Photographer
Scott Evans
Posts: 385
Cypress, California, US
I am working on a art project that requires full nudity. I have run into models who say they do nudes, but then when it is time to shoot they only go topless.
I mean I grew up in New Orleans and even there they had topless bars and "all nude" bars. Topless meant no top, hence the word TOPLESS? Nude meant, well nude, as in nothing on? We can put a man on the moon but yet we struggle with this simple distinction?
So I ask, is topless ans nude the same thing or should a model list to what degree they will go nude? I am NOT looking to piss anyone off, just asking a for real question!
Photographer
Tropical Photography
Posts: 35564
Sarasota, Florida, US
IMHO, nude means your birthday suit. Anything less and it's not nude.. If a model is only willing to show breasts, she needs to say topless only or semi nude to which most was would infer topless only. Oddly, for those that say implied but go with hand bra and hand panties, I'd tell them their nude but shy.. 
Photographer
Pat Thielen
Posts: 16800
Hastings, Minnesota, US
Topless to me isn't nude. When you advertise for a nude project, that's what it means -- no clothes. I'd suggest you make sure any models you work with know this before they get to your studio. Also, make sure they're completely comfortable with modeling nude; if they are nervous it will show in the photos. I would try to only get models who are experienced and comfortable with nude modeling and who know the difference between "topless" and "nude."
-P-
Photographer
Harold Rose
Posts: 2925
Calhoun, Georgia, US
Keith aka Wolfie wrote:
IMHO, nude means your birthday suit. Anything less and it's not nude.. If a model is only willing to show breasts, she needs to say topless only or semi nude to which most was would infer topless only.
Oddly, for those that say implied but go with hand bra and hand panties, I'd tell them their nude but shy.. To me being in the business for 60 years, in the 50's nude meant nothing at all on.. In the 90's nude was with no clothes at all, Maybe things changed for the new millinimum but I have no argument when we agree on nude being minus all clothes of any kind No semi-nude might mean something else..
Photographer
Moraxian
Posts: 2607
Germantown, Maryland, US
I would think that nude means no clothes or any other wardrobe... but apparently it can mean shoes...
Photographer
J & X Photography
Posts: 3767
Arlington, Virginia, US
is a topless shot cropped waist high nude?
partial nudity is still nudity. Just not full nudity, get it? Kinda like full-frontal and implied penetration in the porn industry (soft vs hard core porn)
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 22898
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna
If they will take their top off but not show their nipples is it topless?
MOST IDIOTIC STATEMENT MADE BY A MODEL:
I will only do "covered nude"
D U H !!!
Studio36
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 22898
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna
Moraxian wrote:
I would think that nude means no clothes or any other wardrobe... but apparently it can mean shoes... Might not be "nude" in Canada if they are wearing shoes. Couple of years ago some lad in the Toronto PRIDE PARADE was arrested for public nudity and went to court. The court agreed that, as he was wearing shoes, he was NOT nude. Case dismissed.
Studio36
Photographer
imagine studios
Posts: 19
Chicago, Illinois, US
I took on a project (paid ) for a local art director,I hired a model that said that she does nudes. We shot the poses that were asked for in her bra and panties,sent them off for the ok. When we were ready to shoot the final images(hair,mua waiting) she shows up steps into the set-bra and panties. Refuses to be nude. I had to send her in her way. I hired another model -It ended that I paid the client by the time I was done. Now when told that the model does nudes(when required) the test is nude -no exceptions. This gets rid of the bad ones before they cost me anything. Models: if you claim to do nudes to get work you might be hired to do nudes,not underwear,or swimsuit!
Photographer
Pat Thielen
Posts: 16800
Hastings, Minnesota, US
imagine studios wrote:
I took on a project (paid ) for a local art director,I hired a model that said that she does nudes. We shot the poses that were asked for in her bra and panties,sent them off for the ok. When we were ready to shoot the final images(hair,mua waiting) she shows up steps into the set-bra and panties. Refuses to be nude. I had to send her in her way. I hired another model -It ended that I paid the client by the time I was done. Now when told that the model does nudes(when required) the test is nude -no exceptions. This gets rid of the bad ones before they cost me anything. Models: if you claim to do nudes to get work you might be hired to do nudes,not underwear,or swimsuit! Okay... that was totally lame. Why would a model lie about something like that, and go through with the test shots without bothering to tell anyone? Did she think you wouldn't find out? It's really too bad she cost you time, effort and money. But at least the client got their shots.
What part of the word "nude" didn't she understand...? Some peoples' kids...
-P-
Photographer
Pat Thielen
Posts: 16800
Hastings, Minnesota, US
I actually prefer to work with models who are comfortable with nudity regardless if she's clothed or not. It's just one less thing I have to worry about...
