|
Forums >
General Industry >
Some Models Amaze Me, just some :)
This is kind of funny  I e-mailed this girl 2-3 times through OMP and I never got one reply. Obviously I gave up and moved on because she was more interested in the photographers she was shooting with, eventhough their work wasn't the greatest, and that was that. Then I get a job from a company and place it on a bulletin board only to have guess who e-mail me about it. LOL, I was like, you got to be fucking kidding me! So I decided to e-mail her back the other day, through a different website, and tell her she missed out on the job by not contacting me from the start. Her reply was what really got me though and makes me laugh! She said, that she was sorry but she didn't get her OMP e-mails because someone checks them for her! I thought, what a dick, and asked who it was so I could ask her buddy why she lost a job over his dumbass, wannabe "manager" attitude. Well she just replied again and told me the guy checking her e-mails isn't even her friend, LOL! Okay so am I just ignorant or this the lamest thing you have ever heard? oh she also said I shouldn't judge her based on the internet LOL another great remark considering she is marketing herself this way! Most models, and photographers for that matter, hopefully understand that first impressions are important! We also meet through the internet, and unless or until we meet in person, we will be judged by our actions and attitudes here. It also shows how lame these so called "managers" are and why models should avoid their stupid asses like the plague! Okay just my story for the day I am sure other photographers and models have similar ones so lets all share, hehe!Apr 26 05 03:45 pm Link I think some these so called "model managers" do more harm than good for models. I presented a local model search for venus swimwear. The winner would have her flight and room paid for and able to attend a job fair. (Which could lead to a job). Anyway, I'd get these so called model managers asking how much I was going to pay these girls to be in it. I tried to explain the possiblities for the girls who enter, but all the manager could talk about was how I was going to pay the girls. Well, I am sure the manager never told his girls about the contest because it wasn't beneficial to the manager. Some managers never see the big picture. Apr 26 05 04:06 pm Link Posted by MGAphoto: That does NOT surprise me at all. A model I shot with was later listed on OMP by another photographer who wanted to be her "manager" and I asked her about it. She told me that she gave him permission to use her pictures, but she was not even aware he was running a profile as if she were active and involved with the OMP site! You MUST be aware that one of the reasons a so called manager on OMP can be bad is that there are many FAKE profiles or even dead ones that no one ever gets the e-mails from unknowing prospective photographers offering shoots. OMP is supposed to weed out the dead profiles, but that still does not stop the guys who just want to show off their photography and will even pay for a FAKE profile that the model knows nothing about. It happens! Apr 26 05 04:08 pm Link Posted by CS-I-PHOTO: TRUE! Not only are there FAKES and dead profiles to deal with, but greedy "managers" whose only concern is how much money they are going to make off their "talent!" Apr 26 05 04:09 pm Link Yeah, last week, I emailed a friend of mine who is now out of the modelling scene. She had a profile on OMP not made by her adn she was listed as being represented for booking by a photog she had worked with. Checking this photog's OMP profile, he has a bunch of girls he says he manages. I know a few of them, so I call or email them. None of them knew about this. Most were pissed. And, yes, he is still on OMP. Apr 26 05 04:12 pm Link Yeah but this girl said that someone checks her messages so she know about it. The funny thing was that he wasn't her friend, well that is what she wrote me, but I am thinking it is a way for her to get out of the fact she is a flake? Apr 26 05 04:15 pm Link Posted by MGAphoto (ANT): Why are you so focused on her saying he wasn't her friend? If he is a "manager" that does not mean he must be her friend too. It seems pretty obvious that if she did not respond to you before, then she responds to an "ad" you placed, then she is telling you the truth. Did you think that the so called "manager" could be the "flake?" Apr 26 05 04:23 pm Link I am abhorred with "Model Managers" on OMP (or anywhere unless they are licensed in their respective states.) and vehemently against the idea. I usually warn the girls that I think will be preyed upon. Apr 26 05 04:24 pm Link Managers give me no problem. Well, except for one. He knows I hate his guts. Thank God he moved. Apr 26 05 04:31 pm Link Posted by MGAphoto (ANT): How is she a flake? Apr 26 05 05:11 pm Link I had a photographer offer to manage my profile for me, then disappear for several months. (In the midst of trying to schedule a shoot.) When he returns, he tells me he has had the flu. Disappears again. Returns, stating that there has been a deluge of paid work. Both fine, both a-ok if we're just talking a shoot... but I'm glad I decided against accepting his offer as a manager. Apr 26 05 05:20 pm Link Posted by CS-I-PHOTO: I couldn't agree more. Apr 26 05 05:32 pm Link First, all of the shoots she has done were with photographers in the same industry. Second, I would have hooked her up with this same company which is what my prior e-mails were about. Third, I do think it is lame when a model shoots a trade or test with another photographer with less experience, creative ability (aka can't shoot that well), or more to offer and then fails to write except when a paid job comes up on another message board, haha! Apr 26 05 05:37 pm Link Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *: How can