jason messer wrote:
thanks for outing yourself as a total douchebag.

autism is a cruel condition affecting 1 in 166 children born.  thanks to our government, and rich pharma companies.

art is self expression.  just becuase YOU dont like it, or "get it" doesnt mean its garbage.

im sure you racked your brain thinking of that cute little ditty artistic/autistic.

but seriously....try some sympathy, and an open mind.

What he said.

And I've also had the pleasure of working with some exceptionally gifted autistic artists.

Don't judge them. You could learn from them.

Now please crawl back under your filthy little stone..

jason messer wrote:
thanks for outing yourself as a total douchebag.

yow!  guess this is a pretty sensitive topic!

jason messer wrote:
autism is a cruel condition affecting 1 in 166 children born.  thanks to our government, and rich pharma companies.

Hey, if you're going to toss out whacko conspiracy theories, maybe you could post some amusing links to support your "position" that autism is a benefit from "our government, and rich pharma companies."  The wackier the ideas, the less likely people are to take them seriously so some links to your "evidence" would be a step in the right direction.

jason messer wrote:
art is self expression.  just becuase YOU dont like it, or "get it" doesnt mean its garbage.

The poster never said it was garbage. It's not clear to me exactly what he meant. Alot of room for interpretation here.  Or leaping to conclusions.

jason messer wrote:
and an open mind.

kettle, black ...

Garry k wrote:
Some people dont know the difference and think both are the same ,seriously .

Verbal autism at it's most contrived.

Bleh! I say to you.

Curt Burgess wrote:
Hey, if you're going to toss out whacko conspiracy theories, maybe you could post some amusing links to support your "position" that autism is a benefit from "our government, and rich pharma companies."

do yourself a favor.  do just a little research....

mercury is a neurotoxin, right?  no brainer.  check out the amount of mecury the cdc says will destroy your brain.

then add up the collective amount of mercury in childrens vaccines.

then look up how the research done to link autism and vaccines was paid for....by pharma companies.

if mercury was of no harm.....why did they remove it?

why has cases of autism rapidly climbed with the increase of vaccine schedules?

ten years ago it was rare.  now....1 in 166 kids will be born with some type of autism.

if the amount of mercury we inject into our children was laying on the floor.  it would be a biohazard.  as photographers we know how we arent even allowed to wash a metal (silver) down the drain.  but why can we inject a metal into our children?

the original poster equated some peoples vision of art as "autistic".  im sorry i jumped to the conclusion he was saying that in a negative way.  ive never heard anyone think autism was "good".

open mind?  because i dont think someone should call another persons work...autistic? 

sorry to be a "conspiracy theorist"  its true...our gov would NEVER do something not in the publics best interest....tuskegee...katrina response...iraq war...iran contra...noreaga...the way we treated americans with japanese heritage during wwII...etc...etc...etc.

the flag looks better when its not wrapped around your eyes.

jason messer wrote:
thanks for outing yourself as a total douchebag.

autism is a cruel condition affecting 1 in 166 children born.  thanks to our government, and rich pharma companies.

art is self expression.  just becuase YOU dont like it, or "get it" doesnt mean its garbage.

im sure you racked your brain thinking of that cute little ditty artistic/autistic.

but seriously....try some sympathy, and an open mind.

Wow ,talk about judgmental .... douchebag ?????

I implied no judgemet of either ,,,,I simply posted the thread cuz I once met an mildy autistic fellow ( who was also artistic ) who told me that as  child he had been diagnosed as "artistic" - but maybe he meant artistic , or maybe he meant autistic artistic ... I dunno

Curt Burgess wrote:
Hey, if you're going to toss out whacko conspiracy theories, maybe you could post some amusing links to support your "position" that autism is a benefit from "our government, and rich pharma companies."

jason messer wrote:
do yourself a favor.  do just a little research....

mercury is a neurotoxin, right?  no brainer.  check out the amount of mecury the cdc says will destroy your brain.

I could do some research on this, but why should I?  You made the conspiracy claim and provided no support.  I asked you to provide some support.  And you reply with a directive to "do just a little research." 

Here's how it works when you're not in your little fantasy world, Jason ... you make the claim, you provide the evidence. 

Are you aware, Jason, of anywhere where it works differently?  Why would I want to "do a little research" to try and find support for your wacked out claim?  (and you also, most peculiarly, put this in the context of doing myself a favor!)