Photographer
Dudley Watson
Posts: 1737
Roseburg, Oregon, US
Topless is an issue? This depends upon the gender of the model!
Seriously, the issue and diffenition of 'nude' should be resolved beforehand. Review the models portfolio (it's not there just to look at pretty pictures). See what she is comfortable with. ASK, if in doubt. If she gives evasive answers or seems non-commital, move on to someone who will work WITH you.
Respect the models restrictions (if she has them), but be honest with her for any rejection.
Model
Wynd Mulysa
Posts: 8619
Berkeley, California, US
Scott Evans wrote:
I am working on a art project that requires full nudity. I have run into models who say they do nudes, but then when it is time to shoot they only go topless.
So I ask, is topless ans nude thesame thing or should a model list to what degree they will go nude? I am NOT looking to piss anyone off, just asking a for real question! No. They're not the same.
Maybe it's your communication.
Usually the photographer I'm working with says something like "Let's get some nude shots, now."
And I have never thought they meant topless.
Photographer
Chris Macan
Posts: 12993
HAVERTOWN, Pennsylvania, US
It's nude light,
Which is to say not the same thing.
I've had this same problem,
So now I make sure they know they will be wearing nothing for our nudes.
Photographer
Scott Evans
Posts: 385
Cypress, California, US
Wynd Mulysa wrote:
No. They're not the same.
Maybe it's your communication.
Usually the photographer I'm working with says something like "Let's get some nude shots, now."
And I have never thought they meant topless. Did you read my post? It's my communication? I tell the model that it is a nude shoot, again, this is the point of my post. Nude means naked, no clothing, nude ya know?
Model
Caroline Ann Martin
Posts: 1736
Williamsport, Pennsylvania, US
studio36uk wrote:
If they will take their top off but not show their nipples is it topless?
MOST IDIOTIC STATEMENT MADE BY A MODEL:
I will only do "covered nude"
D U H !!!
Studio36 Um.... how is this an idiotic statement? There IS such a thing as a covered nude (as compared to nude or implied nude).... Covered nudes are simply nudes but with "privates" covered by hands/arms/position/etc.
As or the original question, to me, nude means full nudity though there is certainly a difference between artistic nudes, glamour nudes, etc...
Caroline
-225 lbs @ goal
Model
Wynd Mulysa
Posts: 8619
Berkeley, California, US
Scott Evans wrote:
Did you read my post? It's my communication? I tell the model that it is a nude shoot, again, this is the point of my post. Nude means naked, no clothing, nude ya know? I just meant, in regards to this:
"I have run into models who say they do nudes, but then when it is time to shoot they only go topless. "
..When they are there in your studio, do you tell them to take their clothes off?
I'm just trying to think of an explaination.
Maybe some more details about your specific experiences would help, too. If you tell them you're taking nude photos and they only go topless, do you then tell them to take the rest of their clothes off? Then do they?
I'm wondering what a model who claims to do nudes, but resuses while shooting, would have to say? Would she be insulting? Embarassed?
Photographer
Scott Evans
Posts: 385
Cypress, California, US
Wynd Mulysa wrote:
I just meant, in regards to this:
"I have run into models who say they do nudes, but then when it is time to shoot they only go topless. "
..When they are there in your studio, do you tell them to take their clothes off?
I'm just trying to think of an explaination. Ahhh OK, I misunderstood, sorry :-)
Photographer
John W Cochran
Posts: 1266
Auburn, Alabama, US
Nude means no clothes, at all, no covering.
I believe I have run a few models off by being blunt in some email, to make sure we both have an understanding of what is expected, by nude, and implied. For some a shadow over the genitalia in the final image means implied, for others it has to be clothing or hands.
Of the few models I have worked with, the ones more comfortable with thier bodies and not so worried about a nipple showing, even through clothes, have been able to produce better images, and more productive shoots.
I am of course working mainly with models with little or no experence, but this seems to hold true even for fashion type clothed shoots
Photographer
Zion Imaging
Posts: 890
Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, US
Chris Macan wrote:
It's nude light, Lol half the calories and almost all the....
oh nevermind..
Model
Wynd Mulysa
Posts: 8619
Berkeley, California, US
I edited my above post. I'm curious about this ..
Model
Caroline Ann Martin
Posts: 1736
Williamsport, Pennsylvania, US
Scott Evans wrote:
I am working on a art project that requires full nudity. I have run into models who say they do nudes, but then when it is time to shoot they only go topless.
So I ask, is topless ans nude thesame thing or should a model list to what degree they will go nude? I am NOT looking to piss anyone off, just asking a for real question! Just to add, that perhaps the model agreed to do nudes and then during the photo shoot, for whatever reason felt uncomfortable doing nudes with the specific photographer, in the setting, etc.?