you complain about "managers" when you, or the group of guys you work with, are "managers"? Apr 26 05 05:39 pm Link MGA.....Whether or not she was telling the truth, it still seems to be a problem. Emails, managers, models, photographers, there always seem to be a "bad apple" in the bunch. This again goes back to communication, and obviously models are not researching the people that they work with i.e. managers or even photographers. And even if that isn't the problem at the time, it is usually the next thing which is pretty much lack of communication. Everyday, I am hearing a complaint about a model or a photographer. Both models and photographers NEED to treat this as a professional business, do their research, ask questions and last but not least..COMMUNICATE. I know that you sent emails and with no response. It just sounds very unprofessional whether it is the manager's fault or the models, because what the manager does as far as human relations does reflect upon her also, and people will blame her just as much as her manager. McKenzie Apr 26 05 06:31 pm Link Posted by MGAphoto (ANT): Well, maybe that's why managers don't give me problems eh? I've also worked with models whom have "managers", whom I never worked with in my life. I've had managers asking if I could shoot thier models of whom they manage. This must mean something right? Maybe you're not offering something that's in the models best interest? Apr 26 05 06:48 pm Link For more than 28yrs I have been dealing direct with model agencies in NYC, Miami, LA & SF, Chicago. SO the idea of the net is very new I shouldn't say new, since I have dealing with the agencies where it's easy to look at head books online. instead of them being faxed to me. We are in a new age of working sometimes directly with the models and there should be some understanding of professionalism on both parts of model's and their dealing with online site that are inbetweens. We seek this easy method of getting more access to models, yet there needs to be a better communication between the photographer & models. Fact, define the job that you are looking for with these models...understand that this is a paying gig.....what all will be done with the project.....business is business and if either fails to live up to that then you need to find another line of work..... Apr 26 05 06:57 pm Link The whole manager thing is a big mess. I have had photographers ask to manage me who were not interested in managing me at all. I prefer to work alone, and am not the type of person who takes to be managed at all. And yet, I have a manager. Why? Because he doesn't touch my portfolio, does not respond to any of my letters, and does not have anything to do with my bookings and communications. What he does is give me advice about the reputation of other photographers, offers me advice on how to market myself, and tells me more information all the time on how I can improve as a model. He also gives me photographers input: i.e. no one hates anyone more than they hate a no-show. In other jobs, showing up is half the work...in modelling, it is all of it.(yes, there is work after showing up, but even flopping a shoot is better than no call no show.) Apr 26 05 07:01 pm Link I currently manage 41 models which are linked to me on OMP. Some are more active modeling than others for various reasons. Often it is because they also attend school, work additional jobs or have other personal commitments. Each of these models has differing expectations from modeling. Some of them hope it will be their full time career, while others want it as part time income or as a creative outlet. Obviously these and other factors affect the decisions the models make about the offers they receive. They are not all motivated by the same things just as all photographers are not motivated by the same things. As a photographer my motivation comes from capturing some part of life in my work. It does not need to always be a model, it can be a building, the sky, an animal, anything will do really, I just love to shoot. I set out to every time I pick up my camera to learn something new about my art and to improve my skills. I do not claim to be the best photography around but I love what I do. I look at the work of fellow photographers such as Israel Colon or Mark Alan as well as others and I am challenged to push myself to do the best I can. Will my work ever look like theirs? No but that is not my goal, my goal is to do my work the best I can. If you do not have a passion for what you do should you really be doing it? Well there are two things in my life that I can say without any doubt I have a passion for. The first is photography and the second is helping the models that put their trust in me. I know there are people on OMP and may be some on this site that want to judge me because I am a Model Manager. You have had a bad experience with contacting a model linked to someone (Photographer, Model Manager, or possibly an agency) and now you think everyone that sets out to manage models is the same. Well I have contacted models that are linked to someone only to never hear back or just as Zero Dean stated get a response saying the model wants outrageous rates for a shoot (fashion, swimwear, it doesnt matter) when the model has family snapshots or web cam pics for a portfolio. So I know the frustration many of you have encountered. This industry is challenging enough without making assumptions. If we go that route all models could assume that every photographer is only here to hit on them, wants to shoot porn etc or as photographers we could assume that all models are flaky and lack any commitment to their work. Well I know enough photographers including myself that take professionalism seriously and I have worked with some terrific models that are far from being flakes and are some of the most committed people I know. So if you want to judge