markEdwardPhoto wrote:
Your portfolio is sacred ground. It is the one spot where everyone sees your 'Best' work possible. Don't fill it full of mediocre or crappy photos.

Your portfolio is not designed to put test shots in. It is much better to put one great image in your port then five average images. You portfolio is only as good as your weakest image.

Just because you did a photoshoot doesn't mean you should put the images in your portfolio. If the images from you latest does not beat out your best already, then don't put it in.


M

Amen.

The most sound advice I have seen posted.

Stevens Photography wrote:
Do not post repetitive photos.  For example, one shot of you in the red top with the blue pants is, usually, enough.

That is my favourite thing to do though!

How else am I supposed to fill all those slots?

(There's some good advice here BTW... I'm just tired and being a smartass.)

Nytevision wrote:

That is my favourite thing to do though!

How else am I supposed to fill all those slots?

(There's some good advice here BTW... I'm just tired and being a smartass.)

No problem--it wasn't mean spirited at all.

Stevens Photography wrote:
No problem--it wasn't mean spirited at all.

But... But. I can be!

All jokes aside, I'd like to see something like this in the newbies forum as a sticky post rather than in general discussion. Afterall, aren't they the folks that could do with some sound advice such as this?

A lot of people join up here with good intentions and would probably have a more encouraging start if they could read this sort of thing straight out of the gate rather than when they go trauling the forums for sympathy because they've had a bad experience.

Nytevision wrote:
But... But. I can be!

All jokes aside, I'd like to see something like this in the newbies forum as a sticky post rather than in general discussion. Afterall, aren't they the folks that could do with some sound advice such as this?

A lot of people join up here with good intentions and would probably have a more encouraging start if they could read this sort of thing straight out of the gate rather than when they go trauling the forums for sympathy because they've had a bad experience.

Good idea.  Feel free to copy it and post it elsewhere, as I am happy to see it distributed.  If you do so, and I encourage you, then giving credit to the source is a proper thing to do.

Lapis wrote:
Yeah, but crappy images will unfortunately get you work with GWC's too intimidated by 'real models' to have the guts to take their pictures.

Hmmmm, there has been some good advice and comments in this thread, but you have raised a good point.  Models need to decide if they want to market to photographers or GWC's.  If you want the former, you should look good in yoru pictures.  If you want the latter, a lot of portfolios are on target.

But there is one flaw in your logic.  I am intimidated by everyone!

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:

Hmmmm, there has been some good advice and comments in this thread, but you have raised a good point.  Models need to decide if they want to market to photographers or GWC's.  If you want the former, you should look good in yoru pictures.  If you want the latter, a lot of portfolios are on target.

I think it goes beyond that--even into the realm of mainstream work.

Ultimately a portfolio is not designed to show off one's best work.  A portfolio is designed to get more work.  In most cases, there's a lot of overlap, but if your goal is commercial work, amazing artistic photos aren't going to help. 

"Best" doesn't always mean "prettiest" or even "most exciting".  Sometimes, to get the job, "best" can be fairly boring.

Star wrote:
I however many times do put up multiple shots, or test shots. For a time. Later they whittle themselves down. I use this site as a test market to see what people do and don't respond to. If it has been a month and an image only has one or two comments it goes down.

What is great about this site is a chance to experiment with new images, new ways of showing them. Don't be afraid to put up "crap." Just don't leave it up ok?

Star

Star, I agree.  I think it's a great way to get a test audience to see what gets the largest response - either views or comments. Not necessarily the same.

markEdwardPhoto wrote:
Girls/Guys,

If you are actually serious about this industry....

Your portfolio is sacred ground. It is the one spot where everyone sees your 'Best' work possible. Don't fill it full of mediocre or crappy photos.

Look at some of the best portfolio here and on other sites. Take the great stuff and try to match its quality. You will not attract any attention to yourself with average or below average images.

Your portfolio is not designed to put test shots in. It is much better to put one great image in your port then five average images. You portfolio is only as good as your weakest image.

So....

1. Visualize a great idea
2. Support with clothes
3. Use a make up artist
4. Find the best photographer/model you can, one that has a great portfolio too!

Just because you did a photoshoot doesn't mean you should put the images in your portfolio. If the images from you latest does not beat out your best already, then don't put it in.


M

These words are wisdom.  (You can see my portfolio at www.SmartAz-Photo.com.)  I feel that it's important to get an image that represents an idea or category and you should ALWAYS be looking to replace those images — not just with more current images, but with BETTER images.  ALWAYS strive to improve.

And for gawd's sake stop calling your porfolio a "port"!  If you want to show me your "port" I will want to show you my "starboard."  In more than twenty years, I've never had a photo editor or art director ax to see my port.  They've always wanted to see a portfolio.  Be careful of Model Mayhemisms.

Tony

Star wrote:
I however many times do put up multiple shots, or test shots. For a time. Later they whittle themselves down. I use this site as a test market to see what people do and don't respond to. If it has been a month and an image only has one or two comments it goes down.