My one terrible modeling experience took place in early July with a total GWC who had/has a strong port here on MM (so of course I didn't know he was a GWC until the shoot was taking place). We spoke over the phone a couple times about doing artistic nudes which I was ok with. Everything seemed on the up and up.
Then he showed up to the shoot (my home) with 2 rolls of film for his SLR camera and his girlfriend's point and shoot 2 mp digital camera, spent 45 minutes "shooting" only to figure that he forgot to put the second roll of film in his camera and during the shoot when I was topless, started making reference to my anatomy as being "wet and juicy". I should state that we were outside in the back of my home which is usually private except for when my neighbors are coming home from work (which because of his mess up with the film, they were expected home anytime). The photographer kept insisting that I "lower my pants" telling me how great a body I have. Did I then do full nudes with him? Heck no....
I know exactly what nudes, partial nudes, implied nudes and covered nudes are, and I'd agreed to do nudes with him. But when it became clear that the guy was a total GWC probably taking the photos for his own private collection, I sure as heck wasn't going to shoot nude with him.
So, just another view....
Caroline
-225 lbs @ goal
Model
ANNABELLA
Posts: 1642
Atlanta, Georgia, US
I wouldn't say so. Here I am topless but covered. So I dunno what that would count as
Model
Afinity
Posts: 670
Hagerstown, Maryland, US
Nude to me is totally naked maybe with an accessory, but showing your breasts & lower region/pubic hair and/or butt, if these are covered then it is implied nudity or just topless if there are panties on. You can however do fine art nudes with underwear on as long as you are showing atleast one of the goods! You should probally specify and show examples of what you want when you are booking a model.
Photographer
Mann Made Imagery
Posts: 5281
Lubbock, Texas, US
topless is NOT nude, nude means you have NOTHING on like absolutely NOTHING! All bare parts are out in the open and ready to be seen and captured. Topless is topless. Nude is nude. They are not the same.
Photographer
MF productions
Posts: 2064
San Jose, California, US
depends on who you ask , what state , what country you are in if topless is viewed as nudity .
in my case its not nudity if its just topless but for some reason breasts are viewed as partial nudity.
Photographer
Nihilus
Posts: 10888
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Is topless the same as nude? No.
(How's that for a momentous 2000th post?)
Photographer
Scott Evans
Posts: 385
Cypress, California, US
Nihilus wrote:
No.
(How's that for a momentous 2000th post?) The kind of answers I love!
Photographer
Scott Evans
Posts: 385
Cypress, California, US
ANNABELLA wrote:
I wouldn't say so. Here I am topless but covered. So I dunno what that would count as
Model
MM Jen
Posts: 181
BRONX, New York, US
I still haven't figured out how shots of people in lingerie can be classified by the photographer as Nude images, and completely naked models can make for a Lingerie image.
Photographer
Scott Evans
Posts: 385
Cypress, California, US
Caroline Ann Martin wrote:
Just to add, that perhaps the model agreed to do nudes and then during the photo shoot, for whatever reason felt uncomfortable doing nudes with the specific photographer, in the setting, etc.?
My one terrible modeling experience took place in early July with a total GWC who had/has a strong port here on MM (so of course I didn't know he was a GWC until the shoot was taking place). We spoke over the phone a couple times about doing artistic nudes which I was ok with. Everything seemed on the up and up.
Then he showed up to the shoot (my home) with 2 rolls of film for his SLR camera and his girlfriend's point and shoot 2 mp digital camera, spent 45 minutes "shooting" only to figure that he forgot to put the second roll of film in his camera and during the shoot when I was topless, started making reference to my anatomy as being "wet and juicy". I should state that we were outside in the back of my home which is usually private except for when my neighbors are coming home from work (which because of his mess up with the film, they were expected home anytime). The photographer kept insisting that I "lower my pants" telling me how great a body I have. Did I then do full nudes with him? Heck no....
I know exactly what nudes, partial nudes, implied nudes and covered nudes are, and I'd agreed to do nudes with him. But when it became clear that the guy was a total GWC probably taking the photos for his own private collection, I sure as heck wasn't going to shoot nude with him.
So, just another view....
Caroline
-225 lbs @ goal LOL,,,well I am not a GWC, nor am I a perv. I asked a question that I thought was straight forward and that was do models know the difference between nude and topless? Not talking about horrible experiences, pervs or anything like that? None of that was mentioned in my original post?
Photographer
Scott Evans
Posts: 385
Cypress, California, US
Thuy Anh wrote:
topless is NOT nude, nude means you have NOTHING on like absolutely NOTHING! All bare parts are out in the open and ready to be seen and captured. Topless is topless. Nude is nude. They are not the same. EXACTLY! I grew up in New Orleans and even there they had topless bars and "all nude" bars. Topless meant no top, hence the word TOPLESS? Nude meant, well nude, as in nothing on? We can put a man on the moon but yet we struggle with this simple distinction?
