49 am Link Mike, when you find out let us in on the secert. Some of its location. Some of its marketing. Some means you'll need to have some of those every popular model with thong on shots which seems to get some models interested. If you live or work near a college place a ad in its paper or leave flyers. Try the local newspaper. I think MM and other websites are a poor place to get models. I was going to fly to N.Y. a while back and I was paying $25.00 to $50.00 per hour. Models called but wouldn't leave call back numbers. Emails that went on forever with no firm I'll be there. Same is happening for my Chicago trip. Although I have heard from lots of models. Hang in there though. Don't make it personal or about your work. Its not you in other words. You will find serious dependable models. When you get three or four work with them and treat them well. Money is cool but respect, lunch or dinner and thank yous along with the images will usually work. Sep 13 06 08:51 am Link It can be tough getting people to work with you. Start with friends and family or people you meet on the street. People you meet over the internet can be very unreliable. You will eventually meet one. Just be casual about it. Sep 13 06 08:51 am Link Bob Randall Photography wrote: I agree with this Bob, but I also have a problem with it. I am in the same boat as Michael is, and when I approach my friends about the possibility of posing they look at me like I'd just gotten hit with the stupid stick and it doesn't matter if I offer to pay/feed them. It's a no win situation almost. You can't get good unless you practice with people and you can't get the people to pose unless you're good. Sep 13 06 08:52 am Link Michael... These are just my suggestions. Take what you like from them, or nothing at all. 1 - Drop the self portrait from your portfolio. Having one there screams "I have nothing else to shoot". It can also suggest some kind of self vanity that is unattractive. Photographers who have been around a while and have a body of work can get away with having them. 2 - Hire a couple of models. Money *usually* gets a guaranteed model. Pose her as YOU like, you direct the shoot. Put the best of the bunch in your port. Get things off to a good start. You have mentioned you have offered to pay models their rates. Find a model YOU like who has a lot of work in their portfolio (track record of showing up for shoots) and offer her a decent rate to pose. She will show up. 3 - Until you demonstrate ability and get some real work into your portfolio, don't expect models to follow through on TFP shoots. If you have no evidence that you can shoot well, they'll have no motivation to shoot with you. See suggestion number two to solve this problem. 4 - I'd drop any reference to nudes from your portfolio text for now if its not something you're actively doing now. For a photographer with little to no work in their portfolio this text alone can be enough to send a newer model running away. Jim Sep 13 06 08:52 am Link Bob Randall Photography wrote: yeah... Sep 13 06 08:54 am Link Avicdar wrote: I thought that's what the thread was about? Sep 13 06 08:58 am Link Michael--- Drop the request for a muse. It sets up the model to think they need to be there long term. Just get ONE model and take some good pictures of HER. Then get ANOTHER. This to establish your portfolio and to give you the shootging skill that you DO need. AFTER you have a reasonable portfolio, ONLY then might a model consider to be your muse--they don't want to be a "muse in training"!! Also drop the desire to do nudes. Get non-nude photos FIRST! Don't even mention it and by all means don't try to persuade a model in that direction. Carry yourself COMPLETELY PROFESIONAL AT ALL TIMES WITH THE MODEL. No "off color perv" jokes at all. Be very upfront with your prespective model. Don't try to appear to be something you are not and try to remain humble. ALL photographers were, at one time, where you are--including the "greatest"!! I forgot--If you have a girl/boyfriend ask them to pose!! Several photos of my wife lead me to other models--of course they didn't know she was my wife though  Sep 13 06 08:59 am Link Waht the hell is a "MUSE" Sep 13 06 09:01 am Link Mike, although I respect my fellow shooters (Bob's the man for example.) Very often the 'quality' of your work has little to do with getting models to show and I should say people because there are woefully few real models on MM. There are lots of attractive people but models actually show for shoots and many of those here don't. Also consider that you are hearing from people so its the follow through thats not working. Talk to a female friend and see what she thinks of your