ert3006 wrote:
OK lets give it some context:

you're setting up a shoot with a model.  she is the only model willing to do the propsed shoot, lets say a public nude thing.  now she may have an unflattering backside.  do you lie, and tell her her ass is great and keep shaking it, or do you tell the truth?

You don't have to destroy her self esteem, and at the same time you dont have to lie to her.. You just tell her you prefer her front... period.. you are not lying and you are not telling your your ass is nasty... there! No need to lie!

ert3006 wrote:
I mean, sometimes it is Waaaaaaaay eaisier to lie...

I think people use the term "honesty" too broadly.

To me, honesty is not lying.

Some people take "honesty" further, to mean complete and full disclosure. But sometimes I think it's appropriate to hold our tongues and not tell someone everything we know and think. To me, this isn't dishonest.

For example, if you are a salesperson at Macy's, and a customer is trying on a dress and asks you if it fits, it would be dishonest to tell here that it does, when it clearly doesn't. On the other hand, if you tell her it looks like shit on her, it may be honest, but inappropriate.

bang bang photo wrote:

I think people use the term "honesty" too broadly.

To me, honesty is not lying.

Some people take "honesty" further, to mean complete and full disclosure. But sometimes I think it's appropriate to hold our tongues and not tell someone everything we know and think. To me, this isn't dishonest.

For example, if you are a salesperson at Macy's, and a customer is trying on a dress and asks you if it fits, it would be dishonest to tell here that it does, when it clearly doesn't. On the other hand, if you tell her it looks like shit on her, it may be honest, but inappropriate.

What about lying by omission?  where does that fit in?

ert3006 wrote:
OK lets give it some context:

you're setting up a shoot with a model.  she is the only model willing to do the propsed shoot, lets say a public nude thing.  now she may have an unflattering backside.  do you lie, and tell her her ass is great and keep shaking it, or do you tell the truth?

You say, "Look fatty, stop shakin' what yo mamma gave ya, and turn around..."

...or....

You could tell her that the concept you're looking for is from the front (tell her this BEFORE the shoot) and stick with only that. If you end up shooting her backside, see if she likes any of the pictures....

Then, of course, you run into the problem of her posting pictures that you don't like (I hear photogs complain about this all the time)...but, if the photography is strong enough in each of them, then those viewing it will see that, and just not like the model instead.

Then again...there are so many a$$ shots on here with compliments out the wahzoo that even if her backside is purple and lumpy, people are going to like it.

-D

ert3006 wrote:

What about lying by omission?  where does that fit in?

I think intent begins to enter in at that point. For example, when Clinton said, "I did not have sex with that woman!" while looking sternly into the camera, he was lying, because he knew that he had in fact splooged all over the front of Monica's dress -- an act that the average human being would consider to be sex, even if he didn't. His intent was to deceive -- otherwise he would have said, "hey, I didn't fuck her -- she just sucked me off. What's the big deal?"

I think there is a fine but often bright line between adequate disclosure, and damaging confession.

Daniela V wrote:

You say, "Look fatty, stop shakin' what yo mamma gave ya, and turn around..."

...or....

You could tell her that the concept you're looking for is from the front (tell her this BEFORE the shoot) and stick with only that. If you end up shooting her backside, see if she likes any of the pictures....

Then, of course, you run into the problem of her posting pictures that you don't like (I hear photogs complain about this all the time)...but, if the photography is strong enough in each of them, then those viewing it will see that, and just not like the model instead.


Then again...there are so many a$$ shots on here with compliments out the wahzoo that even if her backside is purple and lumpy, people are going to like it.

-D

OK that was one hypothetical.  what about when a model who is bored or hard up for work tells a photographer that she like his work/concept/direction, when really she wants to say, listen I'm bored shoot me i don't care what it looks like!

ert3006 wrote:
OK that was one hypothetical.  what about when a model who is bored or hard up for work tells a photographer that she like his work/concept/direction, when really she wants to say, listen I'm bored shoot me i don't care what it looks like!

Yeah...that doesn't work because you're assuming that's what she means. Maybe she really does like the photogs. work.

Furthermore, there are plenty of models on here that probably shouldn't be models that think they look like Tyra or Giselle. Plenty. So...not caring what they look like...or maybe having a very high opinion of themselves.

Next hypothetical please.

Daniela V wrote:

Yeah...that doesn't work because you're assuming that's what she means. Maybe she really does like the photogs. work.

Furthermore, there are plenty of models on here that probably shouldn't be models that think they look like Tyra or Giselle. Plenty. So...not caring what they look like...or maybe having a very high opinion of themselves.

Next hypothetical please.

NEXT:

the model doesn't get the concept.  does she tell the photographer that she does because she really wants to work with them, or does she tell them she doesn't get it, explain it again, and again, and again, until she does get it.

ert3006 wrote:
NEXT:

the model doesn't get the concept.  does she tell the photographer that she does because she really wants to work with them, or does she tell them she doesn't get it, explain it again, and again, and again, until she does get it.

That's so easy and falls out of your realm of question.

Every model thinks they understand the concept. The photographer is the idiot.

Personally, I will keep asking, but most photographers can't explain. So I just do whatever the hell I deem fit.

I'm sorry- I'm so tired. And when I'm tired, I find myself funny.

and THAT is the God's honest truth.

-D

Alexa wrote:
"If you're going to tell people the truth, you better make them laugh; otherwise they'll kill you." - George Bernard Shaw

Good one