Photographer
Done and Gone
Posts: 7650
Chiredzi, Masvingo, Zimbabwe
It is just like being pregnant, you either are or are not.
Photographer
Scott Evans
Posts: 385
Cypress, California, US
Michael L. wrote:
It is just like being pregnant, you either are or are not. LMAO!!!! I think I dated that girl who almost got preggers!
Photographer
Richard Tallent
Posts: 7136
Beaumont, Texas, US
The Eskimos have 1,000 words for snow, I'm sure the high-falutin' coastal people have 1,000 words for various forms of nudity--covered, implied, sheer, suggested, nipple-less, topless, bodyscape, spread, etc.
But dude, we're in Texas. We have one word for snow ("damn!"). We have one word for soft drinks ("Coke"). Among the civilized, we have one word for beer ("Shiner"). We don't have much more variety in our vocabulary for "nekkid," so you're going to spell it out, like when you tell the nice waitress that your preference of Coke is a "Diet Pepsi."
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68937
Orlando, Florida, US
The odd definitions very much baffle me
Especially when I see some of the models who vehemently declaim "no nudes" but have ports that're almost all "implied" show off their full derriere.
Since when does showing your whole crack minus underwear not count as some level of nudity??
Photographer
Kentsoul
Posts: 9739
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
The fact that this is even a valid topic for discussion illustrates how twisted our cultures perception of the nude body has become.
And I thought I was weird.
Model
Muse Anya
Posts: 344
Sunnyvale, California, US
Scott Evans wrote:
I am working on a art project that requires full nudity. I have run into models who say they do nudes, but then when it is time to shoot they only go topless.
I mean I grew up in New Orleans and even there they had topless bars and "all nude" bars. Topless meant no top, hence the word TOPLESS? Nude meant, well nude, as in nothing on? We can put a man on the moon but yet we struggle with this simple distinction?
So I ask, is topless ans nude the same thing or should a model list to what degree they will go nude? I am NOT looking to piss anyone off, just asking a for real question! If you are having multiple issues with this, you should specify what you mean by "nude" in the initial letter (or whatever way your are communicating).
Photographer
oldguysrule
Posts: 6129
always be specific.
you were here, when posting.
it takes a long time to type 'full' and avoid confusion?
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 22898
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna
Caroline Ann Martin wrote:
Um.... how is this an idiotic statement? There IS such a thing as a covered nude (as compared to nude or implied nude).... Covered nudes are simply nudes but with "privates" covered by hands/arms/position/etc.
As or the original question, to me, nude means full nudity though there is certainly a difference between artistic nudes, glamour nudes, etc...
Caroline
-225 lbs @ goal The expression "covered nude" resolves only to a matter of degree... and in NO case is it NUDE!!!
A MATTER OF DEGREE - BUT NOT NUDE
![https://www.suprmchaos.com/att31170.jpg]()
I [along with many of the other photographers AND models in this thread] absolutely, positively, refuse to play the "degrees of nudity" game. If it is not nude [nude = without ANY covering] then it is NOT "nude." Full stop. End of story.
Scott Evans wrote:
should a model list to what degree they will go nude? Scott, wrong question. It is not a matter of degree - it is a matter of nude or not. Simple.
Keith aka Wolfie wrote:
IMHO, nude means your birthday suit. Anything less and it's not nude.. Pat Thielen wrote:
Topless to me isn't nude. When you advertise for a nude project, that's what it means -- no clothes. -P- Harold Rose wrote:
Maybe things changed for the new millinimum but I have no argument when we agree on nude being minus all clothes of any kind No semi-nude might mean something else.. Moraxian wrote:
I would think that nude means no clothes or any other wardrobe... Pat Thielen wrote:
What part of the word "nude" didn't she understand...? Some peoples' kids... -P- Scott Evans wrote:
So I ask, is topless ans nude thesame thing
[Wynd Mulysa]No. They're not the same.
Maybe it's your communication.
Usually the photographer I'm working with says something like "Let's get some nude shots, now."
And I have never thought they meant topless. Chris Macan wrote:
So now I make sure they know they will be wearing nothing for our nudes. John W Cochran wrote:
Nude means no clothes, at all, no covering. Afinity wrote:
Nude to me is totally naked maybe with an accessory, but showing your breasts & lower region/pubic hair and/or butt,.. Thuy Anh wrote:
topless is NOT nude, nude means you have NOTHING on like absolutely NOTHING! Is topless the same as nude?
[Nihilus]No. Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
The fact that this is even a valid topic for discussion illustrates how twisted our cultures perception of the nude body has become. As a side note... I shot editorial and features for a nudist print magazine for years. I KNOW WHAT "NUDE" MEANS... unlike, apparently, yourself and the model in the OP's tale of woe.
Studio36
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