Craig Thomson wrote:
What about shooting live performances where you don't get a chance to move a light or add a gel or fix the hair.

*smiles* I shoot for the fun of it and am having a great time.

This is precisely a situation that could cost you a job in, for example, Rolling Stone. In a live performance, yes, you cannot move lights. Live performance photos, with very few exceptions, have no style because a photographer (and others around you) is at the mercy of what happens on stage. Mikes and black backgrounds are the rule. A magazine like Rolling Stone would be interested if you took pictures of any of these bands back stage after or a before a performance. They would want to see photographs were you dealt, in person and directly with your subjects. Live performances, as difficult as they can be are only reactive situations for a photographer. Professionals are of the ilk that act and cause or are able to handle, diplomatically, difficult subjects.
Alexwh

J Schumacher wrote:
So, I was thinking about this today.

There's a number of reasons why I don't consider myself a professional photographer. And, I'm happy about that. You know why?

Because:

I can do tfcd any time that I want.

I can let models bring escorts if they so choose.

I don't have to have the latest, top of the line equipment. But I can, if I want to.

I don't need to make fun of new models trying to start a career, and smite them in their little hearts.

I can work (work?) on short notice, and not pretend I'm too booked up to bother with you because you're not a "professional" model. (separate topic, I'll leave that one alone.)

I don't have to care too much about whether my photo's are "correct" or not; I can just make images that I like.

O, and horrors: I can share the copyrights of the images with the models. Equally. Because I feel it's a shared creativity. Any profits are shared, too. (though that's an infrequent thing, since as a NON pro, I don't feel the need to sell my stuff.)

So, as a non-pro, I can just sit back, have fun, help people build their portfolios, and have a good time.

And I can ignore all the flames I've just drawn upon myself, too.
(sticks tongue out)


By the way, I class Pro Photographer as someone who's only source of income is from their photographer. And they live in a decent manner.
(and not ALL "Pro, I'm so pro" photographers pick on inexperienced models and make them cry, either. Just some.)

You have got to be kidding!
Wake up...

pegasusmaiden wrote:
A little lesson that a lot of people here can benefit from

WTF is this an English review site?

You have anything else better to say?

thates wat eye wuz thinkn az wel..  tis aint a sight to correkt engliche mestakes....?!@

Jaime Ibarra wrote:
Allow me to educate you:

1. Plural nouns = NO apostrophe, "s" only. Example: mistakes
2. If you have to add an "es" to make the word plural, then there is STILL NO APOSTROPHE! Example: lenses
3. Possessive = apostrophe before the "s". Example: this photographer's pet peeve
4. Plural AND possessive = apostrophe AFTER the "s" (this one is tricky). Example: those guys' punctuation mistakes
5. If the plural doesn't end in "s," the apostrophe comes before the "s". Example: children's television
6. When conjugating verbs in the third person singular = NO APOSTROPHE. Example: it costs you nothing.
7. An exception to the possessive rule is "it."
    a. With a possessive "it," there is NO APOSTROPHE. Example: the cat licked its balls.
    b. You only use an apostrophe with "it" when you are forming the contraction it is = it's
    c. I will make an exception to my general rule of extreme perturbance in the case of its/it's. Yes, I know, it's hard.
8. Finally, an apostrophe is used to form other contractions: cannot = can't, is not = isn't, etc.

A little lesson that a lot of people here can benefit from

punctuation is simply a suggestion, like suggested serving size. it all sounds rather civilized but sometimes we like to live life not be confined by convention.

there was a recent study that states that people who go around correcting the grammar and punctuation of other posters are prone to some hard to pronounce illnesses and conditions. fear not. most of these can be prevented with a little more fiber in the diet and not stressing about things like commas and proper word order. ypa.

DpHotography wrote:

pegasusmaiden wrote:
A little lesson that a lot of people here can benefit from

WTF is this an English review site?

You have anything else better to say?

thates wat eye wuz thinkn az wel..  tis aint a sight to correkt engliche mestakes....?!@

It'd "dis" not "tis".

Photos By Deej wrote:
I totally agree with everything you said except "I don't need to make fun of new models trying to start a career, and smite them in their little hearts. "  Not sure what that means.

spend more time in the forums, you will...some of the "pro" photogs are really jerks in their way of critiquing.  Often they make the best and most valid points, but in the most deconstructive of ways.  It's quite sad actually.

MagicImagePhoto wrote:
Q-Do you think I'm to fat to be a model.

A-There is a Market for Plus size Models. It's right around the corner from here. Can you go and get me a few bags of Corn chips and toilet paper.

This one brought tears to my eyes.  Damn, that was good...

Mark Heaps wrote:

spend more time in the forums, you will...some of the "pro" photogs are really jerks in their way of critiquing.  Often they make the best and most valid points, but in the most deconstructive of ways.  It's quite sad actually.