So provide some credible links to some evidence or you wont be taken seriously. Right now your first post and very much now with this lame ass second post reply to me, you just seem like a crackpot.  Gosh, I hate to see that.  So redeem yourself and take some responsibility by YOU doing some research for YOUR claim.

You sure wrote a bunch of stuff in your reply but why should anyone believe what you say about this?  You're no authority. 

Do yourself a favor and see if you can avoid looking like a complete crackpot with this stuff.

jason messer wrote:
then add up the collective amount of mercury in childrens vaccines.

then look up how the research done to link autism and vaccines was paid for....by pharma companies.

if mercury was of no harm.....why did they remove it?

why has cases of autism rapidly climbed with the increase of vaccine schedules?

I read somewhere that a lot of people in prison have admitted to eating jelly beans.  Clearly then, the consumption of jelly beans leads to criminal behavior.

The logic behind this is very, very flawed.

LarryB wrote:
I read somewhere that a lot of people in prison have admitted to eating jelly beans.  Clearly then, the consumption of jelly beans leads to criminal behavior.

The logic behind this is very, very flawed.

dude....in short. 

1. the gov. says mercury is a neurotoxin (that aint up for debate)
2. the same gov. *said* it was ok to give to infants.
3. the same gov.  has since removed it.

if it aint broke...why fix it?

jason messer wrote:
fda list of things containg Methylmercury.....(look at the last one, Thimerosal the preservative in vaccines)

That's nice, but there hasn't been Thimerosal in vaccines for at least a couple years now, but there are still children being diagnosed with autism.  So how do we explain the autism in children within the last couple of years?

Here's a wild theory, and I know this is way, way out there... but could it be that part of the rise in the incidence of autism diagnosis is an increased awareness of the disorder and earlier and more effective diagnosis? 


Naw... that couldn't be it.

jackass wrote:
I read somewhere that a lot of people in prison have admitted to eating jelly beans.  Clearly then, the consumption of jelly beans leads to criminal behavior.

The logic behind this is very, very flawed.

jason messer wrote:
wow...you're smart.

dude....in short. 

1. the gov. says mercury is a neurotoxin (that aint up for debate)
2. the same gov. *said* it was ok to give to infants.
3. the same gov.  has since removed it.

if it aint broke...why fix it?

Awwwww... you were so close to having an intelligent discussion too.  But you had to resort to name calling.  I'm not having a discussion with somebody who resorts to schoolyard tactics.

jason messer wrote:
now...when did they remove the thimeresol?  that would put the fist kids recieving thimerosol free vaccines at what age? hmmmm.

Dunno, do they resort to name-calling rather than discussion?

Garry k wrote:
Some people dont know the difference and think both are the same ,seriously .

there are far better ways to vent & rant

poor form chap

LarryB wrote:

That's nice, but there hasn't been Thimerosal in vaccines for at least a couple years now, but there are still children being diagnosed with autism.  So how do we explain the autism in children within the last couple of years?

Here's a wild theory, and I know this is way, way out there... but could it be that part of the rise in the incidence of autism diagnosis is an increased awareness of the disorder and earlier and more effective diagnosis? 


Naw... that couldn't be it.

I chuckle every time I read the whole "Autism vs. Vaccines" argument. So much misinformation out there. I say that because my fiancé has 18 years of experience in research and clinical treatment of autism, and is a well published and recognized professional in the field. Whenever she hears this argument she freaks out.

And yes, the major reason for the rise in statistical numbers is a fundamental change in how the DSM classifies autism, and just how good we've gotten at identifying the spectrum of disorders that fall under that.

There is also a problem of purposeful misdiagnosis. Children with autism get a high level of services in the public school system and sometimes doctors will apply the autism diagnosis to a MR child so that their parent receives additional services and help. This can also artificially inflate the statistical numbers as well.

So when our close friends ask "Should I get these vaccines for my child? I've heard all of these horrible things about it giving them autism!" she always responds "The risk of NOT vaccinating your child so far outweighs any theoretical and UNPROVEN risk of the link between the two."

Seriously, if you want to be paranoid about neurotoxins, do some homework and be prepared to run off and live in the woods.

-G

Garald Todd wrote:
I chuckle every time I read the whole "Autism vs. Vaccines" argument. So much misinformation out there. I say that because my fiancé has 18 years of experience in research and clinical treatment of autism, and is a well published and recognized professional in the field. Whenever she hears this argument she freaks out.

And yes, the major reason for the rise in statistical numbers is a fundamental change in how the DSM classifies autism, and just how good we've gotten at identifying the spectrum of disorders that fall under that.

