I'm curious how people respond when they hear a rate they don't want to hear...

Hypothetical: You really like someone's work. They have made it clear they don't do TFP, or you are assuming they only work on a paid basis. You send them a message to hire them. You throw in the fact that you'd like to work on a TFP OR paid basis...

1. what information do you give besides the fact that you want to hire them? Do you talk about the type of shoot? Or do you simply just say "Hey, I want to hire you."?

2. When they respond back with their rates, if they are too high...what do YOU respond with?

a. "I can't afford that....here's what I could afford."
b. "I can't afford that....I have plenty of models/photogs/stylists that would do it for less"
c. "that's a little high don't you think?"
d. "I can't afford that...thanks for getting back to me."
e. no response at all.

The reason I ask is because when I am approached about being hired, I rarely am given any information other than "hey I want to hire you" despite that I ask for more details in my profile. I've seen plenty of artists on here requesting in their profile what they need to know about a shoot when sent a first msg....I'm wondering if anone has success in getting that. I find that the photographers I sing praises of and shoot TFP with, on the first shoot, sent me details upon details- which I love.

How many of you get "I want to hire you" vs. details. What do you prefer?

Second part....I have received all of the a-e responses (or lack thereof) when I send my rates regarding a paid shoot. I find that telling someone their rates are too high is unprofessional because, let's face it, often times enough rates are set at what people have been paying. Furthermore, when I am looking to hire a MUA, and I'm asking for rates, I've often times been told "$500/half day plus kit fee"...I've responded with, I cannot afford that. It doesn't matter if I think it's too high or not, I just can't afford it. So why do people insist on writing "your rates are too high."? Does it make them feel better about themselves because they think they've knocked the artist down a few pegs?

Be honest. If you've responsed with "those rates are too high"..why do you respond with that?

I'm also curious as to why people don't respond at all? Clearly, you had time to write an inquiry in the first place...why is it so hard to write "no thanks" and end the conversation?

Ok....I know I asked a bunch of questions, I'm just looking to see what some people think about this issue, and who has encountered what. Thanks!
xo
-D

When I send a message asking for rates from a model, I will usually state what types of photos I am looking shoot and the purpose of the shoot. If I have a specific date I'm looking at, I will include that information too. When contacting  Makeup or Hair stylists, I will usually just ask for their rates.

When I have received a reply with a rate that is higher than expected (and can afford) I will thank them for replying and say that unfortunately the rates are outside my budget allowance.

Erich

bump

.

(too-happy reply button, oops)

I respond with the "I'm a starving artist" line (which is literally true!  I'm trying to lose some weight) and then admit I can't afford the quoted rate, but can offer this or that instead.

Then they either accept it, go dead, or the negotiations begin, and trust me sometimes these are half the fun of a shoot...

I have never paid a photographer or MUA before.

Most of the messages I get from photographers who want to hire me are very simple "I'd love to work with you.  What are your rates?"  And to those I respond, without giving them rates, asking what kind of shoot they'd like to do and explaining that my rate depends on that.

I have gotten a lot of responces after telling them what my rate is.  Usually "that's very reasonable, let's schedule something!"  But sometimes not.  I prefer, when people can't afford to pay what I ask, for them to offer what they can pay.  9 times out of 10 I'll accept the offer.

When I am the one asking I try to provide all the details I can. If they have a list such as this:
If you'd like to work together, please send me...
Name:
Location:
Type of Shoot (be specific):
MUA/Hairdresser Provided:
Wardrobe provided:
Time Frame/Dates Available:
References:
Copy of Release:
on their profile I copy, paste and fill in the blanks.
If I get a quote (if I get a response at all) that is beyond my budget I respond with, “Well, that’s a bit more than I have budgeted. Would it be possible to arrange a deal where the price was more in the realm of $xxx and you receive yy as well.”  If it is not possible to reach an agreement then I thank the individual for their time and move on.

Good question and I do not have time to respond in full but
This is good for me.


a. "I can't afford that....here's what I could afford."
But add,  I did read your profile and This is the information I can give you.