Perhaps,
But I live and work in the world of production. I havent seen anything on MM that even come close to the harsh realities of Production. Producers and Directors rarely are anywhere close to gental. Some have such bad reputations many are afraid to look at them sideways for fear of being torn apart. It's something you would best learn to deal with.

There are a lot of powerful people in the industry who eat talent for breakfast. AND>>FYI..Everytime you see an interview on HOW AWESOME or KIND this or that Director or Producer is....... IT IS SMOKE..Go work on a set and see for yourself.

If anyone wants to make it in the REAL world of modeling, they wold best learn to deal with the petty stuff on MM before taking the leap.

Vance wrote:
Using terns like.. Professonal..Certified..Authenticated...Liscenced....etc..are term Professional people put in Job tittles and such as TERMS used to give potential clients a feeling of confidence.

How many corporations are going to hire a company who promotes themselves as Novice or "just starting out? Not very many...We have these terms and titles in the business world for a reason..It has nothing to do with egos////at least not soely..

mmm....well you would have to be pretty fucking dumb to put 'amatuer' on your business card wouldnt you, and for that reason, shitloads of amatuers put 'professional' on it instead, trying to convince people they are.........which was my point.
you are either shit at photography, or not......and putting 'professional' at the end of your name, or in your business name doesnt indicate anything of the sort if your work doesnt also show a level of 'professionalism'. and if it does, then theres no need to out it on your business card is there??

gavin oneill wrote:

mmm....well you would have to be pretty dumb to put 'amatuer' on your business card wouldnt you, and for that reason, shitloads of amatuers put 'professional' on it instead, trying to convince people they are.........which was my point.
you are either shit at photography, or not......and putting 'professional' at the end of your name, or in your business name doesnt indicate anything of the sort if your work doesnt also show a level of 'professionalism'. and if it does, then theres no need to out it on your business card is there??
i think you are not giving most clients enough respect in your statement, as any good ones can tell if you are a pro (and if they might want to hire you or not) after about the 10th image in your port.....or the 10th minute of a meeting........as u will have either succeeded or failed to show enough of your 'professionalism' by that point to keep them interested.

First of all..IF THEY ARE ALREADY my clients the issue of being professinal is no longer an ISSUE...My point was amarketing point. People associate with terms..Branding is a point in case..People are visual by nature and WORDS like professional catch the eye..YOu made my point..many so called amatuers are smart enough to know this and try to sound or appear better than they. NOTE...there skill level does not determine if they are a pro..Their work ethic and business practice determines that.

Titles and terms mean everything.

That is marketing 101..No getting around it..and No matter how you use words..In the end, you work will speak fr itself. PERIOD....Life goes on..

PS..I went to your website to peep your work...But alas..it loads way to slow..so I missed out...I'd optimize that bad boy, just a bit. I'm sure there are some rockin imges there..Rock on...

Vance wrote:
YOu made my point..many so called amatuers are smart enough to know this and try to sound or appear better than they.

  sounds like u just made my point! so u would rather lump yourself in with a bunch of bullshitting amatuers than let your work speak for you?? and why are u talking about clients that are already your clients? do u still feel the need to market yourself to them? i was (and i thought u were) talking about marketing yourself to new clients....?

u know i think its all very much an advertising thing (which i dont do much of), specially when u start using terms like 'marketing 101'.......in the fashion world i dont know anyone who uses words like 'professional' on their business card. the fact they have kick ass work and are repped by a good agent, and have extensive client lists  etc etc takes care of any doubts anyone might have.....

anyways,  u do it your way and il do it mine  i consider anyone a professional photographer if they make a living off of it, doesnt mean theyre any good tho....

ps, my web is one of the fastest ive seen, most complaints ive ever had have been that it loads too fast....so i changed the image loading program......perhaps u had a broswer issue...ive encoutered that myself aswell (with my site)..if u care to try again im sure it will be fine 

gavin oneill wrote:

  sounds like u just made my point! so u would rather lump yourself in with a bunch of bullshitting amatuers than let your work speak for you?? and why are u talking about clients that are already your clients? do u still feel the need to market yourself to them? i was 9and i thought u were) talking about marketing yourself to new clients....?

u know i think its all very much an advertising thing (which i dont do much of), specially when u start using terms like 'marketing 101'.......in the fashion world i dont know anyone who uses words like 'professional' on their business card. the fact they have kick ass work and are repped by a good agent, and have extensive client lists  etc etc takes care of any doubts anyone might have.....

anyways,  u do it your way and il do it mine  i consider anyone a professional photographer if they make a living off of it, doesnt mean theyre any good tho....

ps, my web is one of the fastest ive seen, most complaints ive ever had have been that it loads too fast....so i changed the image loading program......perhaps u had a broswer issue...ive encoutered that myself aswell (with my site)..if u care to try again im sure it will be fine 

LOL,
Well lucky for me my world goes beyond fashion..I happen to run a production comapny..MM is a little side note as far as my career is concerend. If you would like to see my website and how I present myself I will be glad to send you a link. Then you can see my client list and know where I am coming from.