There is also a problem of purposeful misdiagnosis. Children with autism get a high level of services in the public school system and sometimes doctors will apply the autism diagnosis to a MR child so that their parent receives additional services and help. This can also artificially inflate the statistical numbers as well.

So when our close friends ask "Should I get these vaccines for my child? I've heard all of these horrible things about it giving them autism!" she always responds "The risk of NOT vaccinating your child so far outweighs any theoretical and UNPROVEN risk of the link between the two."

Seriously, if you want to be paranoid about neurotoxins, do some homework and be prepared to run off and live in the woods.

-G

There are a huge amount of scientist and researchers who believe there is a link. The  neurobehaivor clinic at the University of Utah is on the forefront of the research as is the University of California. Just as with anything there are those who believe in this and there are those who don't.

As far as getting more services for autism in schools verse's the MR diagnosis you are way off base. I also live in Las Vegas. I have a son in the public schools here. It wasn't until they decided to reclassify him as having MR that he got more services. In fact, a child classified as MR can recieve Social Security disability which then allows them to recieve medicaid and further funding from the state. A child with the diagnosis of autism doesn't even get acknowledged by the federal goverment. So why would they choose to be diagnosed as having autism over MR? They wouldn't.  Perhaps doing some research about what autism is and isn't you would understand the difference between it and MR.

Sky Above wrote:
There are a huge amount of scientist and researchers who believe there is a link. The  neurobehaivor clinic at the University of Utah is on the forefront of the research as is the University of California. Just as with anything there are those who believe in this and there are those who don't.

This is useless "information" unless you provide a link to a reference.

Sky Above wrote:
There are a huge amount of scientist and researchers who believe there is a link. The  neurobehaivor clinic at the University of Utah is on the forefront of the research as is the University of California. Just as with anything there are those who believe in this and there are those who don't.

You're absolutely right. On one side you have parents who are upset and want answers, a cause, someone to blame even, and you have doctors who all want to be the one to figure out this 'cause' of autism, and on the other side, you have people who accept the problem to be far more complex then just not vaccinating your children.

The conspiracy theorists, in my opinion, are harmful to children in that they assume pharama's are in the business of hurting children. Like someone said above, they removed mercury from the vaccines so it was obviously causing autism. The basic fact of it is, if there is a slight chance (even unproven) that it was, and the vaccine could now be done without it, why NOT remove it? Not vaccinating your children opens them up to a /lot/ of nasty stuff. I know for a fact I'll be vaccinating mine without a second thought.

At worst, it's a calculated risk. Life is a series of calculated risks. And this was ultimately my main point - the risk of not vaccinating your children far out weighs the risk of vaccinating them. This is a hard pill to swallow for those few children who are adversely affected by the vaccine, however, and their anger and bitterness over it is understandable.

For anyone who’s really debating this, I encourage them to speak to a doctor and make informed decisions about your child’s health. Get second and third opinions.

As far as getting more services for autism in schools verse's the MR diagnosis you are way off base. I also live in Las Vegas. I have a son in the public schools here. It wasn't until they decided to reclassify him as having MR that he got more services.

I just got off the phone with my fiancé and I asked her about this. This is really dependent upon the programs at your specific school. Sometimes an autism diagnosis opens up services a child solely with disabilities wouldn't have, like speech and language, for instance.  One half day preschool vs. full day, etc. There are pros and cons to everything and in certain circumstances, an Autism diagnosis is more beneficial due to extra compensatory time. (Please be aware I'm essentially parroting my fiancé)

In fact, a child classified as MR can recieve Social Security disability which then allows them to recieve medicaid and further funding from the state. A child with the diagnosis of autism doesn't even get acknowledged by the federal goverment.

Children with Autism can, and do get Medicaid. She has many parents of children with Autism that do. Neither of us have any idea what you're talking about when you say autism isn't acknowledged by the federal government??

Perhaps doing some research about what autism is and isn't you would understand the difference between it and MR.

Sigh... okay. I'm just some name on a website so I'll just ignore that. I understand (fractionally) why you would make that statement.

With that said, my hat goes off to you as a mother of a child with disabilities. I have nothing but respect and admiration for anyone who loves and cares for those not as fortunate as ourselves.

My future wife has devoted her life to helping children with Autism and their parents.  We spent a month in Africa at Tanzania's only school for Autism and.. talk about an eye opening experience.