What is great about this site is a chance to experiment with new images, new ways of showing them. Don't be afraid to put up "crap." Just don't leave it up ok?

Star

I agree...this is a great way to judge and delete the photos that would go in an actual "print portfolio"...

Lapis wrote:
Yeah, but crappy images will unfortunately get you work with GWC's too intimidated by 'real models' to have the guts to take their pictures. Not to sound arrogant, but I have had more than one person I have found out will not work with me, even if they were to pay me (as they know I would not do tfp), because they were intimidated.

Then, they get on here and complain about flaky models. Oh well. Their ports are crappy too.

Hey!

I was not intimidated by your portfolio.

I was intimidated by your AWESOMENESS.

I know I suck, so why should I care that you already have better pictures than I can take?

M

Brian Diaz wrote:
"Best" doesn't always mean "prettiest" or even "most exciting".  Sometimes, to get the job, "best" can be fairly boring.

*begin tangent*

My office has about ten prints of my photography in it. I was talking to a co-worker of mine whose husband is a professional photographer and leads workshops about why I don't do workshops anymore - I have enough perfectly lit pictures of professional models that I didn't light, hire, style, or basically do anything but have the sense to frame the image properly. If I wanted to, I could make a portfolio that was pretty damn impressive with these shots.

The pictures in my office aren't my *most technically proficient.* The pictures in my office are my *favorites.* This is yet another potential meaning for "best."

*end tangent*

I have noticed that amateur/beginning models tend to confuse good images with pictures that show off some feature of theirs well, especially if it's one of their favorite personal attributes. Actual conversation:

Model: "This picture shows off my eyes so well, I love it."

Me: "Yes, you do have great eyes. However, they'd look even better in a picture with your skin properly retouched and without that big hotspot on your forehead."

Model: "Oh, yeah, I know, but my eyes look so pretty."

*argh*

Models, please don't do that.

M

StMarc wrote:
I have noticed that amateur/beginning models tend to confuse good images with pictures that show off some feature of theirs well, especially if it's one of their favorite personal attributes. Actual conversation:

Model: "This picture shows off my eyes so well, I love it."

Me: "Yes, you do have great eyes. However, they'd look even better in a picture with your skin properly retouched and without that big hotspot on your forehead."

Model: "Oh, yeah, I know, but my eyes look so pretty."

*argh*

Models, please don't do that.

Remember the model is trying to market her look, not your photography.  To an extent, flattering and good are synonymous for a model.

StMarc wrote:
Actual conversation:

Model: "This picture shows off my eyes so well, I love it."

Me: "Yes, you do have great eyes. However, they'd look even better in a picture with your skin properly retouched and without that big hotspot on your forehead."

Model: "Oh, yeah, I know, but my eyes look so pretty."

*argh*

Models, please don't do that.

M

Think about it, though: There was just a thread berating models for having the audacity to Photoshop images of themselves. If the photographer is too lazy and/or unskilled to do the Photoshop for her, she is not allowed to do it herself (and/or lacks the technical proficiency), and it's the only photo she has so far that does do even a remotely decent job of showcasing a feature she really likes and wants to get noticed, what exactly is she supposed to do? She's kind of up the creek, isn't she?

As for the main thrust of this thread: Many people don't know what makes an image "crappy" or "good." This includes models and photographers. So telling people off for having crappy images is pointless, because the ones that do have really bad ones don't know enough to know that they're bad, and will likely not listen if they are told. Such is life.

Maycuplover wrote:
...
Do NOT waste your time on a model that isn't A+ Agency status

MODELS

FYI~ Just because a photographer takes your picture does NOT mean you are a model. If you are not at least 5'8" & 110 Lbs or less you can FORGET about it... & still, If you have the face only a mother could love... FORGET about it!!! I would concider a backup plan & go to school in case (100% chance) you will NEVER make it.
...

In short, art models, glamour models, commercial models, and all other models who do not have the build or inclination to become high-fashion runway models do not count. Thank you for showing us all the light!

Stevens Photography wrote:
Excellent post, Mark.
At the risk of being long-winded and tangential to the thread topic, here is a page of generic "do's and don'ts" I put together for models.



•    Luck is where preparation meets opportunity.  Resolve to be “lucky!”
•    Have fun!
•    The person closest to you should be the most supportive of your modeling.

Be Smart:
•    Check references the first time you work with a photographer.  Do your homework!
•    If your gut isn’t comfortable for any reason, don’t book the shoot, or walk away.
•    Watch out for empty promises.  If it sounds too good to be true, it likely isn’t true!
•    Be prepared to leave, immediately, any shoot that the photographer insists you do something “out of bounds.”  This rarely happens; so, don’t be paranoid!
•    Shoot only with people who can help you to be better and-or to look better.  Avoid “GWCs.”
•    Replace good photos with better ones and the better ones with great ones.  Edit ruthlessly!
•    Strive for “stopper” shots—ones that make people stop and take long looks.
•    Only quality counts.  You are only as good as your worst photo.  Quantity fills shoeboxes.
•    Therefore, don’t shoot just for the sake of shooting.