Marketing 101 happens to be a very good course..I know..I took it..among others..
I dont lump myself anyplace..Bt I know business...Been self employed for over 17yrs. I know my shit..and my work dosent mean squat if I can't to attract clients.


As to your site..Ive seen much faster sites..That wasnt a slam..I really think it could be faster. that simple...It was just an observation.As to browser issues..Hardly..I cant afford those issues in my business..My system is humming along a light speed...I take great care to make sure it always is.

Much love..


vance

gavin oneill wrote:
sure send me the link......

just curious..... with my site, i can go thru the whole thing in about 2-3 mins......over 100 full quality jpeg images......r u saying u couldnt wait that long?? or that it was actually loading too slowly (or it froze) so that u were held up?? thats why i suggested refreshing the browser....

i mean i could speed it up, but how fast should it go?? :-/   the way its designed is that while u are looking at the first 2 or 3, or 4, the rest are downloading along the line at normal DSL speed......i would think anyone who cant spare 3 mins (which is about the max time i give to any site i look at unless im REALLY INTO IT) isnt really there to see anything more than an overview anyway....?

considering u wrote that when u were pissed at me , is it really 'that' slow??

What your site does on your computer may not be the sme for a first tme visitor who doesnt have it in cache.. My flash files show up on my system at break neck speed...It's my visitors that I need to concern myself with..

And, if you CAN speed it up...why not do so?

Pissed? Really now...if you have read any of my post...you would know I hardly take this place seriously..LOL


Come now...

alexwh wrote:
Any website that uses Macromedia Flash is a website that search engines will have a hard time finding. Good photographs do not need flash or movement. They will "speak" for themselves without aditional fireworks.
Alexwh

As for search engines, this depends on how much Flash is used. And there are ways around it. Although a very nice site can be built without Flash (many are), you're dismissing some of the leading and most functional sites in the market with your thinking. The most award-winning sites out there incorporate Flash. There is no rule whatsoever that the World Wide Web in its presentational qualities has to remain static. As I posted in another post, Flash is an appropriate tool and design element when it supports the content, not hinders it. Problem is, too many people design Flash to load slowly and take main stage over content which is - well - inappropriate.

Vance wrote:
And, if you CAN speed it up...why not do so?

Pissed? Really now...if you have read any of my post...you would know I hardly take this place seriously..LOL

ha, thats such the american way, faster, stronger etc etc.... some people like to take their time and look at images in a relaxed way.......im very much interested in appealing to those people, and also i would hope the other stressed ones have 1 or 2 mins to spare.....

actually i just checked my site, and the menu bar isnt working....im gonna get onto that, there must be a gremlin in there somewhere, thanks for pointing me in that direction

ps. i was kidding about the 'pissed' thing too, i dont take this site too seriously either, but i do like it

Josh Humble wrote:
Oh, and one more thing: the use of Flash is getting to be one of the best ways of discouraging photo-snatching on the web.

Ding ding..NOT!


Flash can be stolen as well...Screen captures are amazing little tools..very easy to use, and very easy to get...Hell you dont ewven need a sceen caprture tol..Yopu can hit PRINT ans steal the screen image form the temporary print file folder..

So flash does not really do a great job of protecting images.

Sucks I know...but computer geeks and thieves know a work around everything..nothing is safe..

:-)

Josh Humble wrote:

As for search engines, this depends on how much Flash is used. And there are ways around it. Although a very nice site can be built without Flash (many are), you're dismissing some of the leading and most functional sites in the market with your thinking. The most award-winning sites out there incorporate Flash. There is no rule whatsoever that the World Wide Web in its presentational qualities has to remain static. As I posted in another post, Flash is an appropriate tool and design element when it supports the content, not hinders it. Problem is, too many people design Flash to load slowly and take main stage over content which is - well - inappropriate.

Here ..Here...

I only use flash components in HTMK designs..
As to the search engines...correct me if I am wrong..But you build an Html page that stands staic behind you flash site..this give the search engines something to look upon..I am making this very simple.....

Ie..your index.html page is HTML..a flash page is then launched (blank) and sits on top..you can make that HTML page a background if you have the skills..You will notice many GOOD flash site open this way..you will close the flash page and there will stll be an open window.

Gavin..case in point...Not pivking on him..His site is dome in FLASH 9.0...a bad idea as many many people are not using the latest version of flash..When I do use flash I build in 8 and set out put for a version or two back..I lose a few scripting features but it's a better trade off.

Most people have no idea how to optimie their files to load quickly..It shows in the many slow loading sites..