Feel free to stop by our gallery some time and you can talk to her yourself. We'd love to have you down there. Who knows, maybe she can give you some tips or insight into navigating our sometimes.. difficult school district.

-G
http://www.archinofsky.com

jason messer wrote:
mercury is a neurotoxin, right?  no brainer.

jason messer wrote:
http://www.fda.gov/oc/opacom/mehgadvisory1208.html

this is about mercury in fish. Nothing about autism.  You're not making a case about autistic fish, are you? There's no linkage here.

jason messer wrote:
http://www.fda.gov/cder/pediatric/presentation/mercury-lead_osorio/sld013.htm

This is a slide from someone's powerpoint presentation detailing historical dangers of mercury, including a point about vacines.

Not very informative. No links to sources.

jason messer wrote:
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/thimerosal-AAP&PHS.htm

Here is the conclusion from the page YOU cite: "Furthermore, there are no data or evidence of any harm caused by the level of exposure that some children may have encountered in following the existing immunization schedule. Infants and children who have received thimerosal-containing vaccines do not need to be tested for mercury exposure."

jason messer wrote:
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/joint_statement_00.htm

This is from the site YOU refer to above: "thimerosal should be removed from vaccines as soon as possible. However, there remains no convincing evidence of harm caused by low levels of thimerosal in vaccines."

jason messer wrote:
http://library.thinkquest.org/10339/ttl/

READ THIS TIMELINE....LOOK HOW LONG IT TOOK.  UNDERSTAND WE ARE GOING THROUGH THE SAME THING RIGHT NOW.

This is about tobacco. Not autism. Why should anyone buy your analogy? You confuse correlation with causation.  Over half of your entire post had to do with smoking! Not linking your concerns to autism. 

jason messer wrote:
dude, the writing is on the wall here.  it just depends if you want to read it. 

can you provide one link from anywhere credible saying mercury has absolutley NO negative effects?  can you explain why the FDA banned thimerosol from everything BUT vaccines?  sounds like politics to me....i didnt think so.

First of all, you can't prove a negative like you're suggesting.  In a way, I suppose the fact that mercury has been used extensively since the 1930s with no apparent wave of mercury poisening is evidence for this.

From several of the sites you refer to it is clear that major efforts are taking place to remove mercury ingredients from products. It has recently taken out of most products with the clear goal outlines on the sites you refer to of removing it all eventually.

http://www.healing-arts.org/children/va … ercury.htm
Here's a quote from a site that is an advocate for YOUR position:

"Purported links between mercury and autism still remain speculative".

In fact, this is an interesting site.  Describes how the mercury limits for infants for vaccines were very conservative and based on one study.  The entire amount of mercury an infant might get for all vaccines is the amount found in one can of tuna.

One confusing thing (and you seem to be easily confused) is that some symptoms of mercury poisoning are similar to some symptoms of autism.

There certainly are sites out there that promote this direct relationship idea. One of them is
http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller14.html which is a great example of a fearmongering site. They describe all kinds of finds that are correlations and present them as cause and effect. They also describe all kinds of stats which sound horrible but no comparison stats (like a control condition) are presented so we can know the context.

You have generated a really bizzare rant - really hysterical and fearmongering. A complete lack of critical thinking and an incoherent linking of things that do not have any  compelling link.  Every site you referred to you took information out of context and ignored on those same sites direct statements that in the levels found in products that there is no evidence that it is harmful.

There is evidence for harmful levels of mercury at times in fish, but that wasn't your arguement.  You would be on much stronger grounds if you were making the case to autistic fish!

A final comment to readers: Jason's post which was a reply to my  request that he back up his claims is a great example of how someone can post some sources but you really need to check them out. Superficially his reply seemed to have some substance with the quotes and links. However, his references were either irrelevant, or were taken out of context.  Two actually came to the opposite conclusion he was spinning!

This mercury hysteria is just another one of those conspiracy theories out there that capture the attention of people who can't apply critical thinking to a problem. Here's a couple links to the conspiracy theory of mercury:

http://independentsources.com/2006/04/1 … -the-dust/

http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2005/06/s … -down.html
This one is very interesting. Here's the blurb:  "... Deadly Immunity (which was a "coinvestigation" by Salon.com and Rolling Stone--a magazine whose attempts at investigative journalism I haven't taken seriously in years). It's a one-sided account by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. of the supposed link between thimerosal in vaccines and autism that is being promoted by antivaccine activists as an indictment of the government and pharmaceutical companies."