Be Professional:
•    Attitude, personality, and camera presence are THE most important and separate “pretty girls” from professionals.
•    Project in front of the camera.
•    Have a diverse portfolio that emphasizes the types of modeling which you desire and at which you excel.
•    Have a “killer” headshot!  Makeup, hair, and lighting must be perfect.  Way too many models lack great headshots.
•    Do not post repetitive photos.  For example, one shot of you in the red top with the blue pants is, usually, enough.
•    Tailor your portfolio (both photos and narrative) to your audience and clients.  Leave out extraneous and irrelevant personal information.
•    Know what every shoot is about and for.
•    Know what is expected of you, for example, whether you will be doing your own hair and-or makeup.
•    Know what the compensation will be:  TFP/CD, tear sheet, paid, etc.

The Nitty-Gritty:
•    Show up and on time!
•    No-show, no-call are the bane of the business, and are the worst things you can do—labels you as a Flake!
•    Return emails and phone calls.
•    Lame excuses don’t cut it.  Photographers have heard them all—labels you as a Flake!
•    Arrogance and bitchiness get you nowhere.

Be Realistic:
•    Fashion modeling is reserved for the very young, very tall, and very thin.
•    Very few models make substantial sums of money, except top New York models and “adult” models.
•    The competition for good paying work is extreme, and it won’t come find you.  You have to work very hard to get the work.
•    Have a thick skin and be persistent.  Remember, the first “no,” is never the last “no.”

Great stuff - I'm having more fun then I've ever had in my life. Thanks to everyone!!

markEdwardPhoto wrote:
Girls/Guys,

Look at some of the best portfolio here and on other sites. Take the great stuff and try to match its quality. You will not attract any attention to yourself with average or below average images.

Just because you did a photoshoot doesn't mean you should put the images in your portfolio. If the images from you latest does not beat out your best already, then don't put it in.


M

couldnt have said it better myself (although, as youl see, im about to try) 

most art directors and photo editors are just like u and i, they get bored of looking at the same shit, specially 10 pictures from the same test. BOREDOM is what makes alot of them ruthless bastards who end up looking thru your book trying to find the problems in it, rather than the good shots in it, because it far more normal for them to see repetitive crap than beautiful, simple, quality images. if u want to impress them, start by saving them some of their precious time for one thing by cutting down your book, and show them images relevant to their job/market. i have hundreds of nude images, not one goes in any book i show to any fashion/beauty client, and i change my port to suit the client im seeing anyway, like taking edgier stuff out for commercial clients etc. it doesnt make u look better to have lots of stuff they dont wanna see, it just makes u look unprofessional!

apart from that, u must remember that every client u see has either just seen, or is about to see 10 more people that day, so u must cut the crap and just think about quality and the 'less is more' approach in order just to have them remember your good shots in amongst the hundreds theyl see that day......simple as that.


my rule is EVERY picture that i have to second guess or have any hesitation as to whether it should go in, doesnt.

Catriona wrote:
...
As for the main thrust of this thread: Many people don't know what makes an image "crappy" or "good." This includes models and photographers. So telling people off for having crappy images is pointless, because the ones that do have really bad ones don't know enough to know that they're bad, and will likely not listen if they are told. Such is life.

I have to agree with you here. There are many Model and Photographers who don't have a clue. They are just here to meet up and get some photos. The girls get some photos and the guy gets to hang with a cute girl. The each get somewhat what they want but the never get the best out of the shoot.

Editing the best images is very difficult. Ask any long-time pro about editing their portfolio and the will wince! I hate it! But, outside of taking the images it is the most important thing you can do is to edit out the worst and keep the best. You get attached to the image for all the wrong reasons. That is why some of us have other Pros or Mentors look at our books and images for advice.

M

markEdwardPhoto wrote:
Just because you did a photoshoot doesn't mean you should put the images in your portfolio. If the images from you latest does not beat out your best already, then don't put it in.


M

I agree. Kudos if you have 10 pages in your book filled with WOW pics but its silly if only like 5 of those pics are WOW and the rest suck.

ANNABELLA wrote:
And Models: Please, please, please ONLY shoot with good photographers or at least photographers who specialize in your kind of market.

But that's the thing: A number of models wouldn't know a "good" photographer if one hit them over the head with a telephoto lens. Remember that thread with the girl raving about how she's worked with such great photographers that now she's spoiled, and all of the pictures in her portfolio were cheezy over-Photoshopped "art" nudes and ugly cat bodypaint shots apparently taken in someone's living room? Yeah...if she thinks the people she's worked with are "great," imagine what a mere "good" photographer is to someone like her.

And the same goes for photographers as well... It seems like the more eager one is to recommend their services to newer models to "help their portfolios really stand out" (for $$$, of course), the more mediocre their work really is. I recall a psychology experiment where it was shown that the people who were most confident that they had done very well on a test were also the most likely to have failed miserably. A lot of people think they are far better than they are - and a lot of people with no taste will agree with them. Herein lies the problem.