emails and over all communication. If there is a modeling agency near you they might consider letting you test with a model or two. The newspaper ideal will get you models. Check out Craigslist which works better then MM'S casting call. There is a school of thought that a photographer should have images that appeal to models tastes. That on its face sounds good as it may get you more people but if its not what you shoot or want to shoot whats the point. Stay true to your vision. You may not have as many models as some of our successful photographers here. Models may love them for example but I often find that they work in the Peter Gowland school of glamor shots or worse yet Shutterbug level images or even worse the infamous thong photographers. Sep 13 06 09:05 am Link Studio Yeah-Yeah wrote: As I said, I'm an actor. I am 40 and quite professional Sep 13 06 09:06 am Link Studio Yeah-Yeah wrote: As I said, I'm an actor. I am 40 and quite professional Sep 13 06 09:06 am Link I agree with Studio Yeah Yeah...On your profile maybe drop the nude/ erotic stuff for now. Maybe open another page and drop the productions part of your name..Most people that say they are a production company..."at least on these sites" shoot porn. E-mail the model a copy of your release in advance...be up front with everything. If your willing to pay models contact the ones that say I do this for a living. Also try and contact models that have worked with many photographers..not just one or two. It doesn't matter so much of the photographers have done outstanding work... If a model has worked with 5-10 different photographers then there interested in building a portfolio. When I started I I diddn't pay them but I offered to travel to them and told them to bring someone with them if it made them more comfortable. Then be professional, get them their disc of finished photos quickly.. It is tough man..just keep at it.. In a few months you'll have 20 offeres a week.. Good Luck, Roy Sep 13 06 09:20 am Link Lol. I just noticed you've only been here for a few weeks. Give it some time. Sep 13 06 09:20 am Link shoot friends I started by shooting girl back I highschool We're talking over 20 years ago No internet no chat Had to ask nicely in person. Some strippers posed for me too. It's a catch 22 in some cases but that's life. Sep 13 06 09:21 am Link I'm hopeless as finding models. So I dont. My wife finds them ! You will be surprised at how much your status goes up if you wife books the models and assists at the shoots. L-von-b loves it and so do I. Sep 13 06 09:43 am Link keep your avatar, it has the most hits, so people are looking at it.. your communication is horrible, i can tell that you went to college, and that you are smart, possibly very smart.. smart people give me headches sometimes.. (i keed i keed) my front page is probably too thin maybe jazz up your page with some other pictures you've taken Sep 13 06 09:59 am Link Blakberi Productions wrote: It's a numbers game. Keep asking. What are other photographer's experiences of shooting models for the first time? DId you have trouble getting started? I hit up several models with the fact that I'm brand new, and I'd like to get started with it. I paid more for the first couple of models than I would pay now. I consider it dues to get into the club. I got some good photos out of that, and it helped me with bona fides when contacting other models. Plus I was polite and respectful, so they became good references. There are no guarantees, but how can I maximise my "hit rate" with potential working partners? If you have a positive response rate of 1 in 10, then if you ask 5 people, you might not get a good response at all. If you ask 30 people, you'll get a good response from 3. It's a numbers game. And the more and better photos you have, the higher the response rate will get. Bottom line: I need models, but not just to send an initial message and then disappear. I need results, I need photos, I have money, hell, I'll even feed you - I know the work is tough and I want to make it easy. Just make a committment! Make your initial inquiry thorough - this is what I'm looking to shoot, this is when I want to shoot, this is where I want to shoot. If they respond positively, follow up, and keep following up. It's not foolproof, but it helps. I've had just one no-show in my experience, and I expected that one. People tell me that's extraordinarily lucky, but I'll take it. Yours frustratedly, Having lived through teenage years, I can vouch that growth comes with a share of frustration. Sep 13 06 11:14 am Link Justin wrote: Blakberi Productions wrote: Thanks Justin. Yours is the most thorough advice (but thanks to everyone too). You