Curt Burgess wrote:

This is useless "information" unless you provide a link to a reference.

One word. Google

I don't have links only many doctors names as my son was involved in the research study at one of the universities.

As far as getting more services for autism in schools verse's the MR diagnosis you are way off base. I also live in Las Vegas. I have a son in the public schools here. It wasn't until they decided to reclassify him as having MR that he got more s

In fact, a child classified as MR can recieve Social Security disability which then allows them to recieve medicaid and further funding from the state. A child with the diagnosis of autism doesn't even get acknowledged by the federal goverment.

Children with Autism can, and do get Medicaid. She has many parents of children with Autism that do. Neither of us have any idea what you're talking about when you say autism isn't acknowledged by the federal government??

Perhaps doing some research about what autism is and isn't you would understand the difference between it and MR.

I should have worded it differently. The federal goverment doesn't recognize autism as a disability in children for social security disability reasons. It is possible to recieve medicaid in Nevada as the state has fortunately found a loop hole in the social security which automatically allows a child to be eligible for medicaid. Sadly, most states do have the finacial means to follow through with this same "loop hole."  It's called the Family Preservation Fund

Sigh... okay. I'm just some name on a website so I'll just ignore that. I understand (fractionally) why you would make that statement.

My tone comes from those that are so certain they are correct they do not open themselves up to the possibility that possibly this is all true. I admire your future wife for the work she has done. But I've seen my son and many others suffer from vaccinations first hand.

Did you know Japan has the lowest rate of autism in the industrial world? They do not give any vaccinations to the children until they are at least two years old. They believe the vaccinations can damage their devoloping nervous system.

Either way the world is much better place when we can all agree to disagree, but to continue to educate ourselves.

Curt Burgess wrote:
This is useless "information" unless you provide a link to a reference.

Sky Above wrote:
One word. Google

I don't have links only many doctors names as my son was involved in the research study at one of the universities.

I'll give you more than one word. Your reply is a smartass, bullshit, irresponsible response. Like I said above with Jason, it's not MY responsibility to hunt down sources for YOUR claims.  If YOU can't support YOUR claim, then YOU are in a very lame position - you're doing nothing more than tossing out an unsubstantiated claim. No need to get all pissy on me.

So why don't you be a responsible adult and back up what you're tossing out here in this discussion. Your "google" response is bullshit for another reason than your irresponsibility - you haven't provided sufficient information for someone to even begin to search out your claim.  So don't argue like a 12 year old - be an adult and back up your claim.

My experience has been when people can't back up their argument, they don't have one. All they have is an unsubstantiated opinion.  I find it astonishing that you think this is a problem with your kid and you can't provide any source.   You got nothing.

Curt Burgess wrote:
A final comment to readers: Jason's post which was a reply to my  request that he back up his claims is a great example of how someone can post some sources but you really need to check them out. Superficially his reply seemed to have some substance with the quotes and links. However, his references were either irrelevant, or were taken out of context.  Two actually came to the opposite conclusion he was spinning!

Nice work Curt.  I didn't have anywhere near enough ambition to answer his post in such detail.

LarryB wrote:
Nice work Curt.  I didn't have anywhere near enough ambition to answer his post in such detail.

Thanks!  I was offended by the intellectually misleading nature of his reply.

Wynd Mulysa wrote:
All I see here is someone's attempt to make a joke, which I thought was a kind of cute [yet insensitive] saying, that has caused people too lazy to do research on their own, and assume whatever they'd like to about things, to get pissed off when someone who knows more about a subject than they do doesn't spend hours explaining themselves [but they do spend some time to back up their points and it goes ignored, pretty much.]

So... Where is this going?
Either educate yourself or lack intellegence.

I thought the OP offered the post as a joke too but then immediately it got reacted to.

Wynd Mulysa wrote:
But don't argue about it.

But some of us get a kick out of arguing about things!!

Curt Burgess wrote:

Curt Burgess wrote:
This is useless "information" unless you provide a link to a reference.

I'll give you more than one word. Your reply is a smartass, bullshit, irresponsible response. Like I said above with Jason, it's not MY responsibility to hunt down sources for YOUR claims.  If YOU can't support YOUR claim, then YOU are in a very lame position - you're doing nothing more than tossing out an unsubstantiated claim. No need to get all pissy on me.

So why don't you be a responsible adult and back up what you're tossing out here in this discussion. Your "google" response is bullshit for another reason than your irresponsibility - you haven't provided sufficient information for someone to even begin to search out your claim.  So don't argue like a 12 year old - be an adult and back up your claim.