me or the models that are linked to me on OMP based on experiences you have had with others I cannot change that and I would prefer to use the time and effort it would take shooting or working to make my agency one that models and legitimate photographers can all benefit from. For the record, I do not block my models from getting their offers and they each make the decision on which offers to accept and which to decline. Do I advise them if I feel some thing would be good or bad for their career or if I feel there is a safety concern? Yes and I will not apologize for wanting to keep these young women safe. It is not only because it is part of my job, but I do not want to see anything bad happen to them. If someone contacts my agency or one of my models with a legitimate offer and treats the model with respect they will get a reply. If the model chooses to accept the offer great but if they decline it is within their rights to do just that. If one of my models asks me to respond to am email I will do so and if they ask me to decline an offer, the photographer will get a professional email thanking them but declining. This very well could be an issue that will never be resolved but I think it would be shallow minded to make assumptions that all models, photographers, Make up artist or even Model Managers are all the same. My models are with me because they choose to be and whether they know it or not their success is what keeps me going every day and helps me tolerate the negative things I hear from those that want to group me in with the wrong people. I joined Model Mayhem because it seemed like a positive place where everyone has an opportunity to support each other and have fun. In fact since joining I have written both models and photographers to praise their work. We dont all have to agree on every issue, see every shot the same way or have the same opinion on every issue, just think how boring that could be. But I hope that Model Mayhem can stay clear of the petty jealousy and childish games that some choose to partake in. I wish you all the best in what you do. May you get the respect you give and see beyond the walls you feel limit you! Apr 26 05 07:06 pm Link Some are good-some are bad-life sucks and life is great!! This site is great!! Apr 26 05 07:09 pm Link In my area, a lot of the girls on OMP are "managed" by their photographer, and they've never ever worked with anyone else, and likely never will. Email's to them thru OMP never get answered. I know that in some of those cases, the model's OMP email is actually the photographers, maybe in all cases, I don't know. These photographers are very possessive....don't know why. Maybe I"m not a good enough photographer to work with "their" models? Maybe they put the OMP profile up as an ego boost to their model (and in one case, his girlfriend who never shoots with anyone else). I have been asked by 2 model's I've photographed, to be their OMP manager, and reluctantly, I agreed, but only under the conditions that they answer their own email's and make their own decisions on offers from other photographers. Both of the model's update their own OMP sites and have worked with other photographers, which I encourage. It seems I"m one of the few who do this, in my area of the country. Apr 26 05 07:35 pm Link Posted by Aperture Photographics: That's exactly how I managed my models. I don't manage any models anymore though. I just got tired of hearing it from photographers always blaming me for the model's actions, or may I say, non actions. Apr 26 05 07:37 pm Link Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *: Posted by MGAphoto (ANT): Well, maybe that's why managers don't give me problems eh? I've also worked with models whom have "managers", whom I never worked with in my life. I've had managers asking if I could shoot thier models of whom they manage. This must mean something right? Maybe you're not offering something that's in the models best interest? LOL the funny thing is that she contacted me after that final e-mail where I blamed the manager, was it just a coincidence? Apr 26 05 08:25 pm Link Posted by MGAphoto (ANT): Who knows? Who cares? Also this isn't just about me and managers when 90% of photographers can't stand them as well! And why do photographers hate them? Is it an insult when a model doesn't work with a photographer and his Godly camera? It doesn't bother me if a model has a manager or not. If they want to work with me, fine. If not, oh wells. Life goes on. There are plenty of models out there. There is always a replacement. There is just a big difference in professionalism between an agency or manager licensed by the State than by guys who "manage" girls on the internet. Yeah there is, but what's your point? Plus if most of these photographers who "manage" models were better at what they did then they wouldn't have time for this! Do you speak from experience? Apr 26 05 08:29 pm Link Posted by Aperture Photographics: I'm listed as a "manager" for 3 to 4 models on OMP right now. It is very much exactly how you are doing it and why. They asked me to help them, and I do so without charging for the service. As a listed manager of a model on OMP, we do not get to see the response that a model makes to any of teh e-mails we both get. She and I talk about the inquires, but if a reply does not go out, don't blame the manager in every case. Many of the models I know who are listed on OMP are sick and tired of the jerks in the "Adult" business who fail to read the profile of those models who will NOT do those kind of shoots. I'm more or less a buffer for the models I work with who do not like getting harrassed without a witness who can at least give more backing in cases of harassment. my 2 cents! Apr 26 05 08:53 pm Link I just recently started "managing" a model on there and only do so for the simple reason it is easier for me to edit and post images