I always go to another computer that doesnt have the source files on it to see how it actually runs on somebody elses system..even after doing all the cool little bandwidth checks and such..better to be safe and universal.

Where is my damned wood chipper!?

Josh Humble wrote:
Oh, and one more thing: the use of Flash is getting to be one of the best ways of discouraging photo-snatching on the web.

Nobody had ever photo snatched from my site.
Alexwh

alexwh wrote:
I chuckle when I read such magazines like Popular Photography (Equipment the Pros would kill for!) . I kind of wonder who these pros are. All you have to do is sell a print to someone for one cent and you are a professional. The moment you start trying to figure out what percentage of a photographer's income is from photography, to see if the photographer is really a professional you are in shaky ground.

The wealthy lords of the 18th and 19th century would not have been caught working, specially for money. In England, in particular they popularized the concept of the amateur. Here the word with its Latin root to love means that those who were amateurs were extremely serious in what they did; the loved what they did, and would have been insulted if you had offered money. A bit of the 19th century amateur lives in our century in the many amateur gardeners of the world wh are extremely serious of what they do but love it and have fun doing it.  And best of all amateurs shared.

So many here shower the negative connotation of cold, calculating, rude, secretive, nasty to the "Pro". I would like to think that many photographers in MM, be they "Pros" or not, would adopt the virtues of the true amateur.
Alexwh

Well said...

as I said..I am a Pro because I am a business man with a professional mind set..NOT BECAUSE of the quality of my work My clients use the WORD Pro, much more than I ever would. I am not blind to the marketing value of words..I would not be a professional if I were.

To many people equate..HOW GOOD you are to determine "pro-status"..It is a misconception that seems to have spread it's evil wings.

Out of that mindset I see a lot of general statement and ugly remarks. Sad but true...

If I had the choice of doing what I do for nmoney or not..I would choose not to make money and just have loads of fun. Would I not still be a pro? or just a really damned good novice? I wonder...
That fact of the matter is..I LOVE money..I LOVE what I do.and it al fits..
I a a Professioanl Bussineman who take Pictures, makes videos, edit videos and I try my best to keep the clients happy..Even when they piss me off..THATS A PRO...LOL

PS.

Never type in a dark studio..LOL..Im no typist  I need to see the keyboard..at least not a pro.

LOL

alexwh wrote:
Few here seem to realize that you can go back to edit and correct what you wrote.
Alexwh

I do it all the time after a fast paced post..LOL.

Geeeeesh.I am really bad sometimes..

alexwh wrote:
Few here seem to realize that you can go back to edit and correct what you wrote.
Alexwh

Yes, but that ruins the spontenaity. And then people can't make fun of your typos.

J Schumacher wrote:
So, I was thinking about this today.

There's a number of reasons why I don't consider myself a professional photographer. And, I'm happy about that. You know why?

Because:

I can do tfcd any time that I want.

I can let models bring escorts if they so choose.

I don't have to have the latest, top of the line equipment. But I can, if I want to.

I don't need to make fun of new models trying to start a career, and smite them in their little hearts.

I can work (work?) on short notice, and not pretend I'm too booked up to bother with you because you're not a "professional" model. (separate topic, I'll leave that one alone.)

I don't have to care too much about whether my photo's are "correct" or not; I can just make images that I like.

O, and horrors: I can share the copyrights of the images with the models. Equally. Because I feel it's a shared creativity. Any profits are shared, too. (though that's an infrequent thing, since as a NON pro, I don't feel the need to sell my stuff.)

So, as a non-pro, I can just sit back, have fun, help people build their portfolios, and have a good time.

And I can ignore all the flames I've just drawn upon myself, too.
(sticks tongue out)


By the way, I class Pro Photographer as someone who's only source of income is from their photographer. And they live in a decent manner.
(and not ALL "Pro, I'm so pro" photographers pick on inexperienced models and make them cry, either. Just some.)

I agree whole-heartedly! I honestly consider myself an artist who uses photography as an expression... While I've managed to earn a living as a photographer, I'm just an artist at heart!

KorokStudios wrote:

I agree whole-heartedly! I honestly consider myself an artist who uses photography as an expression... While I've managed to earn a living as a photographer, I'm just an artist at heart!

You mean that artists are not professional? Or do we now have two classifications:

1. Amateur artist.
2. Professional artist.

Alexwh

alexwh wrote:
Reason why so many more babies are born than should.
Alexwh

Two ways to look at this

1) God loves all babies and he works in mysterious ways and one day one baby will be the most beautiful adult in the world.  Therefore, spontaneous babies have a purpose.

2) Don't like Western culture or political tolerance for free babies then move to China they don't have that complaint there.

Ched wrote:
I almost made a model cry today.

Maybe I'll do better next time. Angry tears are sexy.

Well, guess that's ok, if it's your style. Hell, a model almost made me cry today.