phrase above though IS the catch 22 situation. Yeah, I'd love to put a pic in my avatar that draws models in, but first I've got to get that pic. When I do, I will change my avatar Sep 13 06 12:51 pm Link Dear Micheal, Alot of people just arent professional. I mean you are offering paid work and food! I am sure that there are alot of models who would like to work with you.....like me! I come from the East Midlands. Please have a look at my profile and get in touch (I'll even bring chocolate biscuits!!) All the best and good luck. Dania x Sep 13 06 01:04 pm Link dania kay wrote: Okay, let's set it up Sep 13 06 01:16 pm Link Blakberi Productions wrote: I know a lot of people have said something to this effect already, but it *is* about trust; Firstly trust in that you can provide the kind of high-qual images they're after, and secondly that you're a decent guy. Sep 13 06 01:26 pm Link You have mail. One photographer I worked with last week had 3 cancellations for the same shoot.....cursed!! Sep 13 06 01:27 pm Link Oh, and that 'predator' picture of yours is really freaky....excellent photograph but ewww I have chills runing down my back. Sep 13 06 01:29 pm Link Blakberi Productions wrote: You've gotten some good advice, perhaps not all easy to take. I'll add this - consider hiring a good MUA, and getting him/her to make some referrals for you, ask them if they know a good model or two that would work with you on the shoot.. pay + a good MUA will certainly help. Sep 13 06 01:37 pm Link Cynthia Rimmer wrote: Well I hope that if people want to see what else I do they can (like the lovely Dania Kay) check my deviant art site. Thta way at least I know they are checking up on me and seeing what I have done AND seeming more serious Sep 13 06 01:43 pm Link Any photographer that is willing to pay me will get my business. If you're ever in Chicago, let me know. My one stipulation: no nudity I don't know why some models flake on paying jobs yet they readily take TFP. Don't get me wrong TFP can be beneficial, but lets be honest, they don't pay the bills. Sep 13 06 01:43 pm Link btw, I can't stress enough how much I appreciate all of the above advice, I am taking (nearly) all of it on board Thank you Sep 13 06 01:45 pm Link DSMPhoto wrote: Couldn't put it any better...but I'll expand just a bit...it's very difficult to communicate through this hobby site...there are moderators who will not respond to business contacts...I would have very few expectations from this site...there are exceptions , though...there are some great, great models and photographers here... Sep 13 06 01:45 pm Link Illustrated Imagery wrote: I think thats what they put on the baskside of horses during parades. keeps mess to a minumum. Sep 13 06 01:55 pm Link ...Stacy wrote: I though it was what they have a lot of in Canada... u know, with the antlers? Sep 13 06 03:33 pm Link I just posted a thread about how people do not really do anything on mm or omp, but just play, meaning most models. Of course there are many who are serious as the photographers but I haven't found them and no in the midwest here! If you want to get sessions set up in days rather than months and then have a no show, go to a real modeling agency they will work with you if your shots are good. But please mm models if you contact photographers do the session! Otherwise get off the blasted site! Sep 14 06 01:05 am Link Oh, one more thing I have a post card size with picture business card/post card and I even ask people on the street. Get a short blurb together be honest and say you are building a book (portfolio) don't make them think of any other book, and say I would love to shoot you. Ask them their name and before they answer say first name only, this means you will not be looking them up in the phone book. Give them your card with your site on it, tell them to check it out and then call you if you would like to have the best pictures of yourself taken for free. No gimicks this is my work. Don't ask for their number, let them call you, they may or not, it isn't up to you. but usually it works, but they do call often weeks later, but always remember the name write it down, it helps when they call if you remember so the feel good about how you remembered them take notes on how they look and where you met them. Sep 14 06 01:14 am Link CL Photography wrote: That's great advice. Actually I do have a business card and I have approached people in the street too with zero returns so far. That was partly why I came here and felt great when I got 4 responses (it's 5 now!) I guess I just want results and it can be demoralising when trying something new after being successful in everything else Sep 14 06 01:21 am Link |