for her than it is to try and walk her thru it. I do not go thru her emails unless she asks me to. Only 1 time have I actually responded to an email sent to her and it was after she asked me to. A beginner photographer, no photos on his profile not only wanted to shoot her he wanted to take over as her manager charging 20%. Funniest part of it at first he didnt even want to shoot with her TFP he wanted her to pay him then changed his mind claiming he would shoot TFP if she agreed to sign with him. I know there are several profiles that the models do not even know they are on there. A good friend set up an account on there only to have it deleted because someone reported she had multiple accounts. Turns out a photographer she had shot with 1 time 2 years prior and avoided ever since added a profile in her name to promote himself nothing more. No telling how many offers she had missed out on because he chunked mail directly into the trash. That is why if a model has a second way of being contacted I always do it thru their website or other location over omp. It doesn't insure anymore that a model will recieve any email, but at least it insures I have done everything I can. Apr 26 05 10:59 pm Link Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *: Posted by MGAphoto (ANT): Who knows? Who cares? Also this isn't just about me and managers when 90% of photographers can't stand them as well! And why do photographers hate them? Is it an insult when a model doesn't work with a photographer and his Godly camera? It doesn't bother me if a model has a manager or not. If they want to work with me, fine. If not, oh wells. Life goes on. There are plenty of models out there. There is always a replacement. There is just a big difference in professionalism between an agency or manager licensed by the State than by guys who "manage" girls on the internet. Yeah there is, but what's your point? Plus if most of these photographers who "manage" models were better at what they did then they wouldn't have time for this! Do you speak from experience? Hey your the one who brought your model up in the first place so you must care. Apr 27 05 12:26 am Link Posted by (MGAphoto) ANT: Actually, I don't. I brought it up because we are on the subject of managers. There are a lot of reasons for the dislike of the photographers who want to be "managers" but for me the main reason I don't like them is the fact they just hurt that model. Agencies don't sit around and work when they want to with a model, they are on it 24/7 and not just posting images on various websites hoping for a small bite. But how does this effect you? Some people should just mind thier own business. Sorry but I don't get your last question since I don't try and manage any models. If you are asking whether I am busy with work, I have a decent amount of things going on and I wouldn't be able to help out a girl like a real agency or manager. Why is your opinion "if photographers were better at what they did"? Apr 27 05 06:59 am Link Posted by (MGAphoto) ANT: I don't deal with any model who expects me to talk to their "manager." These are [allegedly] adult women who suddenly need some guy [it's always a guy] to do their talking/thinking for them. Who needs that? How can I expect a model to be creative and intelligent when she can't even answer her own email? Did i miss a memo here or something? Apr 27 05 07:08 am Link Posted by Brian Kim: If the girl calls OMP they will remove her profile. OMP will only list a model's profile with her consent. If she wants it removed they will remove it. She has final say. Apr 27 05 09:13 am Link A quote (I don't know who in this forum said this): " ... Also this isn't just about me and managers when 90% of photographers can't stand them as well! There is just a big difference in professionalism between an agency or manager licensed by the State than by guys who "manage" girls on the internet." ************************************************** I personally don't favor "managers" (we'll say I had a bad experience and leave it at that), but I must ask..."How can one make a statement saying '90% of photographers' don't like them?" I am curious... Do you happen to know 90% of the world's photographers? How can you speak on their behalf?" If you do know this many photographers, I really need to network with you... Apr 27 05 09:24 am Link Wow, so many opinions on such a touchy subject. Now, to add fuel to the fire... In the original post, I tend to agree. If I email a model and get no response, and she later responds to an ad, then I still will not deal with her. First, She is the model. If she has a manager he should ahve responded to the email to say, thanks for your interest, but no thanks, and he should have responded to the ad. Models that have managers have to let the manager manage. If their manager sucks, then it is there fault. Of the models on OMP I manage (and I use that term only in the OMP sense, because in general, I simply weed out the crap for them) 1 has become inactive, 2 simply can not get their act together, 1 has a great potential if she was here, and not in Romania. 2 others I assist but are not linked. Only the Romanian girl had an OMP profile to start. I created the other three profiles at the model's behest. But again, It is all about what the model wants and expects, and how she wants to be presented to the modeling world. As for greedy managers, They should all rot. I have never charged the girls I manage a percentage. I do it because they needed the help, not to make a living off of them. As for making money off of it. My hopes is that once each is established, I can add them to our Model Sites (we design and host model marketing sites) and will make my money off of there. Even then, My Company get all ad revenue, and we split sales revenue (for posters / calendars / etc..) 50/50 with the models. Apr 27 05 09:28 am Link |