Just read profiles.
There are always exceptions.
I assisted  another stylist on MM, for nothing but the experience just because I was editing too much and needed to get out of the house.  You never know.

I would not like the other answers in different degrees.
One of the last things you should try to tell someone who is experienced is "this will be good for your book".
Okay, maybe many do not put the best work on the web.
But that can be a comment that will kill the deal even before it starts.

A person may still say no but it does leave the door open for discussion.

Great question and thread. I think the best answer would be "thank you". I don't think your rates are too high is the best response. The rates might be too high for you but not for someone else. Thank you is best because it is polite and it not a put down or an angry response.

There are too many people out here to work with, find someone within your budget and wait until you can afford the more higher price people to hire.

I would like a Bently but I have a Nissan, at least I can get around until I can get a Bently. LOL

Frederique

Never hired anyone, but have been hired.

I try to tell the price, and times of availability (if applicable), and finish off with asking whether these work (in hope that if the don't, the negotiation would start).

anyone else?

Regarding a model-photographer working relationship, I have a couple of guidelines I keep in mind:

1)  I want the model to be happy, focused, and excited about the project, so I want to be able to negotiate a rate without detracting from the model's enthusiasm.

2)  If things don't work out today, I don't want to burn any bridges, because it is quite possible that our paths will cross tomorrow.

======================

Regarding negotiating rates:  I don't approach a model unless I have some specific ideas in mind.  So, instead of a "I want to work with you", I give her a detailed description of the proposed sitting, including where, time of day, what style, specific concepts, location, etc.  Then, I use standard negotiating techniques.  Let me summarize:

Standard Negotiation Techniques:

>>>  The person who first mentions a price is at a significant disadvantage.  It is better to ask for a rate than to propose a rate.

>>>  Act reluctant.  Wince a bit when you here the other party's proposal.

>>>  If you want 10, and they ask for 12, it is better to counter-offer 8 (rather than 10), to allow some future negotiating room.


Final note:  I want the model to feel respected, and I want to leave open the possibility that the model & I will work together again in the future.  Therefore, I don't negotiate hard, and I try to be generous.

So, if a model asks for a rate that is outside my comfort zone, my typical reply might be something like "I have no doubt that you are worth that, but I can't afford it.  Can you be a little flexible on that rate?"

Well, to me, answers "A" and "D" are reasonable and acceptable.

Answers "B" and "E" are rude, while "C" is immature (and perhaps rude as well).

I can't image asking a model for a rate without providing a lot of details.  One isn't buying a bog of coffee beans; instead one is seeking a highly customized and likely talented service.

I'm just a hobbyist so my funds to pay models are limited (I feel that I'm better off money putting it into equipment at this point).  Having said that I have paid two models in the last year, and both were worth every last penny, and then some.  Rates for both were arrived at following polite negotiation involving details such as type of shoot, wardrobe, terms of model release, terms of model's usage rights, revenue sharing of sold images, etc., etc.  Both charged me about half of what I thought they were each worth, but I could not have afforded to pay them more than I did (including tip).

I'd like to also offer response "F" which is "Thank you for providing your rates.  From your portfolio it's clear that you are worth that rate if not more, but I'm not able to afford that rate at this time.  Perhaps at some point in the future I can."

Paul

If someone answers 'I can't afford that....here's what I could afford' and I like the ideas they're putting across, I'll maybe drop the cash price and negotiate the difference in product (dresses, shoes, tickets, a good haircut & colour, etc). Maybe.

If they're rude, then all I can do is send them a standard 'thank you for your interest, I look forward to hearing from you in regards to future projects' email and leave it at that.

I get booked for all three jobs at times -
*Photographer
*Wardrobe
*Hair & Makeup
If the client says the rate is too high,
then that's fine. 
If they get rude and crazy,
then that's fine too.
That just tells me that they don't understand what to pay talented people.
As a makeup artist,
charging them a "kit fee" in addition to a day rate is ridiculous.
That should just be included in the day rate.
I do believe in being reasonable and not a rip off artist like a lot of people are.
People need to realize that you need to pay your dues in order to start charging people a high day rate.