My experience has been when people can't back up their argument, they don't have one. All they have is an unsubstantiated opinion.  I find it astonishing that you think this is a problem with your kid and you can't provide any source.   You got nothing.

Feel better?

Sky Above wrote:
Did you know Japan has the lowest rate of autism in the industrial world? They do not give any vaccinations to the children until they are at least two years old. They believe the vaccinations can damage their devoloping nervous system.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7076

Specifically important to this particular discussion:

They found the cases continued to multiply after the vaccine withdrawal, ranging from 48 to 86 cases per 10,000 children before withdrawal to 97 to 161 per 10,000 afterwards. The same pattern was seen with a particular form of autism in which children appear to develop normally and then suddenly regress - the form linked to MMR by Wakefield.

The study cannot rule out the possibility that MMR triggers autism in a tiny number of children, as some claim, but it does show there is no large-scale effect. The vaccine "cannot have caused autism in the many children with autism spectrum disorders in Japan who were born and grew up in the era when MMR was not available", Honda concludes.

So if the vaccine is not responsible for the rising rates of autism, what is? "Clearly some environmental factors are causing the increases," says Irva Hertz-Picciotto of the University of California at Davis, US. Other experts disagree, saying the apparent rise could be the result of changing diagnostic criteria and the rising profile of the disorder (New Scientist print edition, 17 February 2001).

-G

Curt Burgess wrote:
...
So why don't you be a responsible adult and back up what you're tossing out here in this discussion. Your "google" response is bullshit for another reason than your irresponsibility - you haven't provided sufficient information for someone to even begin to search out your claim.  So don't argue like a 12 year old - be an adult and back up your claim.

... You got nothing.

Sky Above wrote:
Feel better?

Garald Todd wrote:
....So if the vaccine is not responsible for the rising rates of autism, what is? "Clearly some environmental factors are causing the increases," says Irva Hertz-Picciotto of the University of California at Davis, US. Other experts disagree, saying the apparent rise could be the result of changing diagnostic criteria and the rising profile of the disorder (New Scientist print edition, 17 February 2001).

Very informative source!

Curt Burgess wrote:

Very informative source!

It's interesting, but like many things, you can find voices of decent against Dr. Honda's study as well.

From the perspective of someone outside the field, it's entirely /too/ much information to accurately absorb. What data is correct, who is right? Why are there so many contrary reports? Sometimes it's pretty easy to spot extremist nutjobs (*cough* redflag *cough) but othertimes the lines get blurred.

I'm thankful that I have someone who's been in the trenches of this debate for almost two decades to help me make informed decisions about the health of our future children.

Anyway, off to dinner with me mum.. it's her birthday!

-G

Garry k wrote:
Some people dont know the difference and think both are the same ,seriously .

, quote=Curt Burgess] 

Curt Burgess wrote:
This is useless "information" unless you provide a link to a reference.

Sky Above wrote:
One word. Google

I don't have links only many doctors names as my son was involved in the research study at one of the universities.

I'll give you more than one word. Your reply is a smartass, bullshit, irresponsible response. Like I said above with Jason, it's not MY responsibility to hunt down sources for YOUR claims.  If YOU can't support YOUR claim, then YOU are in a very lame position - you're doing nothing more than tossing out an unsubstantiated claim. No need to get all pissy on me.

So why don't you be a responsible adult and back up what you're tossing out here in this discussion. Your "google" response is bullshit for another reason than your irresponsibility - you haven't provided sufficient information for someone to even begin to search out your claim.  So don't argue like a 12 year old - be an adult and back up your claim.

My experience has been when people can't back up their argument, they don't have one. All they have is an unsubstantiated opinion.  I find it astonishing that you think this is a problem with your kid and you can't provide any source.   You got nothing.

Quote above
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



I cant believe that the moderators of this site allow you bash people in this derogatory manor over a subject that is obviously very sensitive to some people. I seriously doubt you have children yourself. Ya know for either one of you or anyone to belittle another person and certainly children shows no class, and no character. I pray neither one of you has children that are handicapped, autistic or in anyway for lack of a better word messed up. All you had to do was rephrase the subject to something less controversial and it would have diffused the whole situation. All I can say is karma is a bitch.

"Never take the advice of someone who has not had your kind of trouble."...S J Harris

Garry k wrote:
Some people dont know the difference and think both are the same ,seriously .

Im a little of both or should I say
htob fo elttil a m'I